Governor requesting Compromise on Crossbow Bill

[mike103]

Full disclosure:

I am a hard core gun hunter.

I don't bowhunt.

I don't ML hunt.

I hunt on my feet. Track, still hunt, and drive with friends. I sit very little.

I don't view standing 30 feet up in a tree using modern climbers, clad in camo, armed with a modern compound bow a primitive hunt on any level.

And I feel the same way about modern in line ML'ers.

So let's all get off our high horses and band together as sportsman and COMPROMISE!

The DEC wants three days for a youth hunt. That's it!

And in return they are starting the bow season on October 1st.

I think that is a reasonable compromise.

[jjb4900]

Maybe the "army of unsupervised kids" statement was a bit much, but it seems that the two things that keep resurfacing is that it's a safety concern and that people are using the youth season to avoid having their own hunts compromised. Don't know if you have to hunt public land or not, but the some adults out there make me feel unsafe. I hunted the youth turkey season with my son, and it was one of the most memorable hunts I've had in a long time and hope to do the same with him on a youth deer hunt.

[sampotter]

I read a good article recently about several different stages of a hunter's career. This may be the same one or one very similar. Basically it gives a different label to different steps in a hunter's career. The last stage listed is the Sportsman stage where its more about giving than taking. Note the author pointed out that not all hunters make it through all the stages.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/hunter-stages.php

Honestly I would love to mentor a teenager during a youth season. I would agree with some earlier posts in that I would not accompany someone else's kid so they can hunt themselves.

[skully]

Lowering the hunting age is better for recruitment than a special youth hunt. i am sorry but think it is ridiculous that people think this might actually be good for recruitment. Just about 100 percent of these kids are gonna hunt anyway.

[jjb4900]

And I personally think that recurves/longbows and compounds offer pretty much the same disadvantages to the hunter pretty much only limited by your own ability. On the other hand, I think the crossbow is a precocked device that removes the need to stand, draw at the right time, and wait at full draw for the right shot.....you pretty much just have to rest it, look through the scope and wait for the right shot, and that's what makes the biggest difference to me. I bet most bow hunters would say that most of their mishaps occurred as they were setting up for the shot as opposed to there ability to connect when they released the arrow.

[Doc]

Full disclosure:

I am a hard core gun hunter.

I don't bowhunt.

I don't ML hunt.

I hunt on my feet. Track, still hunt, and drive with friends. I sit very little.

I don't view standing 30 feet up in a tree using modern climbers, clad in camo, armed with a modern compound bow a primitive hunt on any level.

And I feel the same way about modern in line ML'ers.

So let's all get off our high horses and band together as sportsman and COMPROMISE!

The DEC wants three days for a youth hunt. That's it!

And in return they are starting the bow season on October 1st.

I think that is a reasonable compromise.

Ha-ha .... I love it when gun hunters want to compromise bow seasons. Let's try this: quite often you read opinions on here that gun season is way too long. How about we wack the gun season in half in the spirit of "compromise" .... lol.

[SteveB]

2 seasons - Bow for all bows. Gun for all gun.

Simple isn't it.

[jjb4900]

As far as gun season goes, I think the majority of hunters have come and gone by the end of the first week.....so I think it could be shortened, the question is, at which end?

[Doc]

2 seasons - Bow for all bows. Gun for all gun.

Simple isn't it.

Lol ... Nothing is ever simple when it comes to hunters.

[mike103]

Ha-ha .... I love it when gun hunters want to compromise bow seasons. Let's try this: quite often you read opinions on here that gun season is way too long. How about we wack the gun season in half in the spirit of "compromise" .... lol.

Well I wanted to play nice but I guess it never works.

The more this topic is discussed the more you bowhunters expose yourselves.

Keep digging.

Just come out and admit it.

All you want is the woods to yourselves.

[SteveB]

All you want is the woods to yourselves

No actually. Most - SZ - would be happy without the placement of more early special gun seasons (other then an early youth weekend) in the early bow season. Bow (SZ) lost the best weekend of the rut a few years back. I can't remember any changes (compromise) to the regular season that has limited gun only hunters. And I personally will never ask for one - just no more intrusions on the early bow.

[beachpeaz]

To many damn quotes to quote to copy them all. I will attempt to Remember all of them.

First, bow and muzzleloader are considered a primitive weapons hunt. I don't argue technology has evened the playing field, but that is what they are. You can take that up with the DEC not me. You can't argue that bows and muzzleloader were around before modern guns! You also can't argue that compared to a new, 300 ultra mag with a sniper scope that shoots 2" groups at 1,000 yards, that bow and muzzleloader are suppose to be "primitive"

Second, I am a die hard hunter all around. I hunt bow, gun and muzzleloader and enjoy the outdoors period. It's not about shooting anything, but about enjoying the whole experience. I am not trying to "compromise one season for another"

Third, I am all for a youth season. I have 2 young boys who I am super excited to get into the outdoors, having a time set aside for just them with less pressure so they can enjoy the experience is important (and safer compared to the billion people and bullets flying around opening weekend.

Lastly, having any gun season during bow is BS. Youth or otherwise. Since they moved bow season up 2 weeks, why don't they put a youth season at the end of bow for the final 2 weeks before opening gun? That would be a nice compromise.

Go ahead, piss over my arguments......lmao, that's what makes this country great.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have never heard anyone else bring it up so I will: If we designate seperate seasons for muzzleloaders and shotguns/rifles, then why would we have crossbows and vertical bows share the same season? Obviously there are a lot less differences between MLs and shotguns than there are between CBs and VBs. I support allowing CBs in bow season only for those with a permanent, documented disability that does not allow them to shoot a vertical bow.

Crossbows require a lot less practice to be proficient with. I enjoy bow season because I can see deer nearly every time I go out and they are doing normal deer things. Gun season is a crapshoot around here- most of the deer I see are ones running from the neighbor's land. Normal deer activity totally shuts down. If crossbows were allowed in bow season there would be a large influx of folks that had never bowhunted before because it was "too much work". I enjoy the solitude of bowhunting and the liklihood of seeing game.

I'm sure there are some that would call me selfish or elitist. Bowhunting is not an exclusive club. There's a reason why some trout streams are flyfishing only. If you want to get the first crack at the bucks then put in the time and pay your dues.

Crossbows and vertical bows have the same effective range, so they should be in the same season. That and the fact that they are both archery equipment. The difference between muzzle loaders and most shotguns/rifles is mainly that you get one shot with the muzzle loader, which is why they seperate them out.

Using that argument, why not seperate out longbows and recurves from compounds, then throw the crossbow in with the compounds? Id say theres a much bigger difference between a compound and a recurve or longbow than there is between a compound and a crossbow.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Lowering the hunting age is better for recruitment than a special youth hunt. i am sorry but think it is ridiculous that people think this might actually be good for recruitment. Just about 100 percent of these kids are gonna hunt anyway.

Still cant get proven facts through that skully of yours eh?

I do agree that lowering the age would help more though.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Beach, the point of putting the youth season so early is the nice weather. Whens the last time we had snow or cold on Columbus Day weekend? Plus taking more rut time away from bow hunters really isnt good.

[apoallo]

I understand the point about New young hunters with guns while archers are out but the thing that I have seen already on this thread in a few posts are that the bow hunters are not willing to buy any light blaze orange to be safe. I purchased a $5.00 blaze orange vest from the walmart for gun season..... is $5.00 really gonna break your wallet?or even $10.00 at the most........if you dont agree with this youth hunt during archery season then fine thats a separate issue, but dont be stubborn about it and jeopardise your safety. the only person that would be hurt if something were to happen god forbid would be you because you wouldnt buy a $5 orange vest.. or even an orange cap or heavy orange beanie for no more then $3..

[SteveB]

Crossbows and vertical bows have the same effective range, so they should be in the same season. That and the fact that they are both archery equipment. The difference between muzzle loaders and most shotguns/rifles is mainly that you get one shot with the muzzle loader, which is why they seperate them out.

Using that argument, why not seperate out longbows and recurves from compounds, then throw the crossbow in with the compounds? Id say theres a much bigger difference between a compound and a recurve or longbow than there is between a compound and a crossbow.

Sounds OK to me

Just kidding - I still think 2 seasons total - 1 gun and 1 bow.

[growalot]

I love the "You bow hunters....."...It's Classic lol...

I remember being just a gun hunter thinking dang those bow hunters get the brakes...hunting when the deer are calm and getting to see buck...THEN I GOT OF MY ASS AND GOT BOW CERTIFIED...problem solved...put in the work and reap the benefits

By the way The Oct 1 opener can't be the compromise...It's all ready set to happen...unless they really want to screw things up...it's in the booklets all ready...So you need to come up with a different one Mike........

[wdswtr]

Most of you know my stance on the youth hunt. In case it was missed Im all for it. The thing that I would have rather seen is a youth bow hunt during bow season and a youth gun hunt in gun season. It does seem odd to me how they stuck in the guns. The only thing that makes sence to me in not the better warmer weather but the best opportunity of them hunting deer in a more natural enviorment versus deer running for there lives from deer drives and gun blast. The whole idea is to create enthousiasim, we all know this day and age there are not many kids who will sit without the reward of seeing deer. I cannot get on the band wagon some are claiming dad just doesnt want them shooting there deer. I personally do not know anyone with that concept of mine mine mine when it comes to there kids. The one thing I have not seen mention that would bother me the most is some of these guys putting on deer drives to the kids. Deer drives alone have to be the biggest opportunity for something bad to happen. Stick first time hunters into that eqauation not good. Hence the reason I say youth bow hunt, in the bow season. Of course it takes more than one weekend for a mentor to spend with a kid getting him prepped and shooting well too. Now that Im saying all this I think I would much rather see them take the last day of bow and first day of gun for the youth hunt. There is just no quick fix, no matter how its looked at. Atleast it has been acknowledged and hopefully its not as Doc says it being a pat on the back and move on. Hopefully it gets looked at closely, tweeked and improved over the years.

[Doc]

It does seem odd to me how they stuck in the guns.

That does seem like an odd thing to do, purposely adding guns into a bow season. kind of like a slap in the face to bowhunters, for no other purpose that slapping them in the face. There is no need to have them both running concurrent. Furthermore their choice of running the two seasons concurrently automatically makes a huge number of potential mentors have to choose between the two events. I'm sure that this will have some potential mentors skipping the youth event. Was it necessary to force that choice on mentors? ..... absolutely not.

The only thing that makes sence to me in not the better warmer weather but the best opportunity of them hunting deer in a more natural enviorment versus deer running for there lives from deer drives and gun blast.

It really makes me wonder about the value of "fooling" kids about what hunting really is. If they are sensitive to cold weather, or need to experience gun hunting in conditions that don't replicate real gun hunting conditions, then what the heck is really being accomplished? Are we just trying to temporarily fool them and set them up for quitting later when they do have to hunt within a real gun season? Also, I have to say that if you want kids to see deer and get a shot, there is absolutely no better time of the year than opening day for that. The pressure of the orange army keeps them moving on that day. There is also another intangible at work during regular season as the kids are also exposed to the comraderie of hunting with cousins, aunts, uncles, grand parents as well as their parents and friends. Also, in some cases there is the added benefit of camp-life. All of these things are missing during some trumped up special season that is held apart from the rest of the world.

I cannot get on the band wagon some are claiming dad just doesnt want them shooting there deer. I personally do not know anyone with that concept of mine mine mine when it comes to there kids.

It is hard to know what is in the mind of a parent or other mentor who is not carrying on the tradition of introducing children to hunting as a natural part of life. You sure can't detect that attitude of selfishness by looking at them or even talking with them. But it has to be admitted that the job is not getting done or we wouldn't even be talking about special seasons. We can only guess at the motivation and I would maintain that selfishness has to be looked at as one of the possible motives for people dropping the ball.

And once again, I am going to ask that question that never seems to get answered here: If we can't get parents and other mentors to introduce kids to hunting within the season, where does everyone expect these mentors to be coming from? Let me repeat that .... where does everyone expect these mentors to be coming from? It's not happening now in season. Why does anyone think it will be happening during some special season. And do we make that situation better by making potential mentors choose between bow season and a special youth season? I think not.

But it does make us all feel good, doesn't it ..... lol.

[Terry]

As an avid bow hunter and a father, I would prefer the youth season stay right where its at. I believe it is early enough to not effect the rut, and still provide action for the kids. I also think giving us two more weeks to bow hunt is a fair trade. Sorry, but I believe the DEC did a good job with this one.

[Doc]

The difference between muzzle loaders and most shotguns/rifles is mainly that you get one shot with the muzzle loader, which is why they seperate them out.

Some of us see that as an advantage, not a disadvantage. Also, I know quite a few guys these days who are opting for the muzzle loader over the shotgun because of range and accuracy.

[Doc]

Well I wanted to play nice but I guess it never works.

The more this topic is discussed the more you bowhunters expose yourselves.

Keep digging.

Just come out and admit it.

All you want is the woods to yourselves.

Good one Mikey. Keep that old "gun hunters hate bowhunters" thing going. There is a lot more of that going on than even you realize, and I'm glad you are posting to advertise that mindset. People should understand that there are some of you guys that love to take PETA's work and continue it where they leave off when it comes to bowhunters. Your doing a fine job.

[bubba]

geesh doc relax. It is all good. Your key board must be smoking.

[Doc]

geesh doc relax. It is all good. Your key board must be smoking.

Ha-ha .... I guess Mikey must have got to me. I hear that kind of crap all too often. It does get tiresome.