AR question

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It shouldn't because its the truth.

You can't compare what was with what is now AR. If I a hunter saw horn above the ears they could lay it down. now they can't. Now they may be spendin more time counting points than looking for the orange dot in the background.

[WNYBuckHunter]

How about this if you think the antlers are too small and you don't have a DMP tag dont shoot. It not brain surgery people. I have been hunting for over 20 years and have never made that mistake. If you do make a mistake like that then you probably have no business being in the woods with a gun. You are the irresposible hunters that end up shooting other people. And thats all i have to say about that.

So now, anyone that mistakes a 6 point deer for an 8 point is irresponsible and the kind of person that shoots other hunters? Thats an extremely large stretch at best.

Just for fun, have there been any safety studies done showing that ARs have helped improve safety?

[BornToHunt]

So now, anyone that mistakes a 6 point deer for an 8 point is irresponsible and the kind of person that shoots other hunters? Thats an extremely large stretch at best.

Just for fun, have there been any safety studies done showing that ARs have helped improve safety?

WNY that wasnt what i was trying to say. My point was that if you cant tell how many points a deer has or how tall the horns are they you probably are not paying close enough attention to what you shooting or the deer to too far to make a clean shot on anyway and if thats the case then you probably wont see the house in the distance thats in your direct line of fire. (Didnt that happen last year. baby shot in crib because hunter didnt see the house in background only deer running across a field.) Those hunters are shoot and see hunters. Total disreguard for the animal or whats around them.

[BornToHunt]

The point i am trying to make has nothing to do with AR only the caliber of some of the hunters out there.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Seems like you are tying the ability to count points to how safe a hunter is.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[burmjohn]

Seems like you are tying the ability to count points to how safe a hunter is.

I think its more of identifying your target and surroundings then counting points. I can't recall ever not knowing what I'm shooting at in the 15+ years I've been hunting before pulling the trigger / releasing the arrow.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Maybe I am unsafe and a slob hunter but I bet there hasn't been 3 bucks where I knew how many points they actually had.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My point was that if you cant tell how many points a deer has or how tall the horns are they you probably are not paying close enough attention to what you shooting or the deer to too far to make a clean shot on anyway and if thats the case then you probably wont see the house in the distance thats in your direct line of fire.

His opinion sounds pretty clear in his statement

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ive shot zero bucks where I knew exactly how many points they had. I was concentrating too hard on making a good shot to do that. I can generally tell from a glance at the rack if I want to shoot it or not, but Im not counting points. I do try and count the points on the ones I pass as they walk by though.

[jjb4900]

Same here, once I a get a glimpse of the rack, I turn my focus to the shot..........I think just as many legal bucks will walk as sub standard, because of lost shot opportunities as guy's have to try and count points while the opportunity to shoot walks away.

[covert]

Maybe I am unsafe and a slob hunter but I bet there hasn't been 3 bucks where I knew how many points they actually had.

But to be fair, there probably wasn't any need to in the area you were hunting, correct? Just knowing they were a buck was probably enough.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The point i am trying to make has nothing to do with AR only the caliber of some of the hunters out there.

But to be fair, there probably wasn't any need to in the area you were hunting, correct? Just knowing they were a buck was probably enough.

Covert, You are 100% correct becasue once it had 3" it was good to go and if I had a doe tag in my pocket it could be 2-1/2 for all it mattered. But even from his own statement this is not an AR thing to him. If you can't make a detailed of an identificatiion as he feels , you are unsafe as a hunter. I am not putting words in his mouth, just believeing he means what he says.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Everyone keeps talking about counting points and exact numbers etc... You don't need all of that you just have to be aware that it has 3 points on one side. lets count 1, 2, 3. Both of my deer last year I looked once quickly saw 3 tips on one side sticking up then focused on my shot. I didn't know if either of the deer I shot had brow tines or even an antler on the other side of the head but I knew they were both legal if there were 3 pt antler restrictions. Heck didn't even have to count. I could tell by looking with out sitting there going 1............2............3....... ummmmm is there a 4........... Its not much harder than determining if a deer has has horns at all or perhaps a split second longer if its a small legal deer but a larger legal deer will take an instant. Will it make hunting safer or you still going to have individuals shooting at everything even noise. dunno. I doubt it, but it definately won't hurt.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

how far away were they?

[Guns&ReligionCop]

how far away were they?

My first was only about 8 yards away when I shot him (pretty easy to tell), My second was about 100 yds away and when I saw him looking back over my shoulder in a funny angle with my naked eye. That was the last time I saw his antlers until he was dead. I saw clear as day the 3 points on his left side. (I was blessed with a decent size deer or I might have had to take a second look from my postion)

[BornToHunt]

Everyone is reading into my statements too much. The only point i was trying to make was that if you cant determine what you are shooting at then you shouldnt have a gun in your hands period.

[nyantler]

Covert, You are 100% correct becasue once it had 3" it was good to go and if I had a doe tag in my pocket it could be 2-1/2 for all it mattered. But even from his own statement this is not an AR thing to him. If you can't make a detailed of an identificatiion as he feels , you are unsafe as a hunter. I am not putting words in his mouth, just believeing he means what he says.

What is detailed about counting 5 points? I just don't understand the complexity. The current AR is a 3 on a side rule to help protect the majority of yearling bucks... that is the objective... hunters should be more concerned about the objective than how bad they are at counting to 5... a hunter that puts having to fill a tag before responsiblity to the law IS an unsafe hunter in my eyes.

How many times do you hear a hunter say after the kill " I could have sworn he was a 6 pointer, but he had no brow tines when I got up to him"? With no AR in place that is a mistaken identity.. because there was no reason for him have to count more than a 3" horn to shoot... with AR's in place that is an irresponsible hunter that just broke the law... its that simple. NO EXCUSES.

Edited September 24, 2012 by nyantler

[Culvercreek hunt club]

What is detailed about counting 5 points? I just don't understand the complexity. The current AR is a 3 on a side rule to help protect the majority of yearling bucks... that is the objective... hunters should be more concerned about the objective than how bad they are at counting to 5... a hunter that puts having to fill a tag before responsiblity to the law IS an unsafe hunter in my eyes.

How many times do you hear a hunter say after the kill " I could have sworn he was a 6 pointer, but he had no brow tines when I got up to him"? With no AR in place that is a mistaken identity.. because there was no reason for him have to count more than a 3" horn to shoot... with AR's in place that is an irresponsible hunter that just broke the law... its that simple. NO EXCUSES.

.

I totally understand what you are saying. I also under stand the need to make sure of the points. you guys are just totally besides yourselves wonder why on earth anyone would oppose the AR's.. THese are some of the issues why peopl won't sign on. We have a guy on this thread basically saying if you can't tell how many points is on a deer you are equal to the guy shooting a baby in a crib? You are an unsafe hunter if you cna't tell how many points it had? I think it is all bull$hit to be honest and if you are taking these approaches to try to win support ...good luck with that. These threads and the views and attitudes of many of the AR supporters is just why it will have to be shoved down NY huinters throats on a statewide basis. and kind of reinforces in my head why I am pissing up a rope to focus on education in QDMA.

[BornToHunt]

Culver thats not what i am saying. I am not shoving AR down anyones throat. I can care less if you shoot a doe spike or 10 pointer. My point was that if you don't know what you are shooting at then you have no business being in the woods with a gun. That shoot first ask questions later attitude is what causes all these accidents to happen. You guys should spend less time arguing the politics behind AR and more time focusing on hunter safety.

[Doewhacker]

Do you happen to have stats to back up that safety statement? Ny is near the top in hunter safety.

[BornToHunt]

Doe what areyou talking about. Stats to back up what statement. My statement is pretty clear. Know what you are shooting at or you have no business hunting. I cant dumb it down any more than that.

[Doewhacker]

That shoot first ask questions later attitude is what causes all these accidents to happen. You guys should spend less time arguing the politics behind AR and more time focusing on hunter safety.

That statement where you said "all these accidents", ar does not change things to make it safer. And I would love some examples of all those accidents that have occurred.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Do you happen to have stats to back up that safety statement? Ny is near the top in hunter safety.

Thats because they are all in PA shooting people hahahah ;-)

[BornToHunt]

Doe my statement wasn’t referring to any specific accident or inferring that there were exorbitant amounts of accident here in NY. It was just a broad statement referring to accidents in general. If hunters were more aware of what they were shooting at jhere would be less accidents.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Born. My standards are above anything NY has or is likely to start. I cant support the change being forced. It should be sold. And getring on a high horse and pushing imaginary saftey benefits and calling those that dont buy in unaafe wont sell it