Time to think orchards!

[G-Man]

So the local home depot has outstanding apple and pear trees this year completely Dormant ( they seem to get them down south usually and they are leafed out and get burned every year)  1 in plus trunk , container grown 6 to 7 ft tall limbed trees for 39.95..  picked up a dozen to start a new orchard.   Best trees I've seen at that price in years.. I'm thinking they are mis priced as 3 to 4 ft bareroot  are that price from most nurseries.  Will be checking other local store to see what they have coming in.that is 4ft roll of fence next to them for size comparison

[G-Man]

So 6 pear and 12 apples ready to go once the snow melts away this week

[knehrke]

Good looking trees, but I'd like to know what sort of rootstock they were grown on. It can make a big difference, of course, both in terms of dwarf, semi-dwarf, etc...but also soil compatibility and staking needs. 

Unsolicited advice: when I plant apples, I try to prune the branches so that the leaf mass doesn't overwhelm the root system. I also prefer my scaffolding limbs to be at least 5' off the ground, so the lower branches are the first to go. And the best favor you can do the trees is to protect them. 18" of aluminum (not plastic) screen double wrapped around the base, buried an inch into the soil, and stapled to prevent rodent damage. 5' high welded wire fencing with three stakes attached using zip ties - connect the ends of the wire by bending a couple free pieces over the other end to make it easy to disconnect when you need to prune or clean out inside the fencing. 3' square of ground cloth covered with stone to prevent weeds. You may want to consider protection against sun scalding this time of year, too, although the screen has worked well for me with young trees.

This has been a failsafe method for me, with a hundred or so trees over two properties. Good luck!

[G-Man]

4 minutes ago, knehrke said:

Good looking trees, but I'd like to know what sort of rootstock they were grown on. It can make a big difference, of course, both in terms of dwarf, semi-dwarf, etc...but also soil compatibility and staking needs. 

Unsolicited advice: when I plant apples, I try to prune the branches so that the leaf mass doesn't overwhelm the root system. I also prefer my scaffolding limbs to be at least 5' off the ground, so the lower branches are the first to go. And the best favor you can do the trees is to protect them. 18" of aluminum (not plastic) screen double wrapped around the base, buried an inch into the soil, and stapled to prevent rodent damage. 5' high welded wire fencing with three stakes attached using zip ties - connect the ends of the wire by bending a couple free pieces over the other end to make it easy to disconnect when you need to prune or clean out inside the fencing. 3' square of ground cloth covered with stone to prevent weeds. You may want to consider protection against sun scalding this time of year, too, although the screen has worked well for me with young trees.

This has been a failsafe method for me, with a hundred or so trees over two properties. Good luck!

I always prune the lower 5 ft of limbs off these are all semi dwarf. And I run 4 or 5 ft 2xr welded fence to protect trunks. I want to be able to shoot under these trees as well as mow.  I use weed mats or  remove all grasses in fall from trunks. This will be 4th orchard I've started on my place.  The oldest us 25 years  old .. the only issue I've had is bears pulling trees over when two to 3 inches in diameter..  I was able to pull them back up and restake.  I also leave the fencing on til over 5 inches as it protects from  rubbing. 

[knehrke]

Awesome! It sounds like you've done it right for a long time. Are the older trees semi-dwarf, too? I've always stuck with semi-standard because I want my grandkids to enjoy the fruit of my labor - any issue with trees aging out? I know that dwarf trees don't live long, but they're more like vines than trees IMHO.

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, knehrke said:

Awesome! It sounds like you've done it right for a long time. Are the older trees semi-dwarf, too? I've always stuck with semi-standard because I want my grandkids to enjoy the fruit of my labor - any issue with trees aging out? I know that dwarf trees don't live long, but they're more like vines than trees IMHO.

I grafted a few antique varieties from my grandparents orchards this trees are 100 plus years old and are declining rapidly..  those are only trees I've " lost"  . Grafts are doing well and are almost 5ft tall now and starting to branch.  I'll be the only one I know with Rhode island greenings,  and wealthy apples around as both haven't been grown commercially for decades. 

[Five Seasons]

planting for yourself to eat or for critters?

[G-Man]

48 minutes ago, Belo said:

planting for yourself to eat or for critters?

A couple will be added to my eating orchard , the rest will be a wild orchard for game. 

[Five Seasons]

7 minutes ago, G-Man said:

A couple will be added to my eating orchard , the rest will be a wild orchard for game. 

I have an old orchard i'm trying to keep on life support. The apples shouldn't be too hard but damn are peaches and plums a lost cause.

Good luck!

[G-Man]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

I have an old orchard i'm trying to keep on life support. The apples shouldn't be too hard but damn are peaches and plums a lost cause.

Good luck!

Grandparents use to have prune plums..  tried growing some , something in soil killed them.. black knot..  sad I  really liked them

[Five Seasons]

6 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Grandparents use to have prune plums..  tried growing some , something in soil killed them.. black knot..  sad I  really liked them

Yeah I have a dozen or so with black knot. I've read that the only thing I can do is prune it off and I'm not sure they would survive with how bad it is. 

[Farflung]

Knehrke had some good advice. The root stock is very important. A lot of the root stocks are not suitable for colder sites, especially the Dwarfs and Semi-dwarfs.  Also, I like to put some weed barrier cloth down to eliminate the grassy competition. 

I've had good luck with stock from St. Lawrence Nursery. They specialize in fruit and nut trees for very cold climates. Also have a lot of the older varieties.

[knehrke]

St. Lawrence is great, as is Cummings in Ithaca and Northern Whitetail Crabs in PA, but many of their most common varieties, not excluding heirlooms, are spoken for by this time of year.

From the sounds of it, I should be taking guidance from G-man! I've often played with the idea of grafting, and Cornell Cooperative Extension used to do a grafting class through the Rochester Civic Garden Center, but so far as I'm aware, the Center is now closed and I can't find anything else local. 

Our one property is blessed with 54 mature wild apple trees, at last count, some of which are gems and others that are pure spitters. I'm still learning how to prune these mature trees - I don't even try with several where the canopy is simply daunting - and so far I've managed not to kill them. Whether I've done any good or not, well: a little column A, a little column B. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by knehrke

[G-Man]

Got 11 in the ground and fenced... 

[Farflung]

Knehrke- I helped put on a couple of grafting workshops years ago. I learned a lot. Had a research "pomologist" from Cornell (Geneva experiment station actually) come up and he did a hands on thing with a mixed batch of DEC and private landowners and wildlife managers.

I did it for several years after with pretty good luck. I just use cleft grafts now. Two take aways is to keep your fingers off of any of the cut surfaces and to put the scion wood in at a angle, rather than trying to  put the scion perfectly aligned with  the phloem of the tree. Make your cut so that it is tapered so that there is  pressure on the phloem of the  scion. put two scions per cleft graft and cut the weaker one of after the second year. Don't put the cleft grafts where  a bird is deciding that it would make a good perch (voice of experience there!)

[virgil]

How long until the newly planted trees are productive?

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, virgil said:

How long until the newly planted trees are productive?

These trees are old enough to try and produce fruit this year but I'll knock the blossoms off so they put energy into roots,

I expect most will produce next year for sure. These are by far biggest trees I've seen at that price and are 2 to 3x the size of one's I planted 3 years ago.

[suburbanfarmer]

7 hours ago, G-Man said:

These trees are old enough to try and produce fruit this year but I'll knock the blossoms off so they put energy into roots,

I expect most will produce next year for sure. These are by far biggest trees I've seen at that price and are 2 to 3x the size of one's I planted 3 years ago.

I checked few stores near here and their garden center was not even open yet. You certainly got lucky

Edited March 18, 2022 by suburbanfarmer

[Nomad]

Wow , you guys sure put a lot of time and money into shooting a deer or two .

[G-Man]

38 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Wow , you guys sure put a lot of time and money into shooting a deer or two .

Honestly cash wise, 700 to 1000 a year for seed and trees, fertilizer..  this year will be few hundred more  for gas , plowing ,planting spraying.  And trail maintenance.. 

Add in stand replacement,  fixing cables straps..  yep its expensive. But   taking 18 to  20 deer a year  is only possible with management of property..    labor hours doing all the plot work and tsi would be int the thousands... deer hunting and prep is truly 24/7 365.... 

[G-Man]

52 minutes ago, suburbanfarmer said:

I checked few stores near here and their garden center was not even open yet. You certainly got lucky

Just had friend pick up trees in Niagara County near Erie county border and he said trees were same quality  he picked  up half a dozen. 

[suburbanfarmer]

8 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Just had friend pick up trees in Niagara County near Erie county border and he said trees were same quality  he picked  up half a dozen. 

 

Heading over to Rochester tomorrow morning, will see if any stores over there got any good trees.

[Dinsdale]

55 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Wow , you guys sure put a lot of time and money into shooting a deer or two .

Its a hobby like any other, its not always measured on a return of investment.

Ive raised beef/pigs/chickens, done maple syrup on a serious scale, restored old tractors, owned no less then 200 rifles most never killed anything but paper, learned to weld, and hunted a fair bit all over the place.

In the last month bought 2 fun cars, one old to mess with and one new so i can just drive it.

Dont care if how much time ive spent on any of it, its not the point.