The Nuge explodes

[WNYBuckHunter]

Bottom line is that it's tough to find anyone with no skeletons in their closet these days. Hey, so if a pedophile is pro gun, it's all good right?

The difference is, we arent talking about a pedophile, murderer or drug dealer Elmer. Having loose marital morals and making mistakes when one was young is no comparison to that kind of thing.

[Early]

This thread give new meaning to "Ad Nauseum"...This incessant rambling, like Nugent makes me want to puke!

[Grouse]

Thank you for playing.

[Doc]

The VOICE(s)...our Voice...is out there. Spoken by the Dads and Grandads that introduce kids to guns/shooting/hunting...Spoken by those many selfless volunteer Hunter Safety Instructors...Spoken by the Moms and Grandmas that cook and serve the game we bring home. These voices that support/protect our hunting/shooting heritage are not necessarily loud...are not profane...BUT THEY GET THE JOB DONE!!!

Make sure your voice is among them!

Ok, here is a prime example of one of the reasons why gun ownership is constantly gaining deeper restrictions and hunting has been showing a marked reduction in participation. It is this kind of naive failure to recognize the importance of individual advocates, and organized advocates or to understand the political nature of these issues. In fact, I noted the tell-tale conspicuous absence of any credit being given the NRA as a necessary and time proven asset in the maintenance of gun and hunting rights. Those who think that Dads and Grandads and shooting instructors are all that's needed also fail to see that we are in a very severe minority, and that much of our destiny is not in our hands. It is a closed loop mentality that does not understand that we have to reach out to voters who don't hunt or who don't have cast-in-concrete views on guns and hunting. Wake up people ..... the opposition is not making those kinds of rookie mistakes.

[dave6x6]

Doc, Thank you for solidifying my point. Even in my sleep and with my closed loop, naive mind i can see that Ted meets none of the criteria that you yourself are calling on us to do. And I quote, "reach out to voters who don't hunt or who don't have cast-in-concrete views on guns and hunting." Does He??

Edited May 14, 2012 by dave6x6

[Grouse]

Ted is a board member of the NRA, he's politically connected, he supports law enforcement, entertains the troops and knows the facts when he speaks. He meets most of the criteria Doc mentioned. You must be blinded by your bias.

He does reach voters who do not have cast in concrete views by going on TV interviews and talking about gun rights. People who listen to him, without letting their hatred kill their hearing, will learn from him and agree with him on the 2nd Amendment issues. Only a guy like Ted will get invited to speak on TV by the anti-gun media, because they are betting he will lose it and make a fool of himself. But most of the time they lose the bet and he makes them look foolish. The other times, it works to his advantage, because he gets ratings for those TV shows and they ask him to come back on and speak some more.

If not for him, the voters wouldn't be hearing anything positive about gun and hunting rights at all.

[dave6x6]

Well, Good debate. I'm sincerely glad we are all so passionate about this issue even if we disagree about how the message should be spread. I'm an eternal optimist when it comes to this issue and i believe good will triumph in the end. Thanks to all of you for doing what you can..

[growalot]

THE END

[nyantler]

By the way, most likely the reason that Selleck and others don't go out of their way to become active public advocates may just have something to do with the weird euphoria so many of us feel as we gleefully destroy our advocates.

I think this pretty much sums it up...Doc

[MountainHunter]

I think this pretty much sums it up...Doc

I am completely on board with the message, I am not at all on board with who is delivering it in the form of Ted Nugent.

If hunting and our second amendment rights are on the way to being a thing of the past it will not be as a result of the message it will be as a result as who we believed credible enough to deliver it.

We would gain a lot more respect from the general public if in a united way spoke out in dissaproval of Ted. Why quite a number of us will never see that or understand it has as much to do with why we may ultimately lose these rights/privileges as any thing.

We have clearly hitched our horse to the wrong wagon! But as long as Ted has a hot wife, a TV show and is quick to tell anyone who "is on the other side" to kiss his butt, all is good! Who cares about his past or his present for that matter! I am happy to take on any one who wants to discuss his indescretions (such a polite word!) point by point.

Who delivers the message does matter! Just saying, this isn't rocket science.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Scot

[Doc]

Look, If you want to go about the business of negotiating with some other (yet to be named) person with an adequate platform to reach both hunters and non-hunters, to put forth the pro-gun and pro-hunting message, have at it ........ and let us know how that works out for you. Last time I looked there were no takers for that activity. Or maybe you think we can counter the massive wall of celebrity antis out there with no rebuttal at all or perhaps a bunch of hunters politely discussing the issues among themselves in elegant politically correct language.

Let me change a few words in the last line of your reply: "Having someone to deliver the message does matter!" And as we kill off messengers one by one, finding someone to do that is becoming the rocket science part.

Wake up .... its a war out there and it's never a good idea to be shooting our own troops.

[MountainHunter]

We don't agree on this. Clearly. Our ability to influence is absolutley based on who is delivering the message. If Ted is influencing me negatively as a life time gun owner and hunter,NRA member,enrolled Republican,Conservative etc. what kind of influence do you believe he is having among those that don't have a similar belief or background?

Your attempt at making fun of me. elegant? Politically correct etc? Because I refuse to acknowledge a self confessed Draft Dodger and Multiple Game Law violater as my advocate for second amendment rights and hunting interests? Do you not see the Irony in this? The guy was to chicken ---- to fight for his country but now he is a Super Patriot who wants to be the voice of second amendment rights advocacy? Doesn't that strike you as ridiculous? He has two recent game law vioaltions and you are fine with him being the voice of us as hunters? Do you not attempt to follow the game laws when you go about your hunting activities? Why would you want someone to be your voice who is a known game law violator?

The irony of practically all of this would be comical if what was at stake wasn't so important to me. I guarantee if we collectively told Ted to take a hike there would be a much more suitable representaive to take the forefront. A void of that nature is always filled. I would rather have no representation than to have representation that is harming us.

[Paula]

i have too!

[MountainHunter]

While I as well as others have strong feelings about this topic, it doesn't get in the way of friendships or other positive communication.(for me at least)If someone is tired of this conversation don't read the comments. Move on. It always strikes me as funny that someone has had it with a conversation that takes place on an internet forum. I am pretty sure that no one is being forced to read any of it.

If Doc wanted to be really petty he could make the last comment and then lock the thread. I have Moderating privileges on another Hunting and Fishing Forum and I have always been tempted to do that but never have.

I will say I'm done on this topic unless someone says "Thank God" or asks me a specific question, or isn't really clear on where I stand on it.

[KenAxe-7]

who farted?

:blink: :blink: :blink:

[growalot]

So I thought you guys might find this interesting...

by Schmidt » Mon May 14, 2012 9:29 pm

OK, guys, here is your chance to take this conversation to the next level. We will be hosting Ted Nugent LIVE on this website Wednesday from noon to 1 p.m. (CST). Here is your chance to ask him all of the questions you have been wanting answers to. If you want to submit a question, send it directly to me at [email protected].

Don't miss it: This is going to be a great show.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-talk-now

[Doc]

I understand that there are some who choose to focus on peripheral issues regarding this guy. I try not to get all tangled up in those things and rather focus on how I can use a resource in this battle for gun rights and hunting issues. I see nothing useful in crucifying those that speak out for those issues that are important to me. As I said there is nothing honorable or useful or even sensible in shooting our own troops and then somehow expecting to win the war.

[MountainHunter]

Lecture by John Edwards tonight on how to be a Great Husband. Who is attending?

Keep drinking the Kool aide!

[MountainHunter]

Acknowledging the truth is always honorable, ignoring it because you believe it serves your purposes, not so much!

[Grouse]

Just thought I'd add this to the fray..

http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/133705312831uyu6vffjy

Nugent Headlines New Web Show

IOLA, WI - Longtime hunter, outspoken conservationist and legendary rock star Ted Nugent will be the first guest on Wednesday's inaugural "Deer Talk Now," a live talk show about whitetail deer from Deer & Deer Hunting.

Nugent has hunted for more than 50 years throughout the United States and Canada for whitetail deer, bear, wild boar and other species.

Deer Talk Now will air each Wednesday at 12 p.m. (CST), hosted by Brad Rucks and Dan Schmidt, editor of Deer & Deer Hunting magazine. Deer Talk Now will feature special guests, questions from viewers and discussions about new hunting gear, habitat, hunting tactics, deer biology, hunter ethics, issues and more.

Nugent's deep passion for hunting and the outdoors along with his outspoken nature have combined to place him at the forefront of the hunting public. Some appreciate that and others do not, but Nugent never sways from his strong convictions.

"My critics are mostly jealous because I am my own boss and have created an amazing quality of life for my family and myself through incredible hard work and dedication," Nugent told Deer & Deer Hunting. "You find someone who has a problem with me and your are looking at an ignorant, cheap person.

"My supporters are legion, and the finest Americans there are. I am constantly invited to take terminally ill children on their last hunts, and to host the heroic wounded warriors of the U.S. military on hunting trips around the world. The absolute best of the best are on my side, so my detractors are exposed for the fools that they are. I couldn't feel better about my real reputation and position in life."

Originally from Detroit, Nugent's vivid stage presentation and memorable guitar talents earned him the nickname "Motor City Madman." For more than five decades he's garnered multi-platinum hits and worldwide fame starting with the Amboy Dukes, following on through his successful solo career and then in the 1990s with Damn Yankees.

Nugent has released more than 35 albums since 1967 and sold more than 40 million albums worldwide. He schedules his tour dates for spring and summer, often performing for military personnel, but leaves autumn and winter open for hunting. Nugent currently is beginning his 53rd tour and will be performing throughout the United States this summer.

For more information on "Deer Talk Now," please go to www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-talk-now

About Deer & Deer Hunting

Deer and Deer Hunting gives outdoor enthusiasts who hunt whitetail deer must-know information, from deer behavior to rut predictions. The in-house editorial staff and freelance contributors are the nation's top experts, helping both beginning sportsmen and sportswomen and seasoned veterans alike learn more about the wild game they pursue. The brand's success spawned one of the most-watched outdoors shows on television, Deer & Deer Hunting TV, aired on NBC Sports Outdoors. In addition to two new shows, Land of Whitetail aired on The Pursuit Channel and Destination Whitetail airing this June on Sportsman Channel, Deer and Deer Hunting also produces groundbreaking software programs, numerous books and countless educational media.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Grouse

[MountainHunter]

What value do you put on your integrity? He can't acknowledge the truth so he has to spin it to makes those that hold him accountable for his laundry list of indescretions as "ignorant or jealous".

Those things don't ring true for me at all. I just have no respect for him.

When he speaks about this great life for his family, which one of the few is he referring to?

The best defense is in this case in my opinion is a dishonest offense.

The Kool Aide is in aisle 5.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Lecture by John Edwards tonight on how to be a Great Husband. Who is attending?

Keep drinking the Kool aide!

Apples and Oranges. Ted is not a pro2A that works to take our rights away behind closed doors.

[Grouse]

Scot, you seem to focus totally on the negative, while ignoring all of the positive accomplishments the man can point to in his life. You're right about his past, but that is in the past. Many rich and famous people have sordid backgrounds they aren't proud of, but that doesn't stop a lot of people from supporting and defending them.

If you objectively weigh all of Ted's faults and disadvantages against all of his positives and advantages, you have to find there is a lot more on the positive side of the ledger than on the negative side. And he can point to quite a few supporters from all walks of life when asked to do so. Much of the general public is wiling to forgive past indiscretions based on what a person is doing today. I believe that is a better way to look at the man.

Can you honestly tell me your own past life is squeaky clean and there are no skeletons in your closet? Most people cannot, and that's OK, as long as they have learned from the past, become a better person and moved forward. That's what most of the general public wants to see and is proud to support. A man who fought his demons and won, is far more respectable than a man who never had to fight any, or a man who fought and lost. As Charlie Sheen (who has many fans, though I don't know why) would say, "Winning is everything", and it would be hard to look at Ted's current position in life and say he isnt a winner.

[MountainHunter]

Grouse I respect your diplomacy and the forgiveness in your heart. I just don't agree. I can forgive and look past most indescretions on anyone's part if I believe they have come clean and are not repeating the same behaviors.

In my opinion Ted continues to spin his indescretions in a way that i do not believe to be honest and these are recent events not things in his past. This Alaska Game law violation is a perfect example. I can provide link after link of the accounts of what happened there. All of these coming from direct interviews from Ted and they vary incredibly. He also has the audacity to suggest that "they were out to get him" as if he hadn't committed the violation. He not only did it he did it on film. That kind of makes it easy for them to prosecute it successfully. No conspiracy there he committed an illegal act on film. He also indicated that the law was obscure. That is entirely untrue which I can document for anyone who cares to see it. Page 25 in the Alaskan Hunting and Fishing regulations high lighted in Yellow with the heading on the top of the page in bold saying Important Information for all Bear Hunters.

Yet the spin continues and so many people are accepting of it.

As I aluded to earlier I can have differences in opinion with people and still not let it get between friendships. I respect everyones right to their own opinions and for them to express those opinions.

With Ted my opinion is that he hasn't come clean in many areas and he continues to perpetuate things that are untrue in regard to how he is being singled out. These things prevent me from being able to support him.

I support the issues but will not support him. Last night while speaking to a hunting and fishing friend I was told that James Earl Jones was at an NRA banquet that I had recently attended in Fishkill a couple of weeks ago. Another celebrity NRA member and seemingly a very decent man,at least from his public persona.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Scot

[Grouse]

I didn't even know Jones was an NRA member. Too bad Jones hasn't taken on the mantle of 2nd Amendment and hunting advocate. He would be good. I suspect he feels it wouldn't be worth the cost. Nobody likes to have mud thrown at them all the time. Besides, it also invites heavy scrutiny into your past, and maybe he has a past he'd rather keep secret too.