Perplexing Questions...

[MuzzyLoader]

Okay... so I've been bowhunting for some time now and have shot longbow, recurve and compound. My draw with a longbow and the recurve was 28". Now that I'm getting older it seems my draw length has shortened. I need a 27" (so I'm told).

So, with that in mind... Should my compound cam be 26" and my 'loop' be 1" so I actually draw 27" total? Would it be smarter to have the cam set at 27" and have no 'loop'?

I know w/o the loop I'd get a couple more fps out of the bow (but to me speed ain't everything). I also heard that sometimes you can't draw directly from the string because you might get something called an arrow pinch(?).

What are your thoughts, comments, etc...

[burmjohn]

I like the loop b/c of less wear and tear and from what I read a truer flying arrow out of the gate b/c the pull is spread across two points.

[fasteddie]

A 1" loop is a bit long ..............I have a 28" draw and the loop just affects the anchor point .

[wdswtr]

A loop does not effect your draw length just your anchor point of your release and hand.

Edited July 19, 2012 by wdswtr

[MuzzyLoader]

Okay... so why am I hitting my forearm with a 7" brace height? Isn't it because my draw is too long?

[SteveB]

Okay... so why am I hitting my forearm with a 7" brace height? Isn't it because my draw is too long?

Elbow position in your bow arm.

[wdswtr]

I will use an example. My string/nock anchors in the corner of my mouth. Changing draw length would make that either move back or move forward. Adding a loop does not change where the string/nock anchors. My guess is your hitting your arm from not bending your elbow or maybe fist gripping the bow. If you hold your hand out in front of you and make a fist straighten your arm out and point your elbow down you can see how it rotates your arm into the bow. Now rotate your elbow outwords and you can see how it takes your arm away from the bow. Add a little bend in the elbow and it even puts the string farther away from your forearm. Now doing this also changes the way you grip the bow but should also take some torqing away when you shoot. A wrist strap really helps out with holding your bow to your grip. Second thing that comes to mind is maybe your back wall on your draw is soft. Meaning you hit the stoppiing point, or where one should be when you are at full draw and then are able to pull back the bow just a tad more which has a tendancy to straighten your elbow. I had this problem with one of my first bows and cant recomend a hard back wall on your draw enough. When you draw back , there is no more pulling it back further. The last thing is your draw length very well could be wrong, could have been wrong for a very long time but never noticed due to the type of bow and your form. We all fight with a consistant form and lots of times I have seen this actually be the problem as well. Without consciously knowing it changed. So If tis was me I would first check the way I am holding the bow and position of my elbow and where the string(not the loop) hits oon my face (anchor point) if it is farther back than it should be you are either pulling past the wall on the draw or your draw length is off. Hope this helps and maybe (IM sure) others will chime in on there take.

Edited July 19, 2012 by wdswtr

[NFA-ADK]

I do not want to get into another argument about draw length etc. BUT

I went from a 28 1/2 inch draw on my MQ1 with no D-loop and a string release. Never had a problem with shooting or accuracy... No problems with knock pinch...

My anchor point was at the corner of my mouth.

Then I went to a helium 28" with a D-loop and it change the length of the draw/anchor point due to a extra 1/4 on the bow string and the d-loop added another 1/2 inch. This resulted an anchor point that is now at the back of my jaw bone under my ear. I still shoot good with both bow's yet I feel a little overdrawn with the d-loop and extra 1/4 inch on the string draw.

Best thing I can tell you is to try shooting at the archery dealer you are going to buy your bow from, this way if anything does not feel right they can adjust the length of the string or what ever to make it feel proper. As long as speed is not a concern do not worry about a few fps it will not make a dif when shooting at prey unless you plan on shooting further than 50 + yards which is not advisable IMO due to prey jumping the string, yet you can do it if they are sleeping or in a stationary spot where they can not jump like when lying down... Other option at long distance to prevent this is using a call when shooting to disguese the string release, yet I have not tried this yet...

D-loop does not make the bow slower,unless you go to a lower draw length but it will still be faster than anything you have shot before so loosing a few fps on a 270-340 fps bow is irrelevant. I went to a heavyer arrow due to arrow wobble and lost a few fps yet I still do not notice it untile I shoot past 55-65 yards... Note if you go with a lower draw length you can shorten your arrows slightly to get back a few fps if you are that concerned.

Most importian thing is feel, even though I felt off a little bit with the new bow, I like it. After shooting for a week I found my sweet spot for my anchor point. At the back of my jaw bone is perfect for the new bow and I have become comfortable with it. Just feels strange when I pick up my old mq1 as a spare and shoot with my corner mouth release position. Now the MQ1 feels like it is under drawn...

As long as it feels right you will be happy. Good luck with it!!!

I shoot at suffolk archers often, we have tournaments every weekend. Anyone who wants to come and shoot at 3d targets with me is more than welcome!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Its physically impossible to change draw length with a d loop, all you do is change your anchor point. Whether your d loop is 1/2" or 2", the bow still moves the same distance between the resting point and full draw.

You feel overdrawn because your anchor point is different.

For example, my Hoyt Maxxis' draw length is adjusted by using different modules and string twist. If I do not change my module or string twist, but put on a longer d loop, the draw length does not change, just the distance of my release from the riser, but it changes at rest and at full draw by an equal amount.

[ncountry]

Its physically impossible to change draw length with a d loop, all you do is change your anchor point. Whether your d loop is 1/2" or 2", the bow still moves the same distance between the resting point and full draw.

You feel overdrawn because your anchor point is different.

What you say is true....But .... If you add a 1/2" D loop to a string, it makes your bow FEEL like it has a 1/2" longer draw length. If someone has a proper anchor point that they are comfortable with, and that they shoot well with, they need to set their bow up with a 1/2" shorter draw length in order to maintain a proper anchor point.

[wdswtr]

WNY is absolutely correct, draw lenfth and anchor point are two totally different things. Shortening draw length to compensate for your new anchor point after adding a D loop takes one problem away and adds another. Proper draw length in my opinion is far more important than adjusting to a new anchor point. A much better option might be and adjustable release that lets you move the trigger assy closer to your palm, but yet again that even changes the way your trigger finger feel now has to trip the release. My suggestion would be after shooting a few hundred arrows you will never reconize your old anchor point after you put a D loop on. One thing I would love to hear is what you all judge your anchor point by? This is what can mislead alot of people when anyone talks about it. Do you go by where your loop and release touch your face, where you might place a thumb, where your trigger finger is located? When one says there anchor point is now behind there ear exacally what is being refered too?

[ncountry]

I see your point.. For me my anchor point is mostly about my arm ,hand,and body position. I see that if one uses the position of string as there main point of reference they would need to adjust their arm and hand placements. But doesn't this start to lead one into becoming over extended if they were already using "proper" form ?

[phade]

Shoot like Dave Watson maybe? LOL. I get a crack out of seeing him shooting a bow.

I'd go to the bow shop and test things out...get the proper DL and then go from there.

[Doewhacker]

I found this on a web site and thought it might help clear things up for some....

"Draw Length is the distance from the nock point to the throat of the grip plus 1 3/4". Typically, this length will also be about the same length of arrow needed by the compound archer. To measure your draw length, stand with your back to a wall stretching your arms out against the wall. Measure the distance from the end of your middle finger to the end of your other middle finger, basically the length of both arms, hands and chest. This measurement, minus 15 then divided by 2, is your draw length. Resist the temptation to make your draw length longer than it should be, as this will affect your accuracy. Your wingspan typically is the same as your height in inches. So your height in inches minus 15 and then divided by 2 will be your draw length, or at least a very good starting point. Just use our handy dandy draw length calculator at the top of this page.

Will a string loop change my draw length?Since the draw length is the distance from the nock point to the throat of the grip plus 1 3/4", adding a string loop cannot change the bow's draw length. BUT, it will change your anchor point moving it back 1/2" to 3/4". This will make it feel like your draw length is longer. If you want your same anchor point, then you will need to shorten the bow's draw length by about a 1/2" to move your anchor point back up to your preference."

I will add my thought's aswell, new bows have differing axle to axle lenghts, the shorter the bow the tighter the pinch at the nock will be. This is where string loops shine in negating that pinch. I recomend a string loop for newer bows. Now the shorter bows also can allow guys to shoot a longer draw length too, not that they have too but the angle of the string is such that the peep gets moved further away from your eye on a shorter bow and if you are like me the string touches the end of my nose and that would change with a shorter bow too. Bottom line is get the proper draw legnth for what ever specific bow you shoot and then worry about the anchor point, anchor points can be changed as described by the other poster's here. Draw legnth's should not be stretched or shortened IN MY OPINION. Take every one's advice with a grain of salt and do what works for you.

As far as the string slaping your arm, as the others said try rolling your elbow, I have found that my Parker's cables are very close to the string and also my arm. Its one of those things that bugs the crap out of me but not much I can do about it other than buying a new Hoyt.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Doewhacker

[WNYBuckHunter]

One thing I would love to hear is what you all judge your anchor point by? This is what can mislead alot of people when anyone talks about it. Do you go by where your loop and release touch your face, where you might place a thumb, where your trigger finger is located? When one says there anchor point is now behind there ear exacally what is being refered too?

I shoot with a kisser, makes it real simple. Kisser in the corner of my mouth, proper loose grip and and trigger finger just under my ear, I know Im anchored correctly.

[MuzzyLoader]

WOW... the amount of information on this thread is overwhelming!

I've been out shooting... I've found my arm WAS more comfortable when it was rolled in verses rolled out. I also noticed my cables are VERY CLOSE to my arm (I'm shooting a Bowtech Equalizer). I don't get hit very often, but when I do... WOW!

I've also noticed that my draw length is set correct (26.5")... according to the calculations noted above. When I tried to roll my arm out away from the bow the cams started to slam forward (hard). It was difficult for me to hold the string - the bow wanted to 'shoot'... right now! My anchor point is comfortable where it is now. I have a kisser button, the peep is secured with wrapping (so that hasn't moved), and my release is the same one I've been using for several years (albeit has stretched a bit over time).

I absolutely enjoyed shooting this bow... but I feel like a fish out of water right now shooting it. I'm all out-of-wack (even though the arrows are hitting the target straight, penetrating deep, and actually hitting where I'm aiming).

I think I'll go over to Barrett's and ask Don check me out. He's the largest Matthew's dealer in NYS, so I've been a whole lota' reluctant to go in asking for help carrying a Bowtech.