wolc123

I remember catching carp on two consecutive casts, in Dunkirk harbor on lake Erie about 20 years ago, on light spinning tackle and a 1/4 oz chartruse Mr twister jig. The first one was about a 5 pounder. Had I not just caught that smaller one, I would have wondered what I had on for a long time after hooking the next, much larger one (about 25-30 pounds). There was about 20 minutes of tug-o-war before it tired enough against my 6 pound line, so that I could get a look at it. I remember chasing it around the harbor with my electric trolling motor to keep from getting spooled. It was not real fast like a king salmon or a musky, just strong, so I could keep up with it with that. Those were the only ones that I ever caught on lures. I caught a few on worms, when I was a kid, in the creek behind our house.

Prayers sent for Christopher and family.

I also respect your opinion. A man has to know his limitations. I know mine pretty well and I don't exceed them. That has resulted in all the deer that I have shot at, over the last 10 years, being killed and recovered cleanly. I am not perfect though and I try and learn a little bit from every "less than perfect" shot. I had to take a second finishing shot on a doe last year, with my slug gun, and I have made corrections already due to that. The fact that you won't take some shots that I do is ok, and shows that you also know your limitations. That is definitely a good thing. The target range is a good place to start establishing the upper limit on your range limitations but we all know that shooting at "live" targets is a lot different. In the case of that 59 yard crossbow shot, I have admitted that was beyond the effective range of that crossbow. I did not have a range-finder at the time, and I underestimated the range. That resulted in the bolt striking low (thru the heart), rather that high-lung where it would have struck at the 50 yard range I estimated. Range is but one of many variables when it comes to killing a "live" target. All of the other variables were stacked strongly in my favor on that shot. The buck was standing still, broadside, and distracted by a couple hot does. There was no wind, I had a good rest, and a telescopic sight. I am an experienced rifle shooter. It sounds like the OP is an experienced rifle shooter also. As long as those other variables are in his favor, then I have no problem recommending a 50 yard shot with a 300 fps minimum crossbow.

A compound bow will get you all of archery season, but is a far less effective weapon for killing deer in the hands of an inexperienced shooter than a crossbow. The crossbow does give you the best two weeks of archery season in the southern zone, which includes all of the rut. You also get 3 days a month earlier, up in the northern zone, before ML season opens up. They call it a 10 day crossbow season up there, but a ML has a big range advantage so why would anyone use a crossbow over the last 7 days if they also have a ML ? When it comes to range, 30 yards is about the max range of a compound bow for an average hunter. I used an entry level. 300 fps crossbow to put an a bolt 8" into a buck on my first year using it, from a 59 yard range. I was not satisfied with that penetration so have imposed a 50 yard limit on that one. I now use a laser rangefinder to make sure it is not exceeded. Fortunately that 8" took the 125 gr mechanical broadhead all the way thru the heart and the buck died quickly. A higher speed crossbow, such as the Centerpoint sniper 370, should be a legit 60 yard weapon on deer, with enough energy for full penetration at that range. If NY would have passed full inclusion of the crossbow this season, I would have purchased one of those. The three biggest advantages of the crossbow, in order of importance are: not needing to draw with deer in close, the ability to shoot from a rest, and the use of telescopic sights. All that adds up to make it a far more effective deer-killing weapon in the hands of less experienced hunters. The smaller, entry-level one that I use is very compact and right at the state minimum width, so the unwieldy, front-heavy drawbacks are minimized. Some folks like the challenge of archery season. I am not part of that group. I think it shows some disrespect for the animal. I always seek to kill those deer cleanly using the best, legal and affordable means to do it. Some are willing to accept a little "collateral damage" which includes the occasional wounded deer. It has been more than 10 years since I failed to cleanly kill one cleanly that I shot at with any weapon, and the crossbow has played a big part in that since it was legalized three years ago. Some of the "challenge seeking" bowhunters always ask, why not use a gun? The huge advantage of the crossbow over that is it's silence. A gun may be less of a challenge for the first deer, but it will broadcast your intent to the others for miles around, making them harder to kill. One deer won't fill a freezer.

Two items that I have not seen mentioned, and that helped me with the two bucks I killed last season are a laser range finder and a pedestal/hammock tree seat. I used the range finder to sight some objects around my stand and that allowed me to know the exact range and to put the arrow in the right spot on the buck that I killed on our farm with my crossbow last fall. The tree seat is light weight, easy to carry, and cost less than $ 20. It allows comfortable shooting 360 degrees around and is simple to use. Last season I made the best 50 yard shot of my life from that seat to kill my late-season Adirondack buck. I can't complain about my Barnett Recruit crossbow. I like it's low cost, small size, and ease of handling. I think it is the perfect crossbow for the 13 days that NY state allows it's use. It has got the job done for me each time I used it, dropping the bucks dead in sight or close enough to hear crash. I have also had good service from the previously mentioned muff with handwarmer, and mostly good (3 out of 5) with the Butt-out II last year. There is lot's of good stuff out there, but the most worthwhile is the large-print NIV Bible that I carry in my pack most of the time and read a couple pages from nearly every morning. That was about the best $ 5 that I have spent, and has directly contributed to all of the deer that ended up in our freezer over the last 5 years or so.

1) Give God thanks and all of the credit for allowing me to cleanly kill enough deer to provide my family with enough meat to last until the 2018 season. We are going to have a tough time eating all the vacuum-sealed venison in the freezer that He blessed us with last season, so two average-sized deer will probably be enough this fall. 2) Practice sufficiently and select shots such that every one gets the job done and minimizes meat-damage. 3) Fill a DMP tag with a mature doe and donate it to a "feed the hungry" program thru a local processor. 4) Help a friend from work get his first antlered buck with his crossbow. 5) Help someone recover a poorly hit deer using the blood-glow tracking agent that I purchased a few years ago. I have heard great things about this stuff and would like to see it work. Every deer I have shot at since having it has dropped dead in it's tracks or close enough to hear crash, so I have not had a chance to try it. 6) Kill a 2-1/2 yr old or older Adirondack buck while still hunting with my new lever action rifle using open sights. 7) Kill an antlered buck during the late ML season.

I went thru a stage where big antlers were my top priority. I still appreciate the antlers and would prefer killing a small spike buck over any mature doe, and certainly a button buck over a doe fawn. I never have any remorse after killing a buck, but I usually have a little after killing a doe. I do my part, knowing that killing does is necessary to keep populations in check, and because a legal limit of two bucks is not enough to feed my family. The selfish part in me is always a little sad after killing a doe, when I think of the loss of chances at the future bucks she may have produced. I would love to see NY state allow a third antlered buck for those of us who purchase archery, gun, and ML licenses. It is mostly about the meat for me, and while does and bucks taste the same, the bucks are faster and easier for me to process , usually having less fat to trim away. The antlers provide a quick way to rough-age the deer on the hoof, especially the 1-1/2 year olds. I try and avoid those early in the seasons. I don't pass them to get larger antlers, but rather to get the additional meat that usually comes with those larger antlers. Still, some meat is better than none, so late in the seasons the 1-1/2's move onto my hit-list. To me, a 2-1/2 year buck provides just about the optimum combination of quantity and quality meat. I do appreciate the trophy hunters, even when they belittle me as a meat-hunter, or for taking smaller bucks. My family has grown dependent on venison and we do live off the land and the waters of NY state when it comes to filling our protein needs. Those little bucks and small fish the trophy folks pass on may be what keeps my family fed on a lean year.

That reminds me of something that happened many years ago when I first started fishing for Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon. At that time, you could only keep lake trout that were less than 25" or over 30" long. One day I caught one that was well over 30", but I had no camera on the boat. I put it in the livewell (which it nearly filled) and brought it home alive to show my folks and so my mom could take a picture. After she got the picture, I put it in a cooler and took it down to the small stream behind our house. It was early spring, and the stream was flowing about 6" deep at the time. The fat laker was well over a foot from belly to dorsal fin. That stream connected downstream with Tonawanda creek, which connects with the upper Niagara river. The trout swam away downstream and may or may not have made it to the river. I would imagine that if anyone else saw it or caught it, on it's way back to the river, they would have quite a tale to tell. Incidentally, we did release a few spring lake Ontario cohos, browns and rainbows in that same pond where we put the Erie smallmouths and Ontario Largemouths. None of them survived the summer. I think the cohos floated up first, then the rainbows, followed by the browns.

Pygmy is right about the smallmouths not doing do well in ponds. Around 20 years ago, we released some lake Erie smallmouth in a buddies 1/2 acre, 15 feet deep pond. We also stocked it with bluegills from another local pond, and largemouth from a nearby harbor on lake Ontario. The largemouths and bluegills did quite well, establishing breeding populations, but the smallmouths kept getting thinner and few survived until the following year. They did not reproduce. We tried to help them by catching crayfish from a local stream, but it was a loosing battle. As thin as they were, they still out fought the fat largemouth for as long as they survived. I think you would need more than 40 surface acres of water, and a maximum depth of more than 40 feet, for smallmouth to do well in a pond. There is a pretty healthy population in the 100 acre, 100+ foot deep natural Adirondack lake where my in-laws built their retirement home. In shallow, weedy water, smallmouth and perch get little white worms in the meat that resembles maggots. Largemouth and bluegill seem impervious to that affliction. I don't blame you for wanting smallmouths in your pond, because they are my favorite fish to catch by a wide margin.

The bass seemed hungry this morning on lake Erie, but it was hard to stay on them in the high winds with my light aluminum boat. (2) 17", (3) 15" smallies and one 17" largemouth made it into our livewell. We lost a few more right at the boat. There was a bass tournament going on, out of small boat harbor in Buffalo, and them bass boats were on us like gnats almost every time we hooked a fish. Those bass sure are well-fed with all those gobies out there right now. I can't remember ever seeing fillets as thick as they were today. Usually they are thinner at this time of year, when they are just recovering from spawning. It was nice that the rain held off until the afternoon.

I caught a nice, thick, 17" largemouth bass out on lake Erie this morning. I would have put it in my pond if I still had some bluegills in there for it to eat. The herons cleaned them all out as the level dropped during last summer's drought. Bluegills and largemouth bass do very well together in ponds, keeping each other in check. No big deal, that bass got to go to directly to "fish heaven" - our freezer, along with (5) of it's similarly-sized smallmouth cousins.

Ponds are a nice feature to add to a property. I agree with TreeGuy, that it would be best to keep out of sight of the cabin, if you want to hunt deer around it. I dug one about 25 years ago, on the lowest point of our farm. It is towards the back of the property, well out of view of any road or structure. The deer use it heavily, especially on real dry years. It is only about 1/4 acre, and now is about 8 ft deep at the center, when full. I originally dug it about 6 ft deep, using a "pond scoop" on the back of a smaller 2wd tractor. Over the years sediment built up, so that it was only about 4 feet deep last summer. We had the worst drought in recorded history last year, in Western NY, and it dried up completely on October 1. I took advantage of that "dried up" opportunity to clean out all the sediment, and dig it a couple feet deeper into the clay, using my larger, 4wd front-loader tractor. We got some heavy rains later in the fall and it filled back up completely by the start of gun season. Last season, starting around the middle of archery season as that pond began filling back up, there were more deer on our farm than I have seen in many years. I think having that water played a big part in that. I had always heard that mortally wounded deer head for water and last year I got to see that. I drove a bolt diagonally thru a buck's boiler room with my crossbow, and watched him stagger off, straight towards the pond. He got within 10 yards, before starting to wobble and dropping dead in sight. The pond provides more than just improved deer-hunting. About three years after I dug it, I noticed the water looked like it was boiling, as I was brush-hogging around the banks. It was bluegills eating the bugs that the mower had thrown into the water. My girls were young at the time, and we had lots of fun back there, fishing for them bluegills. Either the ducks brought them in or they swam in from the creek during one of our frequent floods. I did not think the pond was big enough for bass, but I put a big largemouth in there one summer that I caught out on a local lake and brought home in my livewell. I caught it and released it several more times that year. One time was particularly memorable: It was early September, and I had put on some old cammo coveralls that had been hanging in the back of the barn for about a year. I walked back to the pond with my goose gun in my left hand and my fishing rod in my right. It was very hot that afternoon, and a doe and fawn were standing in the pond. When the doe saw me, she ran straight towards me. She charged several times, getting within a few feet, snorting and veering off. My scent must have been disguised by the old coveralls and the cammo must have broken up my outline enough that she had no clue what I was. She did not want to share her swimming hole. She and the fawn stayed within15 yards as I sat down on the bank, put down the gun, and started casting for the bass. I hooked it on the third cast. As it began splashing around, the doe finally got scared and "high tailed" it out of there with her fawn. That was definitely some classic entertainment.

No two hunters are in it for the same reasons. The main reason I do it is to provide top-quality protein for my family, and for myself. Hunting from home or at my folks place, near and around foodplots, is the most cost-effective way for me to do that. Working on those plots is nearly as much fun for me as harvesting the deer, and it provides year-round entertainment. For those with lots of disposable income, not much free time and with a desire for big antlers on the wall, a high-fence hunt makes a lot of sense. Those who enjoy the challenge of outsmarting a wise old buck are smart to hunt from high in a tree during archery season (just don't forget to properly use your safety harness). The challenge of still-hunting the mountains in lower density areas is also one that I enjoy very much and plan to spend more time at in the coming years. Those who find fault in the methods that others use are merely demonstrating their own weakness, insecurity, and unhappiness. There is a cure for those problems. If you want to know what it is, look at some of my previous posts (or maybe Chef will clue you in).

There are many reasons venison gets a bad rap, but the biggest is the way it is handled after it is killed. Many folks cut them up and process right away, not allowing the rigor mortis to work out of the meat. Others take it to a processor on opening day, where it gets thrown onto a pile without good temperature control for who knows how long. Beef is almost always handled properly and aged properly before it is processed. The second biggest mistake folks make with venison is over cooking it. It always has far less fat in it than beef, and will dry out if overcooked. Rare is best and anything over medium rare is too much. Third is how the animal is killed. Cattle are always killed quickly, and the guts removed immediately. Poorly hit deer that suffer for more than a couple minutes prior to death will not taste as good. Backing out until morning and leaving the guts in over night will hurt taste, even if the deer died quickly. The age of the animal also affects flavor with younger ones generally tasting better. What the deer eats is important. Those from ag areas that feed on the same things as beef cattle (corn, clover, soybeans etc) can taste very similar to beef. The tenderloins and backstraps from a six month old corn/clover fed buck, killed quickly with a heart/lung shot, gutted immediately, aged 3 days at 33-43 F, and cooked rare, taste as good or better than beef fillets that I have had at some fine steak-houses. The best part of the venison is that it is better for your heart than beef, due to the lower fat percentage. How much time do you want to spend with your grandkids someday ? You might be better off giving the beef away and eating the deer. I can understand why a 4-1/2 year old bark-eating buck that requires a half dozen bullets to bring down, and needed to be dragged miles out of the mountains in warm weather before processing might leave a bad taste in someones mouth.

You can also catch them in a box trap baited with bananas.

Green growing soybeans are extremely attractive to deer (that is why you needed those fences to get smaller plots to make pods). They also provide very little cover, especially the ag varieties. Normally, a doe will stick to heavy cover when she has fawns, The attraction of the green soybeans is so great, that it may draw her out of that cover. The fawns then become easy pickings for the coyotes. If the doe and fawns stick to the heavy cover, the coyotes will not eat as many. I prefer to make it harder, not easier for the coyotes to kill fawns. It is good that Vermont has no closed season on coyotes. That would certainly make it much easier to keep them in check. In Western NY, it is very common to see pups out at all hours of the day thru the summer. By early fall they always wise up and become mostly nocturnal.

My biggest issue with planting the soybeans in the spring is that they draw does out into the open during fawning season, making the fawns easy prey for the coyotes. I experienced that first hand 2 years ago, and If I can save a few folks from making the same mistake, it will be well worth it. I don't know if you have ever happened across a coyote den with neat little piles of fawn skulls next to the openings, but it is something you won't forget if you ever do. Another thing that was memorable was the way the momma coyotes would fake injury, trying to draw me away from the dens when I got closer. If NY state would ever consider removing the restrictions against killing coyotes over the summer then I would change my tune on spring planting of soybeans as a deer plot. Those coyote pups would be easy pickings when they are out playing on the cut hay fields.

The time the deer like soybeans best is just after they sprout, until they start to turn yellow. That is why it makes sense to time your planting such that you can capitalize on that a little bit during early archery season. With global warming, our fall frosts have been getting later, so mid to late August plantings can easily get you that. Their draw is so strong during that "green-growing" period, that the deer may be drawn out of heavy cover (including corn), even if a little hunting pressure is detected. My only reason for planting foodplots is to make it easier and cheaper to fill my freezer with venison. That is the main reason all of my spring foodplot budget goes into corn. That is the only plot that has the cover to hold deer on my ground thru periods of heavy hunting pressure. Corn plots continue to provide as long as there is a little corn left on the stalks. As deer are killed, others move in by night to fill the vacancies. Any money that I could be spending on spring soybeans, or fencing so they can produce pods, would be better spent on more fertilizer for or acres of corn. Soybeans do bank some nitrogen, but not nearly as much as 3-5 years of white clover, so that is also not a real good reason for planting them in the spring.

I can't go Saturday, but hoping for some 12-18" "eaters" out on lake Erie Sunday morning. I just finished vacuuming the boat, and just need to get the tackle ready now. Hopefully the rain holds off until the afternoon.

The best use I have found for them is adding to a broadcast mix of winter wheat and white clover, planted about mid-August. The sprouting soybeans are very attractive to deer, but ripe pods not so much. That way you get some of that attraction during early bow-season. If you plant them now you are wasting all that prime attraction at a time when you can't hunt. Soybeans also do not keep well, so there is usually an abundance of free seed at the end of normal spring planting time.

It will be interesting to see how the corn does this year. I can't remember planting in wetter soil conditions. I planted the Saturday before last, the day after most of the standing water finally left the fields after I opened up a few ditches. This past Sunday, it looked like it was sprouting pretty good, mostly up about an inch. The conditions were great for plowing, a few weeks prior, but the 3-4 inches of rain after made secondary tillage a bitch. I got away easily with my smaller 2wd tractor on the plow, but needed my larger 4wd on undersized disk to get that done. On the last pass with that I lost traction in a mud-hole and needed to straighten the disk and use the front loader to pull myself out. This was the first year I needed 4wd to pull the planter. The corn looks ok but could use some rain now. I fertilized a little heavier with the planter this year. Hopefully it really takes off after I spray it with gly and cultivate in a couple weeks.

I think they recently changed the law to allow bass to be targeted state-wide, prior to the 3rd Sat in June opener, but they can not be kept. For a few years, you could keep (1) 15 inch or larger bass on Lake Erie, but they upped that to 20 inch now. Personally, I don't like targeting bass prior to the June opener, because I am not a "catch and release" guy. I see that as mostly the senseless maiming of a fine food source.

Sorry 22P. You are right about one thing. I do love Chef, along with everyone else on here and elsewhere. I think he gets bored sometimes, after a tough night at work, maybe gets into the sauce a little bit and begins stalking me on the internet. He does not mean any harm, and there is nothing I would rather suffer personal attacks for than my faith in Jesus Christ. Back on topic, I agree with those who are stressing the importance of marksmanship practice that is similar to real hunting situations. Unless you are into woodchuck shooting, lots of time shooting from sandbags on a bench is not as beneficial. For many years, most of my practice shooting was with a scope, usually off a simple rest, similar to those on my permanent stands and blinds, or leaning against a tree. This year I am getting into the open sights and more offhand shooting because I have seen many more deer while still hunting up in the Adirondacks the last few seasons than I have while sitting or in stands. I modified that Red-Ryder BB-gun with sling mounts and I use the same sling on it that goes on my Marlin. Getting your heart rate up thru some fast walking, then shouldering the gun quickly and getting off an accurate shot is a lot different than calmly shooting at a target. Now I just need to add a couple pounds of weight to that BB gun to make the "cheap" practice a little more realistic.

I have made lots of mistakes Chef, and that was my biggest one last season. Yet another reason for me to be thankful for the all-forgiving grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He paid the full price for that mistake, all those that I made prior, and all those that I have yet to make, while He was up there on that cross. Thanks for reminding me of that, and in so doing, allowing me to bring Jesus Christ onto another thread. Keep up the good work, and may He bless you with a good deer season this year. Do you also fish ? Many of Jesus's disciples were fisherman. They, as well as hunters, are very well positioned to absorb His blessings. Please consider jumping over to the fishing section (where I just posted on a thread). Maybe we can get a little more religion into the discussion there also. Having God on your side is a lot more important that what bait or lure you use. Similarly, having Him on your side is the number one consideration when you are looking to cleanly kill a deer.

There will probably be no fishing for me on the opener, but we are heading to lake Erie for smallies on fathers day morning. The following week, after the kids are done with school, we are heading up to the in-laws, in the Adirondacks, for more smallies, then up to the Thousand islands for yet more smallies and hopefully some big-mouths. We usually hit quite a few northerns and the occasional walleye up there also. Bass are my favorite fish to eat and catch, but my wife and kids prefer perch and walleye. There does not look to be much rain in the long range forecast, so hopefully the water levels will drop a bit prior to those trips. As we are reaching the end of spring, we have used up all of our frozen fish from last year, had a good fish fry from fresh Adirondack perch, and added a pack of Silver lake pike to the freezer. It will be nice to start stocking up with some fresh bass. The fillet knife, sharpener, and vacuum sealer are ready to go. Per NY state health advisories, I am going to separate the Lake Erie stuff for the wife and kids, and mark the St Lawrence and Adirondack stuff for my own consumption. Just like hunting, I fish mostly for the food. I can't help it that it is also fun to do. I usually release all bass over 18" long, as they are not quite as tasty as the little ones and carry more health risks.