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Where I hunt I never saw a bear in 12 years, saw very little sign of them on rare occasions. Now the past 3-4 years, I have seen more bear than deer! It's getting bad. Look at my trailcam pic to the left, that bear smacked my camera off the damn tree! I haven't shot any because its always been a sow and cubs. I was over a mile up into the woods hunting alone one day, I was hunting on the ground with a 30-30. I had 2 cubs come into view through the brush and start walking towards me. Now i'm thinking, okay, where is momma bear? The cubs get with in 20 feet and walk off to my right... Then all of a sudden momma bear comes out of the brush about 15 feet to my right. Shes already so close I dont want to scare her, she dont see me, but she is walking right towards me, I just keep perfectly still. She gets 8 feet away, so close I can smell her (I was downwind). She is standing on a downed log directly to my right. My eyes have been pinned to the right side of my head for so long looking at her they are starting to hurt. I think she cant see me, so I move my head about half an inch to the right and she looks right at me. Now we are staring at each other, 8 feet away, face to face. She looks at the ground, then looks back at me, then looks over at her cubs wandering off. Then she slowly just walks off... Raises her leg and takes a leak on a tree... Then shes out of sight. So then I can breathe again and I get up and use my boots, toe to toe, and count 8 steps from where I was sitting and the log she was standing on... Saw this video the other day too, thought it was pretty cool: This one is good too:

Id shoot em..and not care less who didnt like it

If I had a doe permit and he walked out behind a good doe...I'd shoot them both.

Lol me being young..whats that mean that i dont know as much as the next guy lol..im 22 and have allready been hunting for 10 years of my life..And me or anyone who taught me what i know have NEVER used a spot light it really dont make sense..plus if your doing it on somebody elses land whats the point,,not like you can hunt there anyway!!And if you read what i put i never said that if you do use a light that your jacking deer but on someone elses land,,in the dark,,and your spotlighing deer hmm i may not be a 60 year old genius but it dont make sense to me..Have you ever heard of the show "Smarter than a 5th grader"...

Lol i guess they better stay on your land hi beaming deer lol,,id be one mad dude if i seen someone spot lighting deer on my land..I have never myself heard of someone spot lighting a deer unless they are jacking it!!

" just happens to own the land" I pretty sure he doesn't just "happen" to own the land that you covet! It's his property, and his life, I say give the man some respect. If you want to spot deer I think you ought to do it on public land, your land, or land that you actually have the right to hunt.

I own/self employed contractor.On the Ridge construction is the company name.Nothing like being boss/employee i love it.

I know i would never have the opportunity to shoot it again.I would consider a 6pt a trophie right now.So i would shoot it and watch the glow on my kids faces when i hung it in my garage and let them take pics with it. Its funny how all these people that have the oportunities bash on the pewople that dont have them.Like they should just let it walk to let the neighbor shoot it and wait around for a bigger one.Hahaha.funny.

I find myself being more selective, but not this weekend! heeheehehehhee! Maybe we just suck at hunting?

I would shot a good sized doe over a 5 year old buck for meat and theres not to many big boys in the woods in my area any ways if you get a 3year old buck thats old for the 4o area Im not aginst shooting big bucks every one wants that buck of a life time

Thanks fellas I post story in harvest thread later today Just got to the barn with him

Nope, I honestly believe that there is no way you can have an effect on genetics in a wild herd of deer. It would take strict management and probably 2 or 3 human lifetimes of it to change the genetic makeup of an area's herd. Ill see if I can dig up some links to studies that show it. Its been proven that spikes can grow into very nice bucks if given age. If you want to shoot them, go for it. No matter what QDM principals I read about, discuss and learn, I am a firm believer in people shooting whatever legal deer they want, and having fun doing it within whatever legal means they choose to use.

I agree. Even living out where I do Ive had many years eating tag soup. Its cool though, I just enjoy getting out there and enjoying nature. Meat in the freezer is icing on the cake and a nice rack is some ice cream to go along with it lol.

Its easy to find on the net.I google it every time i forget the recipe.LOL You have to let it sit for 3 days with the cap loose. Keep it out of the sun. It will plug up the nozzle on a sprayer too. But works good. http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=629789

It's interesting how these topics keep coming up. Everybody seems to like these deals where they get an opportunity to brag to the world about this buck and that buck that they passed up and how they are a hunter of such high expertise that it is beneath them to harvest any buck that doesn't live up to this standard or that standard. It's kind of like some weird measuring stick that some people need to determine who is the great hunter and who is not..... lol. I find it all kind of silly, but am beginning to understand that it apparently is just human nature. Frankly, I could care less about what size buck anyone gets or how many inches it's rack measures. Who cares? Does it go into some records book? who cares? I don't own the book and it means absolutely nothing to me. Sure I admire a good buck with a jillion points, but I also recognize that 90.99% of the biggest bucks are more or less lucky accidents. So, if someone gets a super, multi-pointed buck ..... great! If someone shoots a fork .... good for them. Hell, if they get a doe, they will get a congratulations from me. And I won't waste one minute trying to preach to them how they should have let it pass or denigrating an achievement that they are obviously proud of. I think too many of us get all tangled up in that sort of ego-inflation at the expense of others. I want hunters to feel good about their successes rather than trying to pass judgement and make them wish they had never taken up hunting.

Shot at 300 today. took her forever to come in 20 yard shot 125 grain muzzy.

Seeing that I will be out of town on Friday, I would just like to say thank you to all the veterans and current service Men and women that is on this forum that has made personal sacrifices and has served our country. You are the reason that we are able to have this forum and the right to talk about guns, bows and hunting. Thank you and god bless you and your family's. :thankyou: :thankyou:

I'm wary of such statistics. I know that I've followed up on poorly gun shot deer (my own and of others) and was able to catch up with them and put them down for good. NO way I would have put them down for good if I was following them up with a bow in hand. So I think any statistic of greater recovery chances for the deer shot with a bow can be countered with better chances of a lethal follow-up shot with a gun.

i vented last year as well about all the lost deer threads also. i was a bit bummed to see so many deer lost in a matter of a weeks time. It does happen tho and i always wondered howmuch time was truly put forth in the recovery and also if it was a marginal shot take in hopes of killing that deer, who knows.... point is we dont know all the details 100% and in reality theres nothing i can do from behind a computer but lend advice and hope it hits home to the OP close enough for some advice to sink in for his next shot and recovery...

I would rather have confidence than ignorance anyday. If you read the orignal post as everyone else did you would see it has nothing to do with any other wepon besides bow.. Take the number of gun hunters and then take the number of bow hunters... well i think you can figure it from there. The bow and gun fight will go on forever.The way i see it is everyone has the same right to pick up and learn how to use a bow,gun,muzzle,crossbow as anyone else.If they cant figure one of them out,can't do much about that.Bow vs gun for wounded deer....easy answer!! I have no problem with any law or season for crossbow. I welcome it!! My choice will be to not waste my time and money unless they have their own season. Choice's...isn't it nice to be in the good ol usa!!!

Another tragedy unfolds . . . Teenage hunter in a tree stand in Minnesota sticks a loaded firearm between his legs apparently muzzle up and as he is taking off his jacket, the firearm discharges shooting him in the leg. No details on how he died. I guess he died from bleeding out? I feel bad for him and his family. At least this wasn't another hunter mistaking another person for wild game. Still very sad. Kid had his whole life ahead of him. http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/11/08/minn-teen-accidentally-shot-killed-self-hunting/

I think those guys are what 308 was referring to... I have to say i can understand in a way... I think most of you are hot over him badmouthing bowhunters... some of you have even said similar stuff here referring to gun hunters... He made an observation and pointed it out... yeah he went overboard... but he wasn;t far off base with his general observation about the number of lost animals... we are all good at trusting that just because fellas post here about how much they practice and how ethical they are... that they actually are what they say they are... my experience tells me that with all the practice that a lot of hunters do with their bows or guns...they still don't seem to make the right choices when it comes to actually firing those weapons... I know fellas that are crack shots at the range that still shoot at running deer in the brush, take shots just outside their comfort zones, and are a bit too anxious about killing a deer at all costs... so although you might not like how 308 said it.. you all know that some of what he says is true...

You are touching something , but I am not sure it is a nerve

I am as equal opportunity as anyone, probably more than most, I dislike everyone the same. "People are....", ....Lazy, Stupid, selfish, morons, slobs, disrespectful, ghey, poor sports, ignorant, pain in the asses. and you can substitute for " PEOPLE" any other term you want, ie, Black, White, City dweller, Logger, Farmer, Woman, Kid, Hound Hunter, Bowhunter, Fisherman, Feminist, Racist, Liberal...guides.... PEOPLE are all those things, a PERSON is not. I have guided full time year round for over 30 years, as did my father and his father and his father. One thing remains true and one thing only, people are easy to hate....a person is not. well that, and for enough money a guide can tolerate anyone. LOL. the OP is taking an emotion he or she has and is shotgunning a generalization out there to express it. I wont waste time trying to argue it, not until the OP says clearly what it is the issue is, I hear you saying" I hate when people wound and lose deer. I hate bowhunters because I think they do it most." If that is your statement? I will agree with the first part, especially now that leashed tracking dogs are wide spread in NY and are FREE to call and use. second statement? bowhunters wound and lose more deer than other hunters? the numbers simply are not there to back that up. Rifle season especially when there are doe tags, leads the way for unrecovered deer. Now let me ask the OP this; Do you think the deer hunter losing a deer means that deer is wasted? everything that eats meat will eat a dead deer. consider this. what happens to the 400 million animals hit and killed in the USA every year on the roads? University testing labs torture over and over then finally kill 100 million animals a year in the USA. I honestly ask why a comparebly tiny number of bowhunting lost deer ticks you off with 400 million animals hit on the roads per year and wasted and that doesnt bother you? 100 million animals having hairspray and gasoline sprayed in their eyes to see if it blinds them, dogs, cats, monkeys and rabbits being given cancer and birth defects doesnt bother you? the handful of deer lost to hunters but still part of the mountains ecology...that bothers you most? Boy, I wish I were you and a few deer being lost to hunters and eaten by eagles, coyotes, fox, bear, possums, coons, birds, owls, ravens, crows, mice, weasels, mink, fisher, bobcats, et als, was my main problem in life. I will make you a deal, get the UNiversities in the USA to stop torturing animals and I will make sure all hunters ahve the means to recover all wounded deer if fatally wounded.

I'm sure even a spike buck thinks he's a "booner" when there are no other bucks around! LOL

See I hold you with alot of respect for saying that. Most people would have enough nuts to say that. You know your limitations and that my friend makes you a better hunter.

Me personally, I won't bow hunt, cause I know I suck at it. and I'm not tracking a wounded deer 4 miles. I will cross bow hunt when the time comes, but regular bow, I'm not qualified, and I know it.