Doc

Do the Ozonics people have any published studies or tests? I am curious as to the methodology that people would suggest. What would prove the effectiveness conclusively? If you have deer consistently coming up to you from a downwind direction after enough trials, you might be able to declare success. If they consistently still get your scent and spook when coming in downwind, I suppose that tells you something too. I like your study so far.

If your dogs are completely out of your control then they have not been adequately trained in obedience. I owned dogs for most of my life, and one rule that I always enforced was that they come when I call them, and that technically put them always under my control (leash or no leash). If you don't even have that level of control over your dogs, you really have no business turning them loose on neighboring properties. You apparently are confused as to where your rights end and where your neighbor's begins. And so I repeat, there is no acceptable reason that your dogs or anyone else's dogs should be allowed to run free and uncontrolled on any property that they choose, I don't give a damn what activities they are engaged in. I have had experience with pet owners who thought it was a great idea to let their household pets run free. And of course those dogs decided (several times) that it would be fun to have a romp through our sheep taking enough hunks of meat out of each one to kill them or leave them in a condition where they had to be destroyed. Their owners also felt it was great for their dogs to run free and uncontrolled. Well, there were some other farmers that disagreed and the problem eventually was solved. But not until we were driven out of business by these free roaming dogs. I have also seen deer brought down by pets who had owners who decided that their pets should be allowed to "run free". It isn't a pretty or necessary sight to witness.

I suppose that if you had a motor added on to that walker, it would be illegal to shoot from it. But a little modification of that scabbard like turning it into a revolving turret, you would have one heck of a killing machine!

It sounds like the way they are approaching sports in school these days. It's meant to soothe everyone's self-esteem by making sure everyone gets a trophy. Isn't that nice ..... lol.

You just answered your own question. Just because you are hunting with dogs, that doesn't mean that your dogs are free to run completely out of control. YOU are responsible for your dog ..... period. You exercise that responsibility by training your animal to obey commands and to hunt specific target animals and it is your responsibility to ensure that you have permission to use other people's property for your hunting activities. It is not the random responsibility of all landowners to allow dogs or you to trespass without prior permission, and it doesn't matter what species you are trying to hunt. For some reason people assume that because they are hunting with dogs, they automatically have free reign to use everyone's property and have some unwritten right to everyone else's property. Well, you don't.

Dogs should not be allowed to run free under any circumstances. That is not responsible pet ownership.

I hunt deer ......bucks, does, big, little ..... using guns and bows. I don't hunt just for antlers, and I set my own challenges. And what I really hate is hunters that would put mandatory restrictions of all kinds, selfishly imposing their standards on all other hunters. All I ever here anymore is the constant calls for every perceived buck problem being solved by some kind of new restrictions. We are constantly driving hunters out of the activity with all the petty arguments and the constant search for heaping as many specialized regulations as possible in a quest to make the entire hunter population fall in line with the latest pop- management scheme. And all this is aimed at shrinking the available legal segment of the deer population just to make it easier for those that measure their hunting success by the number of inches of antler.

I can picture all kinds of hunter-friendly add-ons and accessories. How about a gun scabbard? And maybe some clamp-on gun rests. I think a rain-hood would be useful too. I can see a whole line of hunting accessories for some one to offer and get rich off of.

And that's why we need a blaze orange law. There really are people in the woods who seem to need protection from themselves.....lol. Probably the same kind of people who use their firearms to warn people off their land. There seems to be some pervasive contempt for the principles of safety that some people take a weird perverse pleasure in having. It's kind of like taking pride in defying safety. I don't really understand such attitudes, but having such people in the deer hunting woods may be yet another reason why the hunter numbers are on the decline.

Perhaps the publication editor or owner was the guy that was being written about ..... lol.

Depending on where you are hunting, there may come a time when you may be dependent on using your rifle for signaling. We don't go out expecting to get lost or hurt, in areas without accessible phone towers, but sometimes things don't go per plan. So, those people who seem to be packing more ammo than necessary might just be glad they have it some day.

There has been so many times that I have been made aware of a hunters presence simply because of a flash of orange. In almost every case, that orange alerted me that a hunter was coming my way long before I could even recognize them a person. I have also moved on from a stand location because that orange told me that we were hunting too close to each other to be a safe situation. That sort of thing happens all the time. But also, I have approached guys that were dressed in full camo and got right next to them before realizing there was somebody there. There is no doubt in my mind that hunter orange is a highly effective safety feature in gun season ..... Highly effective! There is no doubt in my mind that it is unreasonable to even question that. It is important to be seen by other hunters, and as far as I can imagine, there is no situation where the hunter orange is a liability unless you are a poacher or a trespasser. Will blaze orange stop bullets? ..... absolutely not, but the likelihood that it will keep that bullet from being launched in the first place is pretty darned high. No, blaze orange does not improve the mentality of anyone. It just gives them a chance of knowing there is a hunter over there. Nothing else in the woods can do that for you. No other safety feature can do this for you, and if you still get shot, then somebody should open an investigation as to whether it really is a homicide.

I've heard the same nonsense theorized about coyote introduction .... lol. And if anyone ever gets to display proof of such activities by the DEC, then by all means, lets see it. But if anyone is simply posing the theoretical possibility, I guess I won't get emotionally distraught like I have seen some people react .... lol.

Well, of course no one wants to see these kinds of stories, and for the most part most dogs are harmless lovable creatures and do not deserve destruction merely for romping through the woods. But I have seen another side of these pets when they are owned and handled irresponsibly. I have seen the results of dogs getting into sheep and running from one to another just doing enough damage to kill one before moving on to the next. I also have witnessed a deer torn apart by two dogs in our front yard until I broke up the carnage. I tracked the deer the following morning and found it dead, finally succumbing to dozens of bites to the flanks suffered over an obvious long distance. I performed a mercy killing on a buck that had huge chunks of meat torn out of its rump to the point where it couldn't even get up to escape. It was a pretty pathetic sight. I have heard people who were moving to the country thinking out loud about finally having a place where their dogs could run free. I have owned dogs, and so I feel as strongly as anyone about enjoying loving companion animals that are responsibly cared for and controlled. But I am also aware that not everyone accepts that responsibility. I'm not sure that any of that was the case in this situation, but I am just reminding everyone that pet ownership does carry some pretty heavy responsibility that I hope everyone is as passionate about as they are about this guy that in my opinion used very poor judgment. As important as it is to make an example of this guy, I also think that those that do not control their pets should be dealt with equally harshly.

It is strange how mountain lion topics can bring on such emotional responses. I have seen some responses that get downright personally offended that anyone would even raise the possibilities. I often wonder what causes that. I tend to have an open mind on the subject, understanding that the odds against local mountain lion observations (pictorial or other wise) are quite unlikely, but never impossible.

Ha-ha-ha ...... Typo! I'm old, but not that old.

Wait until the full reports come out that list the wounding incidents. I knew that we have been having it too easy for too long and too much was being made of the years when we have been able to brag about how safe recent years have been. It seems like maybe we have gotten a bit complacent.

Sometimes it takes a law to clearly make a statement about how important blaze orange is as a safety item. Leaving things as they are almost implies that the state thinks that not wearing blaze orange is ok with them which leaves all of their statements on the subject go over with just a wink and a nod, and no real commitment. Perhaps there is some merit to allowing Darwin's principles to take out these mental rejects. But that ignores the fact that someone is left behind to anguish over what amounts to "suicide by hunter".

You don't suppose that occasionally God finds himself on the side of the deer, do you?

Deer are not pheasants. I have never taken a running shot at a deer.....never. I don't criticize those who can successfully do so, but in my case I know better. As Clint Eastwood would say, A man has to know his limitations". Another benefit of still hunting, is that if you are truly trying to spot that tine-tip or tail flicker, or other telltale signs of deer, you get a very specific and detailed picture of everything that is in front of you. That includes deer as well as any source of potential danger ahead. When I come across another hunter, my focus immediately changes from deer hunting to watching what that other hunter is doing and I am in high alert defensive mode. But the point is that it should never be assume that a still-hunter is anymore at risk or poses anymore risk than somebody hunting in any other style. When I finally get off stand, nothing occurs that changes my attitude about safety.

From 1882 to 2010 I kept complete records of every hunting trip and every hunting trip for both bow and gun. I kept it in a huge Excel spreadsheet so I could do math analysis on where the deer were, what genders, dates, what stands, wind directions, wind speeds (in generic terms), temperatures (In generic terms), weather conditions (clear, rain, snow, overcast, etc).general areas (uphill, downhill, side hill), entry directions, exit directions, deer reactions, hunter reactions, results, hunting style (standing, still hunting, scouting). Actual headings: LOG NUMBER DATE LOCATION NUMBER OF DEER SIGHTED TIME WEATHER TEMP WIND DIR WIND VELOCITY ENTRY DIR EXIT DIR HUNTER ACTION RESULTS HNTG STYLE HUNTER BUCKS (QTY) DOES (QTY) UNIDENT IFIED (QTY) SAW A BUCK 0=NO 1=YES SAW A DOE 0=NO 1=YES SAW AN UNIDENT 0=NO 1=YES LOC CODE STAND NO CLOSEST STAND MODAY UPHILL DOWNHILL REMARKS YEAR from all this data, I could analyze what times of year that deer movement became concentrated in valley bottoms vs. hill tops, what stands were the most productive given specific weather and wind directions, What areas were traditionally rut areas. So I had 28 years of comprehensive data on the herd in my area. It also serves as a very detailed hunting diary. What was the down-side?.... the analysis side was good only for short numbers of years. Today, none of this hunting area looks anything like it did when the database began. Open fields have turned into brushlots and even young maple thickets. A major ice storm totally destroyed patterns and trails. There was no details of food source changes and availabilities. Land use has dramatically changed with the advent of mountain biking trails blanketing the state land parts of the hunting area. Hikers and biker have placed unrelenting spring, fall and summer pressure changing patterns and deer usage. The bottom line is that the longer you keep the base, the less predictive value that it has. But still it has great value for providing detailed memories of years of hunting. It was fun!

Something to think about when saying things like "always id your target and what is in the foreground and background". When clubs set up public shooting ranges, their interpretation of target id and background and foreground safety is to bulldoze up earthen backstops, and clear all vegetation and obstructions before and beyond the targets all the way to the earthen backstops. There is a defined shooting line and an area where no one should be when someone is ready to shoot. There is signage and sometimes even fencing in an effort to control human traffic to ensure that the shooters have damned good certainty that they really are sure of the target and safe visual conditions of the foreground and background. They truly understand and abide by those basic safety features before the first trigger is pulled there. Ok, so now think about the average hunting shot selection at a deer...... Shots that you have personally taken so many times in the past. Likely there is no earthen backstop unless purely by coincidence the land naturally rises behind the deer. No clearing of foreground and background. In fact most likely it is littered with fallen logs, trees and bushes. There is no defined shooting line or area where other hunters have been told not to be. Now consider the lack of a blaze orange law such that people can be concealed in total camo in line with the deer that you are about to shoot (and we all have seen those convincing camo ads that show how effective camo can be). The point is that it really sounds good when we talk about knowing what is in the foreground and background before you shoot. But unless you always hunt on an organized cleared and back-stopped shooting range, no one really abides by those rules. And without blaze orange being worn or mandated, you are not even putting the odds in favor of something ugly not happening in those kinds of uncontrolled circumstances. Just thought I would enter a little reality into the discussion.

This fatality reminds me of the time a bunch of years ago that a guy walked up to me to talk, and had his gun cradled in the elbow of his arm with the barrel pointed at my knees. I flipped out all over him and told him to get the hell away from me. Then there was the guy who rested the muzzle of his shotgun on top of his boot. And then there was friend brought down by my Canadian brother-in-law who lagged behind as we were going up to the targets while we were sighting in the shotguns. Imagine the shock and surprise when the damned gun went off behind us. He was doing some foolish thing with his gun while we were in front of him and the gun went off. I pointed to the hill across the valley, and told him that was were he was going to be hunting. I wasn't kidding either. I really didn't want to be in the same county as this bozo. There have been other episodes over the years that simply convinced me that the woods are full of idiots. I think I really am amazed that the numbers of accidents isn't higher than it is.

Yes, in NYS you do have the right to be an absolute idiot. And I have certainly seen a pile of them out in the woods including a few dressed completely in camo (complete with face paint) hunting opening day on a very intensely pressured chunk of state land. It really makes you wonder what camouflaged idiot is hunkered down in the woods behind that deer you are about to shoot at. He's doing his best to ensure that you never find out until the final scream. I know what a terrible imposition and tremendously dire encroachment on your rights that a mandatory blaze orange law would be for you. Why that is just plain dictatorial isn't it?.....lol. Arguing against blaze orange based on legal rights is just damn foolishness. I'll tell you what it makes me real nervous is to be hunting around someone who thinks so little of their life and hunting safety. It makes me wonder how much disregard they have for my life and safety.

You really can have a huge variation in weight between fawns. There is such a long fawning season due to when the does are impregnated during the previous rut, that some fawns get a huge head start on others. Also male fawns seem to be significant bigger as a general rule. I wouldn't even try to come up with an average figure.