nyantler

Really nice 8-point looks like 115-120

None of the cops I know are against my gun rights... in fact they couldn't be more supportive.

Yeah it was kinda silly...I'll be here all week...lol

That's the best you can do is attack my use of the term bullshit? LOL.... I think I made my point... doesn't matter if you get it or not.

uThe Safe act, although ridiculous, is not a hunting regulation... as for the rest of what you mentioned that is your opinion... there are other hunters that don't share your opinion. You show me one biologist that says that an antler restriction is not affective for balancing buck age structure, which is a basic part of any good deer management, and I'll show you a biologist that doesn't know what he's talking about... but I promise you there isn't one that can or would ever say such a thing. I agree that they may not be for mandating such restrictions, but to claim that they don't work for what they are intended is bullshit... and I think you know it. What you think you know about deer management, or maybe in your eyes QDM I promise you I was speaking on publically long before you ever heard the term. So pretending to tell me that you are relying on biological science and the words of many biologists, but not being able to understand the importance of any antler restriction as a deer management tool is also bullshit. Lose the idea of antler restrictions, voluntary or otherwise, as just a means of trophy management (which I agree it has unfortunately been portrayed by many "QDMers") and begin looking at the concept for what it is designed to do in reality and you will much better understand why I take the position I do... If you continue to think that I'm talking about mandatory AR's, you will continue to lose my point.

I honestly believe that they would rather have mandatory AR's than have there seasons shortened or lose the opportunity to take an extra buck if given the choice. That was the point I was trying to make... take a week away from bow hunters, and you better get out the way of the stampede.

You continue to let your hatred for AR's cloud the reality... AR's.. when implemented are 100% successful... you can have your opinion about them but continuing to deny that fact makes no sense... for one I never mentioned mandatory AR's.. just antler restrictions in general... whether voluntary or otherwise.. my point which your anger keeps making you not see has nothing to do with the idea of forcing AR's it has to do with comparing the acceptance of the one buck idea or shorter season idea with AR restrictions... nothing more.. As for hunting numbers there is a sharp decline in numbers over the last 40 years... I'll grant you the slooooowwww "uptick" in the last few years, but the number is still low enough to have caused the increase in DMP's over the last 25 years and a lengthening of some seasons to keep pace with the growing whitetail population...and if common sense doesn't tell you that hunters are not prepared to give up an extra buck or have their season shortened then, again, you are letting your hatred for Antler restrictions cloud your common sense. Tell me again too what new legislations have been passed in the last 25 years that have made hunting worse for NY hunters. I think I already covered how ridiculous that concept is somewhere here in the last few days.

Usually very true when hunting out in the open.. back deeper in the woods not so much.. hence the reason not to change shooting time...

Holy Cow! Finally something you and I totally agree on... good form Early!!

Really? None of you got that I was being facetious?? Why not do what is most advantageous to the hunter and let him hunt after dark? Remember its all about hunter... screw the animal. Call it what it is... hunters want to advantage of that moment when you can barely see... in hopes of catching one of those big nocturnal bucks finally making his way out into the open...

Those states have always had shorter seasons... NY's longer seasons are right in line with the decreasing hunter numbers over the last 40 years... I didn't say it couldn't be done.. I said there would be many other considerations that would have to happen as well for those particular ideas to make sense... AR's have already shown to be affective "everywhere" they have been used. You can search anywhere they have been used and find that there is not one example of where they have ever shown evidence of being a bad management tool. This is not about whether they are liked or disliked it is simply a fact that has never been successfully disputed... and if you think some hunters are upset about AR's... tell them they can take one buck only and their season will be shortened after having years of being able to take multiple bucks and having over 2 months to hunt then sit back and watch that backlash... it will make the AR backlash look trivial...whether you, I or anyone else thinks its a good idea. As for removing choice... you remove their choice of taking two bucks and having a little more time in the woods to do it. You really shouldn't let your hatred for AR's get in the way of common sense.

I don't really understand how cutting any season is beneficial since we are barely keeping up with the growing deer populations now. The one buck rule might be fine, but doe harvesting would have rise to make up for the lesser number of bucks being killed. Right now we know from ARs already implemented that after the first couple years buck harvest numbers return to normal in those areas without playing around much with the rest of deer hunting... the one buck rule and reduced season lengths come with a lot of other thought into adequate population control and possibly a lot more messing around with other factors to maintain good management.

Exactly.. The QDMA deals mainly with deer management on private land and does not have an agenda to push ARs statewide anywhere. The focus primarily on education not legislation.

Why not make it 30 minutes after dark... that would be very advantageous for the hunter.. not so good for the deer, but who cares about them anyway... I pay a lot of money for my license and should be able to make my own decision about when to leave the woods.. having a rule making me leave at sunset is just another example of how we are over regulated.

They were shot by hunters when they were young.

Wasn't about ethics.. was about common sense. and should make even more sense now that he knows the outcome of leaving a deer overnight in that area. Either track at night or have your deer eaten by coyotes... if you don't like tracking at night, don't shoot the deer just before dark.. simple common sense... ethical or not.

I'm betting not many by some of the posts here over the years... some hunters still hunt until it gets dark... especially with the bow.

If I didn't like tracking a deer at night... I wouldn't shoot a deer just before dark... especially with coyotes around.

I have many close friends that are police officers and NONE of them would ever be involved in what has been described by the OP. That doesn't mean it does not exist... there is always going to be the bad egg among us... to make a broad generalization about all law enforcement officers is just ridiculous. It's like saying all hunters are rednecks... when we all know that only 99% of us are rednecks..lol

I hear a lot about how over regulated deer hunting has become. When I started hunting it was one buck only with limited party permits available for doe hunting. The deer season was also much shorter and there was no hunting on Sundays. Since then seasons have been lengthened and added, the number of bucks you can take has increased, doe permits are given out far more liberally, a primitive muzzleloader season was added then changed to include inline muzzleloaders with scopes and jacketed bullets, opened up southern zone WMU's to rifle hunting, reporting kills has become much easier, there has even been an increase in the amount of state land available to hunt across the state... not really seeing how the DEC has over regulated hunting or made things harder for the hunter to take a deer. If anything its as good as it's ever been for the hunter.. aside maybe for access to private land which has been limited over the years.. something the DEC has nothing to do with.

I guess I agree with all that... it just puzzles me that many of those same hunters have strong opinions against sound conservation efforts and although they claim they have little time for hunting... they spend hours on forums like this playing down the importance of what they don't understand (or refuse to learn). Believe me, I get the whole resistance to any mandated AR's and am actual pleased to see that there has been a growing number of hunters that have voluntarily taken to being more selective when it comes to taking younger bucks. I too don't believe that jamming AR's down hunters throats is necessarily the answer, but denying that young buck protection is a key part of any sound deer management program just shows some of the ignorance that can slow down any conservation effort. We focus a lot on AR's because it is the hot topic right now.. but the ignorance runs rampant in many other areas as well... which has impeded DEC conservation efforts for many years.

Absolutely true... all the more reason for hunters to really start thinking a bit more about what's best for the deer. It would be much easier for the DEC to do what they know is best than have to walk the tightrope. I am not naïve enough to believe that much will ever change... its the human condition... their will forever be hunters that simply refuse to educate themselves on the importance of conservation and what is important for optimum herd health... there will always be the one "weekend a year" hunter... and there will always be the "I'll do what I please because I pay for a license" hunter... it just is what it is.

Neither

I agree that there are there is quite a bit of "shoving down throats", the subject of protecting young bucks is a hard one for hunters to swallow because it means not being able to do what "they" want... which for many is make sure they don't have to tell their hunting buddies they didn't get a buck. My point was only that I think many hunters really don't care about the deer or conservation. Having been one of the fellas that introduced the whole idea of young buck protection years ago before anyone in NY new what it meant I know how tough a task it has been to educate hunters on the concept of maintaining a strong age structure among bucks. And I agree that there are those that push a bit too hard. And, I have always said that I believe organizations like QDMA went the wrong way years ago by selling the idea using the "more trophy bucks" angle. I think that's where the AR advocates sometime have lost their way. Although I feel that at the time it may have been the only way to get hunters to listen to what I feel is a strong part of whitetail conservation. I'm not keen on mandating ARs across the state either, but I also won't play down the importance of the concept or deny it's proven success which seems to be what many hunters do to justify their want to get a buck at all costs to impress their buddies with no regard for how it might affect the deer.

Sure... back in the 70's many hunters were against shooting does... notions about how shooting them would kill off the buck populations because does produced fawns that could be bucks... misinformation produced a bunch of anti doe killing hunters, some that lobbied hard not to have doe tags and even refused to allow doe hunting on their land or if you hunted in their group... all this despite the growing overpopulation of deer (especially females)... it was all about the antlers back then, big or small... hunter couldn't care less about how doe take was essential to good conservation... they didn't want to kill them and that was it... not much different with yearly buck protection... buck age structure and buck:doe ratios matter little to todays hunter regardless of its benefits to an optimal deer herd... if we found out tomorrow that killing big bucks was detrimental to the deer herd.. I'd start shooting small bucks again and let the big guys walk... and would support any change in the regs that reflected that... a great number of hunter in NY are way more concerned about what they want than anything that has to do with real conservation of whitetails, they like to talk the talk but can't be bothered to walk the walk.