send letters for crossbows in NY

[Gthphtm]

According to another website,It was signed and will be legal in New York.Where it will be put???.

[WNYBuckHunter]

According to another website,It was signed and will be legal in New York.Where it will be put???.

It was passed by the Senate and is currently sitting on the Governor's desk. The link to the bill has been posted on here multiple times.

[solon]

crossbows are guns....if u want to use them, then use them when it's gun season...they are firearms, not even close to a real bow. Someone explain how the skill to use a crossbow is the same as "real" bow and maybe I'll buy into the scam...

[SteveB]

crossbows are guns....if u want to use them, then use them when it's gun season...they are firearms, not even close to a real bow

I need to do this in a cut and paste for the uninformed.

Crossbows have been around at least 2400 years - at least 1000 years before gunpowder and guns where invented. Guns use powder and go bang - bows are string powered. Pretty simple actually - or should be.

Someone explain how the skill to use a crossbow is the same as "real" bow

By real bow, you mean a recurve or longbow?

Or do you mean a 30" ata, up to 99% letoff, fall away rest, with a scope and magnafied peep, and a release with a trigger where your fingers never touch the string?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Dont forget Steve, most of the national as well as international archery associations classify crossbows as archery equipment. 

[burmjohn]

99% Let off? Magnified peep? Is there such a thing Maybe I am out of the (release) loop.

Again I'm really on the fence on this issue.....  I'm trying to impartial.  But I'm 32 years old, at 15 I got my first bow, and a compound bow was handed to me, and that's what I have used for the last 16 years.  I started with shooting with my fingers, only went to a release 4 years ago to be honest.  Shooting a compound bow with a site, peep, 65% let off is not easy.  Maybe at 10 yards, but at 20,30,40 its a diff story. Maybe I am a shitty shot.  I did shoot a crossbow, at my buddies in PA, first shot dead on at 40 yards.  2nd shot at 50 yards dead on (slightly low).  It did feel like a gun in my hands, and its not the same as a compound bow, or any bow for that matter.  What I do know, is I am 100% for anyone with any disability that prevents that from using a old style bow or modern bow to use a crossbow in archery.  And there is no reason why a crossbow shouldn't be allowed in rifle season. 

[Doc]

99% Let off? Magnified peep? Is there such a thing Maybe I am out of the (release) loop.

Again I'm really on the fence on this issue.....  I'm trying to impartial.  But I'm 32 years old, at 15 I got my first bow, and a compound bow was handed to me, and that's what I have used for the last 16 years.  I started with shooting with my fingers, only went to a release 4 years ago to be honest.  Shooting a compound bow with a site, peep, 65% let off is not easy.  Maybe at 10 yards, but at 20,30,40 its a diff story. Maybe I am a shitty shot.  I did shoot a crossbow, at my buddies in PA, first shot dead on at 40 yards.  2nd shot at 50 yards dead on (slightly low).  It did feel like a gun in my hands, and its not the same as a compound bow, or any bow for that matter.  What I do know, is I am 100% for anyone with any disability that prevents that from using a old style bow or modern bow to use a crossbow in archery.  And there is no reason why a crossbow shouldn't be allowed in rifle season.

By the way, everyone keeps talking about crossbows for the infirm like there is no physical effort in using them. That 150 # or so still has to be cocked doesn't it? And also I keep hearing about how heavy they are and how awkward. It seems like those that are pushing crossbows have the longest list of why they are a foolish choice of weapons and how difficult they are to shoot.

But anyway, it would seem to me that anyone having physical difficulties with their bow might better go get one of those 99% let-off bows that Steve is always talking about. Of course for some reason I have never seen one for sale locally and there is some reason why that particular let-off feature has not been adopted by almost all bow manufacturers. I don't think it is a hot seller .... lol. Also since he and others are always talking about how easy it is to shoot compounds, I'm still trying to see why anyone who is physically challenged would even want one. Frankly, when I get in that condition, assuming I can still even get around, I will most likely opt for the smarter choice .... a gun.

Doc

[bubba]

compared to a recurve or long bow, a compound is easy to shoot.  Try a recurve with no sites and shoot it until you are profecient, and then tell me how tough a compound is

[Doc]

compared to a recurve or long bow, a compound is easy to shoot.  Try a recurve with no sites and shoot it until you are profecient, and then tell me how tough a compound is

For quite a few years, traditional archery was the only way I hunted. I've done both and for a lot of years. What I found out was that both traditional and compounds require the same dedication to shooting form and execution. The compound is easier than traditional only because of the let-off. Every other shooting feature is identical. Consistancy in anchor, draw length, back tension, bow arm position, stance, sight picture, muscle alignment in both arms, Hand position and bow grip, follow-through, hand torque control, and a whole pile of mental control features are all required in order to shoot any bow. Longbows, recurves, and compounds all require the same disciplines. There are a few features about traditional equipment that are actually superior such as the light weight of the bow, and overall reliability. As far as instinctive shooting, either traditional bows or compounds can be shot that way as well as both can be outfitted with sights, so there is no difference there either. Releases for both can be mechanical or fingers. Let-off is the absolute only positive difference. And if you're a finger shooter, let-off is a negative in terms of achieving a consistant crisp release. It also can be a negative in terms of follow-through and torque.

So yes each type of bow requires exactly the same disciplines as far as successful accurate shooting. Those of us who have spent years shooting both understand that.

Doc   

[SteveB]

And one is far, far easier to obtain and keep hunting proficiency with. Ignoring that does not make it go away. There is a reason why less then 5% of hunters in the bow season use traditional equipment. And it's not because they take the same commitment to be hunting proficient.

[bubba]

umm you forgot to mention the sights on a compound. To me that seems to be an advantage. Or do you shoot instinct with your compound?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Burmjohn, yes there are magnified "scopes" for bows. They started out being used mostly for shooting spots, now some use them for hunting as well.

Doc, there are crossbows setup for the disabled that have crank draws and such.

[SteveB]

There are clarifier peeps - up to 8x.

The letoff is what makes the use of sites so effective.

[Doc]

umm you forgot to mention the sights on a compound. To me that seems to be an advantage. Or do you shoot instinct with your compound?

I believe I did speak about that when I said, "As far as instinctive shooting, either traditional bows or compounds can be shot that way as well as both can be outfitted with sights, so there is no difference there either." We used to have a category in NFAA competition called "Bare Bow" which was basically instinctive and most guys were using compounds when I was involved. By the way, I watched an exhibition shooter over at Creekside Gun Shop who did include an instinctive exhibition with a compound. Also I might add that sights on recurves are not exactly odd or rare.

Doc

[Doc]

There are clarifier peeps - up to 8x.

The letoff is what makes the use of sites so effective.

Actually, the jury is out as far as how effective they really are. You really don't see a whole lot of guys using them do you? If they were all that effective, you would see them on every bow, kind of like nearly every rifle and shotgun and crossbow have.

I had one for tournament shooting years ago and it was pretty good in well lit shooting ranges and indoor ranges. Nothing like a rifle scope by any stretch of the imagination, but it did help somewhat. Needless to say it never went on my hunting bow. They are not the multi-optic, gas-filled, light gathering scopes that are commonly used on rifles, shotguns and crossbows or even close. Another thing if you can imagine it, just think of the difficulty of trying to keep a bow steady enough to use 8X magnification. It's not like you can drop down your bi-pod or get down into a prone position, or bench rest your bow on a downed log or something .... lol.

[SteveB]

I was was refering to the clarifying peep site which is a magnifier - not the site itself which someone who has spent years shooting should easily understand. Ido know several who use both them and scopes as sites - most 2 to 4 power.

Sites have been used on recurves for a long time, but the fact is they are much easier to use and far more effective to use on a compound then a recurve. Why? For one simple reason - letoff. One only has to look the fact 99% of compounds have them and 99% of recurves don't.

Once again - there is a reason why fewer then 5% of those shooting arrows for hunting do it with a recurve/lb - it is far harder to become and maintain shooting proficiency. What is your reason Doc for hanging up the recurve? It's not because a compound is more challanging.

If bowseason's where made recurve/compound only, then in a few years i would not be surprized if we lost far more then 1/2 our bowhunters. It wouldn't be because shooting recurves and compounds are equally difficult.

[sits in trees]

There are clarifier peeps - up to 8x.

The letoff is what makes the use of sites so effective.

Actually, the jury is out as far as how effective they really are. You really don't see a whole lot of guys using them do you? If they were all that effective, you would see them on every bow, kind of like nearly every rifle and shotgun and crossbow have.

I had one for tournament shooting years ago and it was pretty good in well lit shooting ranges and indoor ranges. Nothing like a rifle scope by any stretch of the imagination, but it did help somewhat. Needless to say it never went on my hunting bow. They are not the multi-optic, gas-filled, light gathering scopes that are commonly used on rifles, shotguns and crossbows or even close. Another thing if you can imagine it, just think of the difficulty of trying to keep a bow steady enough to use 8X magnification. It's not like you can drop down your bi-pod or get down into a prone position, or bench rest your bow on a downed log or something .... lol.

come on Doc, you know if there was any practical way to mount a scope on a vertical compound bow it would have been done by now, the reason vert bow hunters don't shoot with scopes has nothing to do with their wanting to remain pure.

hey Doc can you tell the that story again about when you get too old to shoot your vertical bow how you will just ride off into the sunset instead of ever using a crossbow, thats one of our favorites, tell it PLEASE, PLEASE???!!!!

[Doc]

I was was refering to the clarifying peep site which is a magnifier - not the site itself which someone who has spent years shooting should easily understand. Ido know several who use both them and scopes as sites - most 2 to 4 power.

Sites have been used on recurves for a long time, but the fact is they are much easier to use and far more effective to use on a compound then a recurve. Why? For one simple reason - letoff. One only has to look the fact 99% of compounds have them and 99% of recurves don't.

Once again - there is a reason why fewer then 5% of those shooting arrows for hunting do it with a recurve/lb - it is far harder to become and maintain shooting proficiency. What is your reason Doc for hanging up the recurve? It's not because a compound is more challanging.

If bowseason's where made recurve/compound only, then in a few years i would not be surprized if we lost far more then 1/2 our bowhunters. It wouldn't be because shooting recurves and compounds are equally difficult.

What part of "The compound is easier than traditional only because of the let-off" wasn't clear enough in my previous post? I stated the obvious before pointing out all the reasons why a compound really is nearly identical to any other form of bow. That of course was the basis for including compounds into bowseasons originally. Of course nobody has even acknowledged all those points of similarity that I mentioned because none of those points of operation of any of the bows are anything like the operation of a crossbow. Of course everyone knows that but in a pro-crossbow position these features are rather inconvenient. That is the real criteria for the inclusion of compounds where the crossbow fails to measure up. I'm sure I am simply pointing out the obvious and none of this isn't something that crossbow advocates don't already know, but are afraid to admit.

By the way, where are you coming up with all these percentages? 99% of all recurves don't have sights? That one sure sounds bogus and most likely the other percentages are concocted as well. Certainly anyone who does not have a sight on their recurve, it is simply because of a conscious decision to want to shoot barebow. I have shot with sights on recurves and without, and for those that don't already know, I can assure you that they are a huge assist in shooting accuracy, and always have been.

Doc

[Doc]

come on Doc, you know if there was any practical way to mount a scope on a vertical compound bow it would have been done by now, the reason vert bow hunters don't shoot with scopes has nothing to do with their wanting to remain pure.

Please quote anything where I have ever said any different. You really don't pay attention do you? The fact is that there is no practical way to mount and use a conventional scope onto a vertical bow, a limitation that crossbows don't have. And that is the reason those kinds of scopes are not found on vertical bows. By the way, I do remember seeing someone marketing a pistol style scope on a bow years ago. The idea never lasted a year...... for obvious reasons. No it didn't have anything to do with "purity".....lol.

hey Doc can you tell the that story again about when you get too old to shoot your vertical bow how you will just ride off into the sunset instead of ever using a crossbow, thats one of our favorites, tell it PLEASE, PLEASE???!!!!

Again, your reading comprehension needs a bit of work. I never said anything about riding off into the sunset. In fact, if your willing to listen this time, I will pick up an appropriate weapon that properly compensates for whatever physical problem that I've got. I'll even use the proper season for it too. That weapon is far more easy for me to load and shoot and should compensate for any back, arm and shoulder problems far better than any crossbow will ever be able to do. That would be a gun. However, I will say that I am a bit of a realist and do understand that a day will come when I no longer can even shoot a gun or even walk up a hill. It happens to us all, unless you have figured out a way of preventing that ..... ha-ha. Maybe you can figure out a way to convince us that crossbows can keep that from happening too. 

Doc

[bubba]

Doc must be a democrat. never answer a question just talk around it and attack.  I love it

[Doc]

Doc must be a democrat. never answer a question just talk around it and attack.  I love it

Care to explain that comment?

[bubba]

it is self explanatory to anyone who reads your posts.  I am simply pointing out the obvious

[SteveB]

By the way, where are you coming up with all these percentages? 99% of all recurves don't have sights?

I have attended the Denton Hills Traditional shoot at least 7 times where there are 4000 plus shooters and probably twice that many bows to view. Have not seen 2 handfuls of bows with sites.

So why do you not still hunt with your recurve?

[Doc]

it is self explanatory to anyone who reads your posts.  I am simply pointing out the obvious

Actually, you aren't pointing out anything other than how rude you are. I have noticed that this is what you reduce yourself to everytime you get frustrated about not being able to conduct a discussion.

Well, if that's what gets you through the day, do what you've got to do and be what you have to be. : 

Doc

[Doc]

I have attended the Denton Hills Traditional shoot at least 7 times where there are 4000 plus shooters and probably twice that many bows to view. Have not seen 2 handfuls of bows with sites.

So why do you not still hunt with your recurve?

Simply because I do like the let-off. I hope there isn't anything wrong with that. I think that's why a lot of us moved from recurves to compounds. However, I do still mess around with my Damon Howatt and a few of my other recurves anytime I feel the urge. And I apply exactly the same shooting form and mechanics as when I am shooting my compound. The sight that I have mounted on that is very similar to the one on my compound and is used exactly the same way too.

As far as hunting is concerned, over the many decades, I have concentrated my equipment and the bulk of my shooting activities to my compounds, and that is what my hunting gear is associated with. Seems reasonable. So what's your point?

Doc