moog5050

You don't adjust the DL to your anchor. When the nock reachs below the eye at full draw, that is YOUR DL. You can then adjust the loop, release, etc. to find your anchor.

Sooo true. I don't know why this one bother me so much. There are other posts that I disagree with simply ignore. I need some intervention.

The point is surely getting lost here. What I was trying to explain is that a person's PROPER draw length should be determined when the nock of the arrow (blue in WNY's picture) is vertically below the eye - as it is in that photo. That length is based on your physical structure and does not change. It is the proper draw length for the person. Now, if you choose to anchor closer or farther back on the face, you can change the d-loop to do so. That will allow you to find the repeatable anchor. It does not change the draw length, merely the anchor point. Anyone can draw a bow too long or too short in DL. This would result in the nock being behind the eye or in front of the eye, respectively. This would suggest that they are drawing a bow that is not the correct DL for that person. Again, the d-loop doesn't matter. That established only your anchor point. Where is the nock in relation to your eye? If your body structure does not change, the length from your bow arm extended to the nock reaching below your eye remains constant, irrespective of d-loop length. That is the point and a proper DL for the person. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that the DL of the bow itself changes. I officially give up now.

LoL...I was suckered into that Sam. Easier to get out of the bells angels than that membership too!

Good plan CD. Enjoy the search for your bow. I also second the idea of giving a look at the elite brand, even if you buy used. Transferable warranty and easy shooting bows.

Shawn Please do some reading on how DL Is measured and where the location of the nock should be at full draw before suggesting I don't understand Doc's comment. That is DL. It can't change unless your arm length changes. Anyone can shoot a bow that is not the proper DL by altering the anchor and loop. It doesn't mean that their true DL changed. Every coach will tell you where the nock should be at full draw. I understand what Doc is saying but it ignores that there really is a right place for the nock to sit when fully drawn for optimal accuracy. That is as important as a repeatable anchor. Yes, if you don't care whether the nock is behind you ear or in front of your chin than you can shoot any DL with a variance in loop size or anchor placement. That doesn't make it right or accepted and you will never be as accurate as you can be. I look forward to the OP asking his shop whether the loop size changes DL. The answer will be absolutely not. I don't like arguing on forums but I also think its plain wrong for bad info to be passed in as true. I am really done now.

BTW - sorry for the detour. OP good luck with the bow search. It can be addicting.

When I went to law school, the saying was: If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have neither, pound the table. Not saying you are pounding the table Doc, BUT .... LOL Again, DL is measured with reference to where the nock sits when at full draw, NOT the D LOOP. If you want a d loop that you hold a foot behind your head, its doesn't change the distance between the grip with your arm extended and where the nock sits. Could you explain why no shop asks how long your d loop is when measuring for DL? The answer is, because it doesn't matter for that measurement. I give you credit for not giving up on a lost cause. You sure you weren't a lawyer at some point?

When drawn, the nock of the arrow should be in a vertical line below the eye. The loop only dictates how far behind that you anchor. If the nock is 3" in front of your eye, any archery coach will tell you that your bow's DL is too short - no matter how long the loop is. Loop does not change DL period.

NO bow shop starts with determining the length of the d-loop and then measuring draw length. WNY is right. d-loop does not determine DL. It can be tweaked to fit your favored anchor point and allow for better stablity or settling of the pin. I undertsand your point, but to tell a new archer that d-loop is part of the equation for measuring DL is simply wrong Doc. I have a 28 1/8" DL. If I decided to use a 3" long d-loop (no one would), I would not become a 25 1/8" DL. I too would do as much testing as you can and then buy a used high end bow off AT. Good luck. You have plenty of time to be hunting proficient with a bow before next season.

If taking it off, the treelimb quivers are pretty good, reasonably priced and light. If leaving it on, the tighspot is nice, but a bit heavy. That cross axis is interesting, but it looks like its bow specific.

Yes - now open up Livingston Co. to rifle please.

The butcher that taught me to process deer explained to me that fat, connective tissue and silver skin should all be removed if you don't want the meat to taste gamey. I have been doing it ever since and have not had a strong piece of venison since doing so. It definitely is more work, but worth it. I also agree with Culver - loin and back straps are grilled medium rare to rare. The rest is slow cooked like you did Vince or used in chili.

Thanks Rick. KInd of missing it. lol

Previously, it would send one by text to one of us and the other by email. You have to set it up that way. You could provide one number for text and one email and it would transmit to both immediately. Not anymore I guess.

I really like the primes. I think they draw similar to the elites, have a great finish and that shift held like a much longer ATA bow. Machinist, if you decide to get rid of it, let me know as I want to be first in line - AGAIN. Keep the 28" cams.

I agree with the above. Clear the area outside he is using. It should help.

One of the benefits of Text and email is for those that share cameras. Now we need to forward texts.

Honestly Culver - to answer your question would require some research for me to answer. Generally, regulations are promulgated by an agency to enforce a law (state or federal) and really provide more specifics on how that law is to be applied. The agency is given the authority to do so by the law. I really have no idea what provision of the ECL gives the DEC the authority to establish the set back, so I can't say for certain whether the regs could be amended to maintain for a 500' set back, subject to a less restrive determination by the locals. It all depends on the the language of that ECL provision. Obviously, the ECL itself could be amended, but that requires legistlative vs. agency action. The point here was that by reducing the set back under the regs, the locals have more autonomy under the current structure. Changing the structure (the ECL) could be done I guess. In other words - it would require an amendment to the state law vs. DEC regs. Different process.

As I recall, these didn't fair bad in comparison to FP accuracy in one of the mags that did tests on a bunch of BHs but the tricks remained closest.

I bought one for my 11 year old. They are protective but too bulky for my liking. I just use a mohpie for the double battery power.

OK I am really done responding now. Lawyers can never shut up.

I understand Doc. You are saying that the law should provide for a 500ft set back unless the locals deem otherwise, but that is not consistent with the legal principles involved with respect to state law superseding local laws. That is why, if you want to leave it to the locals, the less restrictive the state law, the better.

Doc, you seem to be missing the point. Diminishing set backs under state law does leave it in the hands of the locals to set it where ever they want - which is what you contend should happen. In fact, if the state law was reduced to 0, the locals would have complete autonomy. You seem to be against reducing the set back under state law, but want more local control. That IS inconsistent if you understand that the locals can be more, but not less, restrictive as they choose. No more comments from me on this subject.

Now that is funny and scary Covert