bow season opener on oct 1?

[Doc]

Doc I am going off of comments the DEC has made about the amount of emails they receive on these issues.

The NYB is not suffering from membership shortages, they never had many members to begin with, and those they have lost have been because they cut their own throat with their elitist crap.

Saying that a group with 1% of NY bowhunters as members speaks for all NY bowhunters is like saying the Hells Angels speak for all motorcycle riders.

It would be great if there was a bowhunting organization that brought bow hunters together instead of dividing them like NYB has done.

And I assume the "large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over" is a direct quote without any editorializing ..... lol. By the way if there is any way possible, I would like a link to that quote. It's not that I am doubting your word, but I know how some of this stuff can get accidentally misquoted sometimes.

In terms of "elitist crap", I assume you are talking about the crossbow issue. I don't want to get back into that crazy argument other than to say that it is pretty short-sighted to throw a whole bowhunter organization under the bus simply because of a disagreement on such a foolish issue. It does make a convenient issue to try to justify not joining though and there are quite a few people who are using oit exactly that way. By the way, I haven't heard of a whole lot of people who actually tried to join NYB to fight that issue from the inside. That's not quite as easy as sitting on the outside simply sniping at the whole organization over one issue.

As far as the 1% speaking for all, that really is not such a strange condition, especially when you are dealing with a bunch of freeloaders who will take whatever the NYB does for them without bothering to join. Good deal for them .... eh? Also, your spokespeople are not always of your choosing, especially if you choose not to get involved. Those who have the backbone, ambition and dedication to take up the reins of leadership do generally wind up to be the authority that gets the attention of the powers that be. It's the old perception vs. reality argument. And it certainly is not their fault if the rest of the bowhunters fail to have any sense of dedication and organization.

As to your last point, is that some kind of volunteering that I am hearing? That would be a refreshing change to finally hear someone who isn't just content to sit back, bitching all the time, but who actually would put their actions where their mouth is. Certainly it should be easy to wrest control from a mere 1% of the bowhunters. However, don't be surprised if within weeks or months, you become the target of the whining, bitching and moaning, and you wind up with 1% or less of the bowhunters for members. Advocacy groups become excellent targets for petty nit-picking especially when it comes to hunters. And it also seems to be human nature to take whatever freebies that are offered without actually joining. That doesn't seem to bother people one bit.

[G-Man]

Poor excuses. So what happens when these kids turn 16? There's no room at camp for them because of the selfish adults. Do they hang it up at age 16?

no by then they have deveolped their own skills and will either stay with it when they can (usually to busy with school, girls/boys , sports. college). if you establish good roots and then cut down the tree it will sprout again and grow, might take a few years for them to want to or find someone to hunt with but a good foundation will have been established

[bkln]

Wait, is the Oct 1st date official? I can't find it on DEC website, all I see is this....

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/10002.html

[landtracdeerhunter]

Yes, Huntingny Bowhunters. I think ELMER got an idea!

[wdswtr]

Doc I understand your input and thoughts as it is right for you to do just that and I respect you for it. I have a NYB member in hunting camp with me, it gets pretty ugly at times hearing the same comments over and over and over just like it was repeated right from the bylaws or some manual from NYB. Deer season as we know it will cease to exist, is my favorite of them all. The thing is yes NYB has done some good actually great things for youth's but then they whine when it comes to a youth hunt season that has been suggested. Sorry but Less than 1% of all bowhunters do not get ALL the credit they so claim. I cant get deep into this as it gives me a migrane thinking about it. Like already said are an ELITE group with no to little concern about what the other 99% of hunters want or believe. The whole crossbow deal they started was disheartening the way they bashed the heck out of them. I also love how a few years back they had the same problem with muzzleloaders and yet in the end they came out with WE WON WE WON when in all actuallity they did not win that battle they started at all. If they did indeed win why is our last week of Muzzleloading season in the same season as bow in NT? They could possibly have had a great organization but they lost that respect by many many bowhunters, yes actually about 99% of them. Sure glad I brought this topic up but I do have to ask what freebies are we taking by not being members of NYB? I also have to disagree that joining them (for me again) to fight them on the inside seems rather rediculous to me. SO I give them my money to fight for what they want? Really think they will listen? Besides if I remember the bylaws right I would not be a member long if I created controversy withing the organization due to me disagreeing with them, yet I bet they would not return my money and use it. Sorry but I pay my fees to hunt, I also have spent alot of time writing letters and emailing legislatures, I have gone to several meeting the DEC held in watertown looking for hunter input, I have sent in all the surveys I have received in the mail ( well except this years trappers survery yet) I have also spent many hours teaching my kids the ins and out of hunting along with helping other family and friends along the way, so whatever that freebie is Im getting I think I am doing my part as a hunter to get those so called Freebies.

Edited June 6, 2012 by wdswtr

[nyslowhand]

Wait, is the Oct 1st date official? I can't find it on DEC website, all I see is this....

Back when the discussion was actually about the topic's title....

No it isn't official yet. But should be by 10/1/2013.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/81317.html

[wdswtr]

never mind

Edited June 6, 2012 by wdswtr

[Doc]

Doc I understand your input and thoughts as it is right for you to do just that and I respect you for it. I have a NYB member in hunting camp with me, it gets pretty ugly at times hearing the same comments over and over and over just like it was repeated right from the bylaws or some manual from NYB. Deer season as we know it will cease to exist, is my favorite of them all. The thing is yes NYB has done some good actually great things for youth's but then they whine when it comes to a youth hunt season that has been suggested. Sorry but Less than 1% of all bowhunters do not get ALL the credit they so claim. I cant get deep into this as it gives me a migrane thinking about it. Like already said are an ELITE group with no to little concern about what the other 99% of hunters want or believe. The whole crossbow deal they started was disheartening the way they bashed the heck out of them. I also love how a few years back they had the same problem with muzzleloaders and yet in the end they came out with WE WON WE WON when in all actuallity they did not win that battle they started at all. If they did indeed win why is our last week of Muzzleloading season in the same season as bow in NT? They could possibly have had a great organization but they lost that respect by many many bowhunters, yes actually about 99% of them. Sure glad I brought this topic up but I do have to ask what freebies are we taking by not being members of NYB? I also have to disagree that joining them (for me again) to fight them on the inside seems rather rediculous to me. SO I give them my money to fight for what they want? Really think they will listen? Besides if I remember the bylaws right I would not be a member long if I created controversy withing the organization due to me disagreeing with them, yet I bet they would not return my money and use it. Sorry but I pay my fees to hunt, I also have spent alot of time writing letters and emailing legislatures, I have gone to several meeting the DEC held in watertown looking for hunter input, I have sent in all the surveys I have received in the mail ( well except this years trappers survery yet) I have also spent many hours teaching my kids the ins and out of hunting along with helping other family and friends along the way, so whatever that freebie is Im getting I think I am doing my part as a hunter to get those so called Freebies.

I do not have time to correct all the mis-information you have put out in this reply. Apparently you are getting your info from a single NYB member who shows up at camp. I take it you have never belonged to NYB or even investigated what the organization is about, and really have absolutely no idea or really care about what they do, how they function, what they have done for bowhunting, or really anything at all about them. I really don't know how to answer someone who is that removed from the world of organized bowhunting and still making comments on the subject. I guess the best answer is none at all. I really don't want to give you a migraine by making you actually think "too deep" into the subject. I can only say that your entire reply illustrates why bowhunters are so completely disorganized and so completely out of touch with matters involving the defense, promotion, and advancement of bowhunting in NYS. It's because that's the way they want it.

[defrazzle]

You know I never heard of the NYB, nor the sling shot hunters, nor the crossbow hunters and all other "non-traditional firearm" hunters. I guess if someone or group wanted to hunt with a spear, like humans used to, some on this board would find some fault with it. Is it really that important that there is an impression that others are encroaching on what some of the writers here feel is their "territory" and "dates"? Maybe it's just me, but whatever "legal tool", a hunter uses is irrelevant to me. Maybe it's because there is some much land where I hunt (120,000+ acres) and it is the rare day when I hear or see another hunter. What I have been reading seems to be more about the issue that the hunting land and opportunity to hunt is very competitive in the writers areas.

Hunting is hunting and there was a time when there were no seasons. Left to their own devices, we human beings when pressured to the belief that we are loosing our "personal" hunting space will begin to defend it. The verbal fight can be seen here.

Let's keep our hunting traditions alive and not destroy from the inside.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And I assume the "large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over" is a direct quote without any editorializing ..... lol. By the way if there is any way possible, I would like a link to that quote. It's not that I am doubting your word, but I know how some of this stuff can get accidentally misquoted sometimes.

In terms of "elitist crap", I assume you are talking about the crossbow issue. I don't want to get back into that crazy argument other than to say that it is pretty short-sighted to throw a whole bowhunter organization under the bus simply because of a disagreement on such a foolish issue. It does make a convenient issue to try to justify not joining though and there are quite a few people who are using oit exactly that way. By the way, I haven't heard of a whole lot of people who actually tried to join NYB to fight that issue from the inside. That's not quite as easy as sitting on the outside simply sniping at the whole organization over one issue.

As far as the 1% speaking for all, that really is not such a strange condition, especially when you are dealing with a bunch of freeloaders who will take whatever the NYB does for them without bothering to join. Good deal for them .... eh? Also, your spokespeople are not always of your choosing, especially if you choose not to get involved. Those who have the backbone, ambition and dedication to take up the reins of leadership do generally wind up to be the authority that gets the attention of the powers that be. It's the old perception vs. reality argument. And it certainly is not their fault if the rest of the bowhunters fail to have any sense of dedication and organization.

As to your last point, is that some kind of volunteering that I am hearing? That would be a refreshing change to finally hear someone who isn't just content to sit back, bitching all the time, but who actually would put their actions where their mouth is. Certainly it should be easy to wrest control from a mere 1% of the bowhunters. However, don't be surprised if within weeks or months, you become the target of the whining, bitching and moaning, and you wind up with 1% or less of the bowhunters for members. Advocacy groups become excellent targets for petty nit-picking especially when it comes to hunters. And it also seems to be human nature to take whatever freebies that are offered without actually joining. That doesn't seem to bother people one bit.

No Doc that wasnt a quote lol. The crossbow issue is most of what I am referring to, but the general attitude of the NYB also applies. They have no problem alienating other hunters, and thats just not good for the sport as a whole. I cant support an organization like that, and they will never speak for me.

As far as my last point goes, I am in no way volunteering. I simply wouldnt have the time to spend on it. I would certainly join though.

[Pav2704]

You know I never heard of the NYB, nor the sling shot hunters, nor the crossbow hunters and all other "non-traditional firearm" hunters. I guess if someone or group wanted to hunt with a spear, like humans used to, some on this board would find some fault with it. Is it really that important that there is an impression that others are encroaching on what some of the writers here feel is their "territory" and "dates"? Maybe it's just me, but whatever "legal tool", a hunter uses is irrelevant to me. Maybe it's because there is some much land where I hunt (120,000+ acres) and it is the rare day when I hear or see another hunter. What I have been reading seems to be more about the issue that the hunting land and opportunity to hunt is very competitive in the writers areas.

Hunting is hunting and there was a time when there were no seasons. Left to their own devices, we human beings when pressured to the belief that we are loosing our "personal" hunting space will begin to defend it. The verbal fight can be seen here.

Let's keep our hunting traditions alive and not destroy from the inside.

Well Said!!! I couldn't agree more defrazzle!

I have to agree with most comments that having the youth season so early in October will have little effect on the majority. I would think that the temps of the youth season would allow my daughter to sit with me a lot longer and actually enable her to enjoy the experience. I know for sure that a much later date in the season would be very different. Just my opinion.

However, the biggest issue I see is that NYS has a firearm season which takes place during the peak of the rut. I believe that this truly effects the majority of hunters. Most states in the midwest that grow big deer don't have a rifle season peek of the rut. I have to believe that this is the reason why Long Island deer are able to get as big as they do and you hear about big deer taken more often. This, in my opinion, is more of an issue.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Pav2704

[Bow Hunter Addict]

I believe the OCT 1 start has been proposed by DEC and the legislation has been written. But true to NY government its tied to other pieces of legislation. Hope to hear they get this done soon not much happens in Albany during the summer months.

The Oct1 start would make for some great opportunities. The frost has not killed the nutrient value of most crops like clover. Deer are still very pattern able this time of year...... fingers crossed.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well, they have yet to announce any of the 2012-2013 hunting season dates. We will know for sure when they do.

[wdswtr]

I do not have time to correct all the mis-information you have put out in this reply. Apparently you are getting your info from a single NYB member who shows up at camp. I take it you have never belonged to NYB or even investigated what the organization is about, and really have absolutely no idea or really care about what they do, how they function, what they have done for bowhunting, or really anything at all about them. I really don't know how to answer someone who is that removed from the world of organized bowhunting and still making comments on the subject. I guess the best answer is none at all. I really don't want to give you a migraine by making you actually think "too deep" into the subject. I can only say that your entire reply illustrates why bowhunters are so completely disorganized and so completely out of touch with matters involving the defense, promotion, and advancement of bowhunting in NYS. It's because that's the way they want it.

Actually DOC you are absolutely wrong, Yes I was a member, yes I have read every darn magazine that shows up at camp, yes I read and still get all the RED ALERT prewritten bs emails from NYB that do all the thinking for the members who have no idea how to stand up and create there own written opinions to legislatures. See the difference in opinions is in how one wants to interperate what they cram down there members throat.. Again they have done some good but sorry they are the perfect persona of liberal thinking, Show the good they done and never talk about there losses or negative impacts or mistakes that effect other hunters,I have seen and read many articles on NYB from other sources as well and I just do not want them speaking or standing up for me as I do not agree with the vast majority of there agenda. They should stick with what they do best and that is promoting the sport of archery, youth and soldier programs. Sorry but you just dont get new annual members and still never raise your membership numbers for no reason at all. By the way do you have permission from the President and board of directors to be speaking on the behalf of NYB? Is that not written right in there code of ethics? And yes I said Iam a bowhunter and its my prefered choice to hunt with but first and foremost Im a hunter and my head isnt swollen enough to think that my choice is better than any one else choice of how or what they choose to hunt with and nor shall I cram it down anyones throat and brag about it. Instead of dividing the hunters they should damn well focus on uniting them.

[phade]

They are really trying to implement the OCt 1 openiner and youth season for 2012...we will see if the legislators get it done in time.

[nyslowhand]

Yeah, 2012 implementation per all I've heard from DEC.

Fingers were going faster than brain, mis-typed 2013.

[Doc]

Actually DOC you are absolutely wrong, Yes I was a member, yes I have read every darn magazine that shows up at camp, yes I read and still get all the RED ALERT prewritten bs emails from NYB that do all the thinking for the members who have no idea how to stand up and create there own written opinions to legislatures. See the difference in opinions is in how one wants to interperate what they cram down there members throat.. Again they have done some good but sorry they are the perfect persona of liberal thinking, Show the good they done and never talk about there losses or negative impacts or mistakes that effect other hunters,I have seen and read many articles on NYB from other sources as well and I just do not want them speaking or standing up for me as I do not agree with the vast majority of there agenda. They should stick with what they do best and that is promoting the sport of archery, youth and soldier programs. Sorry but you just dont get new annual members and still never raise your membership numbers for no reason at all. By the way do you have permission from the President and board of directors to be speaking on the behalf of NYB? Is that not written right in there code of ethics? And yes I said Iam a bowhunter and its my prefered choice to hunt with but first and foremost Im a hunter and my head isnt swollen enough to think that my choice is better than any one else choice of how or what they choose to hunt with and nor shall I cram it down anyones throat and brag about it. Instead of dividing the hunters they should damn well focus on uniting them.

I know people are getting pretty tired of all this back and forth crap, but then I am not the one who started the malicious, incorrect and, let's call it what it is, basic lying about the way NYB functions. Don't expect me to sit by and let such BS stand without comment.

First of all, I will tell you that I had a bit of a disagreement with NYB policy a few years back relating to the actual bowhunting days lost with the saturday opener activities, and I sent in a letter addressed to the president. Now as NYB has been characterized here, one would expect that that would have been the end of it. Well the fact is that the president of NYB sent back his reply, and we went back and forth about 3 times with e-mail correspondance. Finally he called me on the phone (emphasis on the "he called me") and we talked for over an hour and finally came to an agreement. Now inspite of all the anti-NYB, B.S. to the contrary that is being spewed here, I do not see that as representing a closed organization of elite leadership that does not care about opinions of members. And believe me, I am not anyone special, but just a rank and file member. So I don't know where you and other misinformed people are coming from with these crazy comments, but I will tell you that if you want to take the time to challenge things from within, it can be done. Of course, you do have to have enough interest to speak up rather than just sitting at home mumbling to yourself.

Now, if you have a problem with legislative alerts, I think you had better familiarize yourself with what advocacy organizations do. That is one of their functions in case you weren't aware. It's a tactic that the NRA uses in exactly the same way, but then you probably don't belong to that organization either. But anyway, you can do with these alerts what you want. That's up to you. Nobody's cramming anything down anyone's throat. They are simply providing the information. Don't fault the organization for doing what they are chartered to do. If you want to be ignorant about pending legislation that relates to bowhunting and who and where to send opinions on that info, that is your right. Throw it out. Nobody is going to show up on your door-step. But for those of us who care about such things, it is somewhat dishonest to characterize that as cramming something down your throat. I call it doing their job.

So anyway, if it sounds like I take offense to the malicious and false comments about the NYB being thrown around on this forum, your darned right it pisses me off. I have a lot of respect for the only people that take time out of their busy lives to represent our interests. They're doing a job that no one else has the gumption to do. I don't see anyone else volunteering and yet there are plenty of armchair experts that have plenty to say about how the organization is run when in reality, they truly don't have a clue. So you bet I have a rather short fuse when it comes to those who's only purpose is to simply ensure that bowhunting stays in a disorganized and chaotic state. These are people who would rather see bowhunting decisions left up to those who have no interest in whether bowhunting exists or not. If that is fine with you, so be it. It's a shame that you don't take more interest in an activity that you claim to be so involved with, but neither the NYB or anyone else can change human nature.

[MountainHunter]

"the only people that take time out of their busy lives to represent our interests" If you change the "our" to "their" you would have it right.

It would not surprise me if there were as many former members of NYB as there are current members. I had joined many years ago and over time when I saw how tight their inner circle was and how completely self absorbed they were with their agenda to the detriment of other hunters I terminated my membership. Clearly my experience with them wasn't unique.

[erussell]

NYBOW, NYCROSSBOW, NYMUZZLELOADER, NYTRAPPING. BLAH DE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! I am just about sick of all these specialty hunting gangs and that is all they are. Thugs. How about a NY hunting and fishing in general orginization seeking to open up new opportunities for all sportsmanl!!! If these supposed smart people dont pull their heads out of there arses soon we may not have hunting for anything in the next 20 yrs. So lets all lay off the PETER measuring and get down to the business of opening opportunities up for all NY sportsman.

Edited June 7, 2012 by erussell

[wdswtr]

DOC you have little to no knowledge of what myself, most other bowhunters or other hunters that are not a NYB member has done to promote or get invovled in. Commenting in such a manner that you feel NYB is the only people in this state that does is silly. I have already stated things I do or have done to voice my concerns and opinions. I respect your opinion and right to voice your concern and stance on NYB. You saying "If you want to be ignorant about pending legislation that relates to bowhunting and who and where to send opinions on that info, that is your right. Throw it out. Nobody is going to show up on your door-step. But for those of us who care about such things", is B.S. in itself. there is no ignorance on pending legislation nor is there ignorance on where to send opinions, you see I have my own opinion that is not made up for me and a written letter ready for me to cut and paste to an email address in my name. I will and do voice my own opinion and concerns. I do and will write my own with my own words. You keep calling BS, basic lying and false info but the thing is you are stating things about me and other non NYB or former NYB members that are absolutely false. Call it lying ,bs or whatever you feel the need to do. Which is just another reason why I do not let NYB or want NYB speaking on my behalf. Feel free to get the last word in and I will call it a dead debate and get back to the original post.

Edited June 7, 2012 by wdswtr

[Doc]

DOC you have little to no knowledge of what myself, most other bowhunters or other hunters that are not a NYB member has done to promote or get invovled in. Commenting in such a manner that you feel NYB is the only people in this state that does is silly. I have already stated things I do or have done to voice my concerns and opinions. I respect your opinion and right to voice your concern and stance on NYB. You saying "If you want to be ignorant about pending legislation that relates to bowhunting and who and where to send opinions on that info, that is your right. Throw it out. Nobody is going to show up on your door-step. But for those of us who care about such things", is B.S. in itself. there is no ignorance on pending legislation nor is there ignorance on where to send opinions, you see I have my own opinion that is not made up for me and a written letter ready for me to cut and paste to an email address in my name. I will and do voice my own opinion and concerns. I do and will write my own with my own words. You keep calling BS, basic lying and false info but the thing is you are stating things about me and other non NYB or former NYB members that are absolutely false. Call it lying ,bs or whatever you feel the need to do. Which is just another reason why I do not let NYB or want NYB speaking on my behalf. Feel free to get the last word in and I will call it a dead debate and get back to the original post.

I have heard all of the excuses that people have for not belonging to advocacy organizations. There are all kinds of concocted reasons. It's not just NYB, but I have heard the same crap about the NRA. But I will say that it is one thing to simply not be a "joiner", and quite another to come onto a forum making unsubstantiated allegations with the obvious intent to talk potential members away from joining. There is something kind of insidious about a bowhunter actively trying to keep bowhunters in a totally disorganized and legislatively ineffective state. I understand anti-hunting and animal rights people trying to destroy any attempt at organizing bowhunters, but it is not a behavior I expect from our own ranks.

Personally I strongly believe that we need to be organized to react to challenges to our sport. Apparently you do not. That I can live with ...... no harm - no foul .... just incorrect reasoning. However, when someone comes on here spewing false allegations and trying to disrupt those that do believe that bowhunters should be organized, you can always expect a reaction from me.

[defrazzle]

NYBOW, NYCROSSBOW, NYMUZZLELOADER, NYTRAPPING. BLAH DE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! .....................So lets all lay off the PETER measuring and get down to the business of opening opportunities up for all NY sportsman.

Amen - Enough Said

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, the problem with your analogy between NYB and the NRA is that the NRA does not try to segment the Pro-2A community, they try to join them together. Thats not what NYB does.

[Doc]

Doc, the problem with your analogy between NYB and the NRA is that the NRA does not try to segment the Pro-2A community, they try to join them together. Thats not what NYB does.

Look, if people want to find fault with the NRA, there are plenty right here on this forum that already have done so. And I'm sure you don't have to stretch your memory too much to recall the anti-NRA rhetoric that has been aired here. Everyone who doesn't want to support advocacy organizations seems not to have any real problems with concocting excuses. We've heard them all. NYB was formed to act as an advocacy group for bowhunters. They have there hands full with that. They were not formed to be advocates for crossbows, muzzleloaders, shotguns, rifles, spears, tomahawks or pistols. They are doing what they were formed to do which is 100% focused on bows and arrows and the protection of bowhunting as a viable hunting method.

If anyone has been paying any attention at all in recent years, it is obvious that there are a lot of people who now have their eyes on the bow season and are feverishly doing their best to shoe-horn themselves into those weeks and parcel it up for their own use. Is there anyone who is going to seriously deny that? And yes, the bowhunters have found themselves in a defensive posture trying to fend off aggression from others. And yes, that is exactly what the NYB was formed for, and they are doing their job. For those that have problems with bowhunting as a special season or even a hunting activity, with archery oriented special regulations, I can see where they might want to believe that the NYB positions are unreasonably intransigent. They would rather the NYB simply roll over for any special interest group that comes along and demands their piece of the bow season as they take turns parceling it up. I applaud and respect the NYB for not doing that. They are doing the job that they were formed to do.

[skyhunter]

I live to bowhunt. I have bowhunted all over the country and have lived and bowhunted New York state for 30 years; nothern and southern zone.

As far as the NYB goes, they can take their elitist ideology and shove it up their elitist rear end!