Doc

They may have some collected data by township, in fact I have copies of some of that town by town harvest data from the DEC for many of the years. However, whatever they learn about specific townships, they still allocate DMPs by WMU. So even though some particular town may show an over abundance of deer, the WMU allocation still relies on the average across the entire WMU which doesn't necessarily have to correlate. Even county figures do not effect DMP allocation.

Lol..... Probably not a crime that has to be proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt". In fact it probably does not even have to reach the level of "proof beyond reasonable doubt". In fact, just the ECO's word is probably adequate for the local J.P.

One thing has become obvious to me. Deer are aware of the camera whether it be conventional flash or infra red. Some are bothered by it and some are not. However, I have had very heavily traveled areas go from pictures every night to hardly any pictures at all, over time. I no longer use the cameras in places where I expect to be hunting, and simply use the cameras as a general look at what kind of herd is available in the area. It's just a curiosity kind of toy now instead of some attempted use as a hunting aid. So if you are finding that your deer are becoming camera shy, it probably is exactly what is happening.

Lol..... It's not like we have any choice anyway. The problem is that most hunters hunt a relatively small amount of acreage, and then for some reason, they project their observations onto their entire WMU and expect DMP allocations accordingly. In reality, I have seen a huge difference in conditions from one property to an adjacent property. What the DEC has to do is to take the harvest results from the whole WMU and apply their actions to every local part of that WMU. What that does is to make neither the hunters nor the DEC correct for every hunting property in that WMU. So if you think the DEC doesn't really have a clue about the situations exactly where you hunt ....... You're probably right. If you think you have the inside scoop on what is going on across your WMU you're probably wrong. If you ever expect to see all that change, you're probably wrong. Yes, we probably all have a laundry list of actions that we believe the DEC should take to fix deer management problems in NYS. Chances are pretty good that the items on that list are incorrect, unnecessary, or not in the realm of practicality given the financial realities of this state. Does that mean that we don't have a right to express those opinions?..... Not a bit. It is always interesting to hear what people would do to solve "world hunger" as long as we don't take those thoughts to seriously .... lol. Who knows, maybe some day we will accidentally stumble onto something that actually does make a difference.

We only had one bear in our area that I definitely knew about. He dragged our trash can up through the woods strewing trash all the way and bent the pipe that held up the bird feeder over and wrecked that. He/she came back a couple of nights in a row and raised havoc at a neighbors place. And then, poof ..... left and never came back. That was two years ago. What all that means is that first of all, that was the only bear encounter that we ever had, so nobody around here knows anything about bear hunting. Second, there has been no further bear sign around ..... no tracks, no scat, no sightings, no nothing. Third, It's kind ofobvious that these guys really do some traveling so patterning them doesn't sound real likely. So, without bait, it sounds like something that I will never have a chance to do locally even though we now have a season on them. I do think there are some situations that might work out. Like I related in another thread, I did see some bear activity down in PA at a corn field that looked like the bears had a regular thing going there, complete with well worn trails and everything. So bear hunting in farm country may have some potential if there is a good population of bears.

So what's your favorite recipe for them critters? Are they good eating? I'm getting a bit interested in this goose hunting stuff. Seems to me they are all over the place.

I do have a question about scent-loc suits. They cost a jillion dollars, so if you buy one, most likely you are going to wear it. Most likely you will even become dependant on it. So what happens in the early part of bow season when the daytime temperatures get kind of hot and even a bit oppressive. I actually remember an October bow hunt where I had to take off my shirt. The temp got up into the 80's and I was just plain cooking. So I guess on those particular days, you just simply would not wear it? I suppose in some of the more moderate cases you could carry it in in a pack and put it on after you have cooled down a bit. I have no idea how hot those suits actually are.

I remember seeing a corn field down in PA that had some significant crop damage from bears. It looked like they had been rolling around in there and mashed everything down flat into the mud. It was quite a big area too. One of the guys I was hunting with saw one of the bears, and there were some very distinct bear trails. If the season had been open at that time, that would have been a good place to actually do some trail-watching for bears. They definitely were using those trails often. So that question I asked on the bear hunting forum about how to hunt bears without bait would have been a real easy one to answer in that location....lol.

So what do you think ..... if you have 5 preference points do you get resubmitted for 5 times in the drawing until you get a permit or until you have run out of the 5 free draws? I'm still trying to figure out how they actually use these preference points in the drawing. Nobody has ever explained that. Has anyone ever seen that explained anywhere? And then, when it comes to Landowner applications, how in the heck do they factor that in there. Is it indeed a block of permits set aside and doled out on a first come-first serve basis. Or do they try to give every landowner a permit. Or do they try to play around with the odds in some way to give landowners an "X"-times better chance than the non-landowner. Is there anywhere where all that stuff is officially explained? Just curious in case the day ever comes that I am depending on preference points or something. It would be nice to understand the system.

How many guys did you have? What is the limit? That sure is a lot of goose dinners.

Yeah, these shows really do make hunting look like something super-easy. Makes people wonder what's wrong with you that you don't get your 12 point buck every year ..... lol. Geez dad, how long will it be until you finally get smart enough to do this like everybody else? I guess I never thought about how it might effect perspective future hunters when they learn that TV hunting is not the way it really is. It's kind of hard to teach patience and realism in the first place without these shows portraying hunting as something that is quick and easy. I think the other place where the ficticious expectations really is having a negative effect is on hunters that should know better. I think that a lot of the hunter drop-outs may just be because of unrealistic expectations based on TV programs. these shows have created a new standard of success that we never had years ago. I think experienced hunters really know better, but cannot help but be affected by seeing harvests on TV that make it look like some of the game-farm hunt results are the norm that they themselves should be expecting. It could be that hunters are now demanding more of themselves than is practical and perhaps getting more discouraged than they have a right to be.

Moose..... my favorite critter to hunt. And also makes the most interesting hunting stories with or without actually getting one. Do you have any pictures to post?

They are strictly for decoration, right? I mean, are there any functional reasons for arrow wraps?

I was thinking mechanicals also, but I didn't want to start everybody hitting me over the head with their favorite broadheads ..... lol.

I have to admit that I believe camo is way over-rated. But I do still use it. I also have a ghillie suit that truly makes me invisible, or as close to it as anything will make you. I can't use it for bo hunting because of interference issues, but I do use it for coyote hunting. Also on the rare event that I do any turkey hunting, it is excellent camo. However, I will say that back in the early days of my bowhunting, denim with a checkered flannel shirt used to get me just as close to deer as my camo does today. What the heck, Even with my gun season blaze orange on, I seldom get busted because I was seen. An unruly rogue breeze might get me (we seldom get one wind direction for very long down in the valley country) but I seldom am seen if I move at the right speed.

It all depends on which season it is. For bow season, I try to get on stand as close to daybreak as possible.... Maybe 15 minutes before it starts to get light. Opening day of gun season, I get on stand a lot earlier usually an hour before daylight. I have had a couple occasions where I got to my stand area a bit late and found someone else already in the area, too close for me to be comfortable. If I'm already there, I can warn them off with a flashlight and so far haven't really had anybody that refused to keep on moving. After opening day, it is mostly still-hunting so I get out when I can without any particular hurry. Usually that is around sunrise.

What has been amazing me lately on some of these shows is the terrible penetration that some of these guys are getting. I seem to recall that almost all the other programs of the past featured a lot of "pass-throughs". That's good. But on many of the shows that I have seen recently, it sure looked like they were only getting around 7 or 8 inches. Awful lot of arrow sticking out the near side. They always seem to get their deer, but frankly I would be real nervous with that little penetration and their sure wouldn't be a whole lot of celebrations until I actually had that critter laying at my feet. Anybody else noticing that?

I didn't plan on going this year. I was terribly disappointed last year, and talking to the vendors, it sounded like several were planning on not showing up for this year. I guess the cost of vendor sites was an issue. like I said before, someone who had never gone before would probably have a real good time. But for me, I have been going for decades and even participated, and I have seen it continue to shrink and those things that are left are nothing new for me. So until I hear that things are improving, I will keep that event scratched off my calendar. It's too bad because I do believe that it was a valuable recruitment tool for hunting, fishing and trapping. I'm not sure who is at fault for the slide in quality, but I have to believe that it may be the DEC. I would like to hear more about the event at Godfrey's Pond. I've never been to that one.

So, since bear baiting is not allowed, just how do you guys go specifically after bears? My understanding is that they have such a large range that trail-watching is useless. They are thinly scattered over such a large area that still-hunting isn't all that effective. And we don't exactly have the right kind of land for spot and stalk hunting. And in fact, my understanding is that most bears are taken almost accidently by deer hunters. So if a guy decides to go hunting for bears specifically, how would you all recommend he go about it in NYS?

Sad to hear of your encounter with the kind of scum that would steal like that. However I have come to expect the worst and really pay a lot of attention to where I put my cameras. It's too bad when you have to locate them with thieves in mind instead of being able to use the most reliable areas that will get you better pictures. But that's what I have to do. I keep everything on my own property and even then, I have to pay a lot of attention to concealment. It's just the way things are these days.

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to check with the DEC. They have all kinds of different rules depending on the classification of the land use. A little warning about horses, if you're counting on using them for packing a deer out. Not all horses will tolerate that sort of thing ..... lol. Years ago my Dad tried to drag a deer back home using the family horse. He wasn't having any part of getting anywhere near that thing. he wouldn't even come up to it. So that didn't work too good ...... Ha-ha. Obviously a whole lot of horses (probably most) have no problem with doing that sort of thing, but apparently there are some that won't do it.

All of the above situations could apply to any typical New York State dairy farm area.

Last time I tried, I had all these buzzards trying to take it away from me.

I had a Bushnell Trophy mounted on exactly the same tree last year and never had a problem. I moved the primos to another area and still had occasional under exposed pictures. Many of these blacked out pictures were taken around noon with sunlight coming through the trees (see the samples). I also had a series of two pictures on the same day only 2 minutes apart. One was exposed perfectly the next one was almost black. The people at Bass-Pro took one look at a sample picture and had no problem deciding it was a bad camera. By the way, I do have a Primos 60 that has absolutely no issues. That's why I had no problem buying another one in the first place. I guess you just occasionally get a lemon. So far I am happy with the Bushnell trophy that I traded in the Primos for. So now I have 1 Primos 60 and 2 Bushnells. All I need now are some good bucks to show up....lol.

I used to, but got tired of doing all the butchering and then finding that most of the best cuts of meat are laced with clots.