Syracuse.com - Guest column: Bowhunter says DEC's special youth firearms weekend "makes me sick"

[Doc]

I think the safety aspect probably is blown a bit out of proportion, but I do think there are some questions regarding that.

First of all, is an honest question that I really don't know the answer to. Exactly how close are the mentor and youth hunter required by law to be? Within reach? Within sight? Within reach of their voice? Within so many yards? How exactly do they define "being with" when it comes to mentors and their hunter. That does relate to just how much control the mentor has over shot selection and safety issues involving that.

I know that if I am out there on those days of the youth hunt, I will be very well covered in blaze orange. The question is, am I going to be the tiny minority of bowhunters who actually do this? That also relates to the safety issue.

Another question that I really don't have any answer to is how effective is blaze orange when all the leaves are on the trees. I was walking around the hill the other day, and I have to admit that I couldn't really see any great distances through the woods. I have only seen the effectiveness of BO in the woods after all the trees and bushes have lost all their leaves. The damned stuff really works amazingly well. What I really don't know is how well it works when distant vision is blocked out with leaves. I've never had occasion to actually check that out. You guys up north maybe have some insight into that if you have actually seen a lot of guys wearing BO in the woods before leaf-fall. I can't say that I have any idea.

[landtracdeerhunter]

What worries me the most, is those youth without a mentor. Their will be some.

[Doc]

What worries me the most, is those youth without a mentor. Their will be some.

How about the mentors that really could use a mentor themselves .... lol. Sorry ... just kidding.

[nybuckboy]

I personally think the youth hunt should have been the week before bow season opened, like the 29th and 30th and bow to open the following weekend on Oct 6th. That way everyone is happy, well most everyone.

In addition to this bow hunters could wear orange the week before and open shooting lanes, set or reset stands, scout, etc. I for one do not agree with guns and bows in the woods together. It just increases the chances for injury or death.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

What worries me the most, is those youth without a mentor. Their will be some.

I don't think thee will be many , if any, 14 and 15 year old kids out with rifles and shotguns hunting deer without the mentors.Even if there are a few, we shouldn't set up our regulations for the what if's of a few.

[BizCT]

Everybody is missing the bigger point. Why does this Marino guy still have a goatee? Nobody still rocks a goatee, its 2012!

[Doewhacker]

I think the safety aspect probably is blown a bit out of proportion, but I do think there are some questions regarding that.

First of all, is an honest question that I really don't know the answer to. Exactly how close are the mentor and youth hunter required by law to be? Within reach? Within sight? Within reach of their voice? Within so many yards? How exactly do they define "being with" when it comes to mentors and their hunter. That does relate to just how much control the mentor has over shot selection and safety issues involving that.

.

I am almost positive the youth regulations are laid out to answer your specific question, I also think I had heard no treestands for youths? I'll look into it for Doc and paste what I find.

[Doewhacker]

Here is a link,

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html

[Doewhacker]

• Adult mentor must maintain physical control over the Junior Hunter at all times while hunting. This means the mentor and Junior Hunter must be close enough to talk without the aid of a radio and must be able to see each other.
  
• Both the Junior Hunter and mentor must remain on the ground while hunting; you may not use a tree stand or hunt from an elevated platform.
  
• Both the Junior Hunter and mentor must wear hunter orange visible from all directions: shirt, jacket or vest with at least 250 square inches of solid or patterned orange (the pattern must be at least 50% orange) OR a hat with at least 50% orange.
  

[Doewhacker]

still more...

Q: The youth deer hunt occurs during bowhunting season. Are adults allowed to continue bowhunting over Columbus Day weekend?

A: Yes, licensed adult bowhunters may hunt deer or bear with a bow over Columbus Day weekend. However, adults may not bowhunt for deer or bear while mentoring a Junior Hunter who is participating in the youth deer hunt. We recommend that adult bowhunters put their bow away for the weekend and spend time afield mentoring a Junior Hunter during the youth deer hunt

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Those 14-15 year old Junior Hunters can still hunt regular season like they could from the last change...right? couldn't find that.

[burmjohn]

Those 14-15 year old Junior Hunters can still hunt regular season like they could from the last change...right? couldn't find that.

Of course.

[WNYBuckHunter]

What worries me the most, is those youth without a mentor. Their will be some.

Then they will be hunting illegally. You cant base everything on the bad apples. If you did, there would be no hunting at all.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I find it hilarious that most of the guys complaining about the youth hunt are basing everything upon what they have heard, and apparently havent done their due dilligence and read the actual regulations.

[growalot]

Culver...you know I'm messing with ya...but the guys have responded with two pages...I have to post this....lol

Hunting in Texas this has always been an issue, getting your deer to the hanging pole as fast as you can.. the average deer temp is about 104 degrees, so you have to look at the outside temp and know just how fast you have to work.. I have seen opening days here that were 25 and some that were 80 degrees. Meast starts to spoil above about 40-45 degrees and so I have always taken the approach that once I get that deer on the ground its a race to get that deer to the pole and start that temp. drop and keep it going down until I get it all processed. and immediately get it on ice and keep the temp going down and down until its frozen.. at that time you can relax a bit..

Taking a deer is alot of work and it begins as soon as you shoot it.. It is a race from that point to keep that temp going down, unless you have some real cold weather and it will freeze and be fine.. I never gut a deer in the field , or really at all. I hang my deer feet up and skin it all first and then open it up and let all the entire cavity drop into a catch pale below and I never take the risk of puncturing the organs or intestines.. I makes for a real clean process... I pack my deer on ice after that for 3 days and it turns out fine..

[Doewhacker]

The temperature danger zone is 40-140, meat in that range can cause serious risk of spoilage after 4 hours that is although aged meat is sometimes done at a slightly warmer temperature, it is done in a controlled environment and tested, unlike a deer hanging in a garage or yard. Its also important to note that the meat doesn't immediately turn to poison the second you kill a deer unless it was sick ahead of time. I am sure you would find 4+ hours a reasonable amount of time to clean and cool a fresh kill.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Doewhacker

[WNYBuckHunter]

Now we are comparing 104 degrees in Texas to 60ish degrees here?

Ive shot deer in 60 degree weather a bunch of times. Its not that much of a "race" to keep it from spoiling. Sure, you cant sit there and gloat over it all day before you skin it, but its not a feverish paced type of a thing.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I will say that when we hunt up north inthe early season , when one of us shoot a deer the hunting for us is done and we head home to process the deer. late SZ hunting we have gutted and left in the field all day and brought all of them out at the end. I have never had a problem taking care of a deer in warm temps so far but the bugs that are around during it do bother me. I freak a bit with flys on food.

[growalot]

eeeww flys ..with ya on that...love the game bags

[moog5050]

ditto

Edited September 20, 2012 by moog5050

[Doc]

• Adult mentor must maintain physical control over the Junior Hunter at all times while hunting. This means the mentor and Junior Hunter must be close enough to talk without the aid of a radio and must be able to see each other.
  
• Both the Junior Hunter and mentor must remain on the ground while hunting; you may not use a tree stand or hunt from an elevated platform.
  
• Both the Junior Hunter and mentor must wear hunter orange visible from all directions: shirt, jacket or vest with at least 250 square inches of solid or patterned orange (the pattern must be at least 50% orange) OR a hat with at least 50% orange.
  

So it's a "within sight" requirement with the ability to talk to each other. Actually, I can satisfy the talking requirement from 50 yards away if I'm not concerned with doing that in a quiet fashion. Well, that really isn't exactly the picture of the two sitting in the same blind that I had, or that I was hoping for. I think I would have made it a 20' rule if I was serious about "physical control". Oh well, whatever....

Just as an aside, It seems funny that they have mandated blaze orange for this special season, but refuse to mandate it for the regular season. In fact one would think that whatever reasoning led them to require blaze orange for the youth and mentor would have made them at least consider requiring bow hunters to wear BO. which gets to the 2nd question that I had. As far as the 3rd question regarding the potentially diminished effectiveness of BO when the leaves are still on, I guess that's still a matter of conjecture.

So it does appear that there might be a safety concern after all. But then there is the deal about it only being attended by an estimated 8000 across the state which kind of makes it basically a non-event..... unless you happen to be in the middle of a group of them ... lol. Then it could get a bit exciting.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I thought the BO was mandated for the junio hunters in teh regular season. I seem to recal that from last year.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So it's a "within sight" requirement with the ability to talk to each other. Actually, I can satisfy the talking requirement from 50 yards away if I'm not concerned with doing that in a quiet fashion. Well, that really isn't exactly the picture of the two sitting in the same blind that I had, or that I was hoping for. I think I would have made it a 20' rule if I was serious about "physical control". Oh well, whatever....

Just as an aside, It seems funny that they have mandated blaze orange for this special season, but refuse to mandate it for the regular season. In fact one would think that whatever reasoning led them to require blaze orange for the youth and mentor would have made them at least consider requiring bow hunters to wear BO. which gets to the 2nd question that I had. As far as the 3rd question regarding the potentially diminished effectiveness of BO when the leaves are still on, I guess that's still a matter of conjecture.

So it does appear that there might be a safety concern after all. But then there is the deal about it only being attended by an estimated 8000 across the state which kind of makes it basically a non-event..... unless you happen to be in the middle of a group of them ... lol. Then it could get a bit exciting.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

No, it means the mentor must be close enough to physically control the youth hunter.

• Adult mentor must maintain physical control over the Junior Hunter at all times while hunting. This means the mentor and Junior Hunter must be close enough to talk without the aid of a radio and must be able to see each other.
  

The rest of it is just saying they cant be on opposite sides of a structure or something like that.

[Doc]

I have lost a deer to excessive heat. Not every deer is recovered within a few hours. Mine was a late afternoon hit and unfortunately it had to lay over night and had begun to bloat when I found it. The stink when I tried to gut it was overwhelming. The temperature had flashed up to 70 and thedeer laid in the middle of a foeld with the sun beating on it. That's a temp that happened even during the old season (Oct 15th -). On the other hand, we found a dead deer early during gun season that had already entered rigor mortis but was still edible. It's all a function of time and temperature. In general, earlier season ... more risk.

[Doc]

No, it means the mentor must be close enough to physically control the youth hunter.

• Adult mentor must maintain physical control over the Junior Hunter at all times while hunting. This means the mentor and Junior Hunter must be close enough to talk without the aid of a radio and must be able to see each other.
  

The rest of it is just saying they cant be on opposite sides of a structure or something like that.

Well if they meant that the mentor has to be able to instantly grab and restrain the youth, why did they go through all the suplementary jargon. Obviously if the intent was to keep a situation where you can physically restrain someone, they pretty much have to be "in sight", and close enough to talk, and radio wouldn't even be a question. I interpret their idea of physical control is as they described it .... I can see them and I can talk to them. Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to specify a distance? I am positive that there will be many who read it the way I read it .... and why not? They have left the door open for that interpretation. Plus, I am still not sure that interpretation isn't exactly what they meant.