US Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare Health Mandate

[adirondackbushwhack]

I have very little thinking in common with this current president, but some one a page or so back asked the question of "What are the alternatives". It's all well and good to throw the stones, and many of the complaints are absolutely spot on. But I still have to ask where are (or were) the competing plans to solve the health insurance situation. Obviously health care is on the fast track to becoming unaffordable ..... anyone arguing about that? All the brilliant minds in the country, and I have not heard anyone come up with even a suggestion of another approach to the problem. They have been picking around the edges with tort reform and other obscure meaningless things. But where are the comprehensive plans? Did I miss them somewhere along the line?

Its on the fast track to be unaffordable largely due to government mandates. Look at how much Obama care has driven it up already.

Edited June 29, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't think anyone really has one Doc...and that is the problem. I can't help but thisnk though that most of the problem is the mixing of private combined with the Govt's fingers in things. That mix never seems to work. I am a firm believer that the market for any product will seek it's own lowest possible level if the Govt's manipulating fingers are kept out of it.

Regulations for out of area insurance and crap like that, I believe keeps commpetition limited and prices higher. EPA?? FDA??? pick your flavor of alphabet soup. Over sight is one thing but their fingers are in there again. True competition would keep the cost down but that isn't going to be allowed to happen.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have very little thinking in common with this current president, but some one a page or so back asked the question of "What are the alternatives". It's all well and good to throw the stones, and many of the complaints are absolutely spot on. But I still have to ask where are (or were) the competing plans to solve the health insurance situation. Obviously health care is on the fast track to becoming unaffordable ..... anyone arguing about that? All the brilliant minds in the country, and I have not heard anyone come up with even a suggestion of another approach to the problem. They have been picking around the edges with tort reform and other obscure meaningless things. But where are the comprehensive plans? Did I miss them somewhere along the line?

There isnt going to be one singular fix. The health insurance cost problem is due to many things, such as the lawsuit industry, not allowing interstate competition among the insurance companies, illegal aliens, the current welfare system, and other things that I probably have no idea of. All of these factors contribute to the rising cost of healthcare and other things as well. Obama care is merely sidestepping the real fixes to the problem.

I dont claim to know everything about the healthcare industry or how to fix everything about it, but from what I read about and see and hear, it doesnt seem to me that we are currently even addressing the real problems here. As far as I see it, we are trying to cure a symptom instead of the disease.

[SteveB]

It's not really on topic, but I have to comment on this notion that unhealthy habits cost us more money. I have yet to be convinced that people with unhealthy habits and lifstyles cost us anywhere near what it costs to keep all the health nuts for years and years on their preventive medication and procedures and then eventually in nursing homes for decades.

Anyone ever consider what the alternatives are to people dying early from their health neglect. Does anyone think that it is not a super costly venture to be constantly expanding the life expectancy. I love the term preventive health care .... as if you can actually cheat death and prevent inevitable health problems. The only real difference is that the ones with bad health habits leave us sooner. It's all a question of timing, and longer is not cheaper. Sure it's nice that we can maybe add a few years onto our lives and enjoy some extra time here, but let's not think that the benefit is in anyway financial. I don't believe it for a minute.

Got to agree - I've often wondered if there has been any real comparison done.

[dave6x6]

For me it starts with the most basic premiss in this case being flawed.. That is that it is the govt. responsability to make sure every american has health care. No i'm sorry but that is not a role of the Federal Government. That is an entitlement. Maybe at the state level the people can decide whether they want their tax money to go towards that but not on a national level. History has proven time and time again, that there is nothing the feds can do better or more efficiently or without levels of corruption that the private sector can't do better. Eg. postal service, social security, medicare, energy ect... There are plans out there but they never get reported on because we have already accepted that national healthcare is the way to go and that will always mean political fighting, devision and waste. Common sense de-regulation, open the market to compitition across state lines and allow the people to shop for their insurance like we do now for autos. And allow incentives and tax credits for low income people to purchase their own economy plans voluntarily. Affordable healthcare for all. All these will lower costs and spurr private industry growth and good paying middle class jobs.

[Grouse]

Our current system is broken, but ObamaCare is like curing a headache by putting a bullet through your head. There are plenty of alternatives to fix our healthcare problems, but none give the government as much control, which is their main objective, and none allow special interests to make as much money, which is why they donated so much to Obama and the Democrats.

Ask yourself this, Why did things work fine decades ago in the 50's and 60's, but they don't work now?"

Answer: Government interference, lawyers and corporate greed.

Think ObamaCare will reduce the influence of any of those things?

[Elmo]

You can be sure that so called "green" products will be next on the list of mandated items. Energy efficient autos and homes.too.

I have less of a problem with this than a health bill pushed on me because frankly, some strangers carbon emissions impacts me directly while their health does not.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I have less of a problem with this than a health bill pushed on me because frankly, some strangers carbon emissions impacts me directly while their health does not.

At least that's what the gov/media complex wants you t believe. Now you are willing to spend lots of money on so called green stuff.

[Doc]

Ask yourself this, Why did things work fine decades ago in the 50's and 60's, but they don't work now?"

Lol .... I've got this one.

Along came the miracle age of billions of dollars of research in wonder-drug creation which corporations want to get a return on in the first year through ridiculous prices. These wonder drugs and exhorbitant medical and surgical procedures in turn has made people think that they can live forever. In fact it has made them demand that they live forever regardless of cost. In fact all that has been so successful, that they can keep a body alive long after you have ceased to actually function as a thinking human being (and in some cases actually do). Now people (myself included) make regular routine visits to doctors, and get prescribed some of these wonder drugs with daily dosages at ridiculous costs. We are now chemically regulated. Also, we now have regular tests that check for inclinations toward certain diseases that then lead to more medications and more super-expensive exotic medical procedures. Never mind that many of these tests are flawed and commonly return false positives. With all this medical coddling, the costs for eternal life are way beyond anything that anyone other than the independantly wealthy can possibly afford so insurance is the tool that we use to achieve our present day version of immortality. Well, there's no such thing as a free lunch, so somebody has to pay the exhorbitant bills for all this. And we have not yet even scratched the surface as to what great new expensive drugs and procedures that medical scientist can concoct to insure their accumulation of wealth. In fact it is accelerating. Remember, these things are all happening at our own demand. So naturally insurance costs are going through the roof. I'm not even sure how much greed is actually due to insurance companies.

Prior to the 60's, death was an accepted inevitability that everyone accepted, and they had a much more realistic view of how the birth-life-death cycle actually works. I remember farmers and others that didn't even know what health insurance was, and had absolutely no need for such nonsense. Today it is an expected right.

Oh sure there is some litigious notions that have caused doctors to take defensive expensive policies that have been passed on in their fees. And there are new welfare situations and outside forces that take advantage of our system, and many other smaller pieces to the puzzle. But the primary culprit is our own unrealistic demand to live forever at whatever cost it takes. It's now institutionalized. How are you going to fight that?

But anyway, in answer to your question, I believe this is the primary answer as to what has happened since the 50's and 60's that has turned health care into the 800 pound gorilla.

[wdswtr]

So let me see if I understand. I will start on a company level, Company XYZ has done some homework and finds that it is much cheaper to pay the penalty(ooops I mean tax) than to provide health coverage for there employees. So not only does the company pay into the government for this the employees will to for not having "adequate" health coverage. So that piece of shit we call our president not only gets penalties payed ( darn it I mean tax) in to the government for individuals but companies as well. Well unless you happened to be a Obama supporting company then you might get the Admit One ticket. SO due tell me who the hell wins in this situation? Its certainly not the employees or the working class americans in this country, Its the government and the welfare class that win. This is a joke a complete udder joke. When half or more of you yay sayers lose your health coverage from your employer you will think different about this. The thing that is left wide open is exacally what is ADEQUATE health coverage in Obamas Plan? There is no reason to be a working american other than self pride any longer. Why is there? When you can get a free ride through life on the curtails of the working class americans. Im sick over this.

[greenecounty]

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Well the worst that could happen is a civil war over this, and if the righties lose, then theoretically we'll have a nation of only receivers. All the producers will be dead and there'll be only consumers. You can't have half takin' without half makin'. So rest assured it will correct itself, one extreme or another.

P.s. I'll see ya when the smoke clears patriots.

[wooffer]

This video clip of President Barack reading from his book basically sums up what went wrong with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrZ25jvcacA

[ants]

Taxes and penalties, on people who don't buy insurance and on employers, is how the whole thing was meant to be funded from day one. They know what they're doing. They are DIRTY BASTARDS!! Remember that. They they will do anything to push their agenda and they think you are stupid and that only they know whats best.

[ants]

Taxes and penalties, on people who don't buy insurance and on employers, is how the whole thing was meant to be funded from day one. They know what they're doing. They are DIRTY BASTARDS!! Remember that. They they will do anything to push their agenda and they think you are stupid and that only they know whats best.

[Grouse]

Here's the best question to ask about Obamacare.....How come all the elected officials who voted this into law also exempted themselves and their families from being forced onto it??

That tells you all you need to know.

[Grouse]

From Roberts himself!!

The chief justice, while he may take heat from his conservative peers for the ruling, said the decision on the wisdom of the law will ultimately be left to the voters. "We do not consider whether the act embodies sound policies," he wrote. "That judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders."

Roberts went on to say the court's role is to interpret the law, not ma...ke policy judgments which is for lawmakers "who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

Now lets see if this wakes up Americans or not. If the government can tell you that you have to have insurance what else can they cram up your arse!!

[wdswtr]

Been thinking about the move Roberts made. Could it possibly have been planned, I mean he turns it into a TAX, which I think would be the biggest tax deal this bation has seen. In which case I wonder if his thought to do this was not to side on Obama Care but to push more americans to vote republican this fall. Could he have thrown himself under the bus to stop Obama from getting re-elected? Im trying to find the postive in such a negative outcome!!!!

[adirondackbushwhack]

Been thinking about the move Roberts made. Could it possibly have been planned, I mean he turns it into a TAX, which I think would be the biggest tax deal this bation has seen. In which case I wonder if his thought to do this was not to side on Obama Care but to push more americans to vote republican this fall. Could he have thrown himself under the bus to stop Obama from getting re-elected? Im trying to find the postive in such a negative outcome!!!!

There is no positive in this. Thre supreme court is ruled by politics rather than the constitution. The constitution is now meaningless. The government can now do what ever they want to us.

Edited July 1, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[Grouse]

I strongly disagree.

Here's the answer to questions about why Roberts did what he did. He did the right thing.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/the_chief_justice_done_good.html#ixzz1zBvCEfVQ

[adirondackbushwhack]

Really? So you don't see the ability to impose a tax as force?

Its a propaghanda piece pure and simple. But if we don't agree with it we are just not smart enough to understand that the ability to tax is not force. They can't order us to buy something but they can order us to pay if we don't buy what they want us to. Please give me a break with that crap.

And what about the great turn Roberts has done the republican party according to the piece? You find that a judge deciding because of politics is better than deciding according to the constitution?

Look the pols have been telling you for years that they don't like the constitution ( "it's a living breathing document") (that part no longer applies to a modern society) etc.... So they load the courts with guys who will vote the way they want them to instead of those who will decide by law.

So disagree if ya want but pay up for Obama care and be ready to die when services are cut because there isn't enough money to go around. And the next time the government wants to impose something on ya be ready to pay up again too. Thanks Roberts.

[adirondackbushwhack]

Oh and one more thing. Who needs those dopes to tell us that when the government takes our money it's a tax? What else would it be?

[WNYBuckHunter]

adirondack, did you actually read the article, or maybe look into who the author is?

A tax can be removed easily. Obama ran on the premise that he would not raise any new taxes on the middle class, but the SCOTUS just pushed him out of that closet by making it clear that Obamacare is in fact a tax, and not a mandate. That say one thing and then raise taxes bit has cost re-elections in the past. Need I remind you to "read my lips, no new taxes."?

Dont get me wrong, I do not agree with Obamacare, but this just may turn out to be the rallying cry that is needed to get the current administration out, seeing as all we have to work with is Romney....

[adirondackbushwhack]

adirondack, did you actually read the article, or maybe look into who the author is?

A tax can be removed easily. Obama ran on the premise that he would not raise any new taxes on the middle class, but the SCOTUS just pushed him out of that closet by making it clear that Obamacare is in fact a tax, and not a mandate. That say one thing and then raise taxes bit has cost re-elections in the past. Need I remind you to "read my lips, no new taxes."?

Dont get me wrong, I do not agree with Obamacare, but this just may turn out to be the rallying cry that is needed to get the current administration out, seeing as all we have to work with is Romney....

Did anybody ever think that when the government takes yer money it isn't a tax? The governments track record for removing taxes hasn't really met my expectations so far and I have no reason to believe that they have any intentions on removing this one either; and even if some actually do have those intentions that they will be able to do so. Not that I really believe that either party has intentions of doing anyhting other than making noise and making sure the tax stands.

[Grouse]

The point of the article is that the Congress has the power to tax you for anything it deems taxable. Roberts rightfully found that is what they did and it is Constitutional. But he also voided any sense Congress can impose any control over all things via the Commerce Clause. That is a significant legal precedent by the SCOTUS and puts a stop to decades of legal abuse under that premise.

I don't want Obamacare on the books, but I understand the only way to get it off is to elect government officials that actually represent the people and freedom. That is what Roberts wanted this country to understand and that is why he ruled the way he did, which is the only legal way the SCOTUS could've ruled. Roberts simply points out the government is not your friend and it has powers many in this land doesn't think it does, or feel it would never exercise. Wrong!

If you don't see it as an eye opener to the fact the government can impose it's will on you by force at anytime, as long as the people we elected choose to do so, you don't understand the ruling and how it may be the best thing that ever happened to Conservatives in the history of this country.

What America needs to learn from this is, our government is a big threat and you'd better be careful who you vote for.