Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?

[troutman]

Hunting is the most personal sport there is.  Bottom line when you pull that trigger or release that arrow is that you are the only one who must be happy with your decision and be willing to live with the consequences.  It has different meaning for different people.  What YOU think doesn't matter.

We have gotton a ways away from the origins of this pastime,sport, or whatever you want to call it.  Did our ancestors and forefathers care what kind of 'headgear' was on the top of the deer they shot?  I think not.  So the pioneers and early native american cultures were not 'Stewards of the land?'  They certainly were.  They respected the whitetail, the bounty it provided,  and were thankful and celebrated their harvests.  In that same fashion if I work hard scouting, tracking, etc. for that perfect shot opportunity and it is only a crotch horn, that I will be happy with, and whose flesh I will enjoy and share with my family and friends, why am I not a steward of the land?

Are you saying the guy who passes dozens of small bucks to put a 150 class horn on the wall but lets the meat go rancid in his freezer because he doesn't eat it is a 'Steward of the land'.....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

First off- please excuse my lousy spelling/typing

The hypocricy stems from a few aspects;

the majority of hunters (even on our survey here) state ARs are great idea- but then they blast button bucks

why should i listen to "your pro AR mentality"- but then denying the DEC "strongly supports voluntary ARs"

they "trophy is only a trophy in the takers eyes"..but then passing on does just to shot a small buck

scientific evidence says there is no need for ARs- but shooting little ones skews the population age/breeding structure

surely someone will go for the point by point rebuttle...but riddle me this; Why not wait for a mature buck?

I wan's really trying to get clarification on the hypocricy aspect. I wanted an understanding who YOU thought was not representing the sport well

[gjs4]

i think hypocrates ruin everything

i think anyone letting any meat from a killed animal is a POS

Also the natives did not have licensing. In the same vane or our great unmanaged game approach wiped out a few things and nearly wiped out alot more. But TR was a trophy hunter so why like him?

Why have slot limits on fish? If i buy i license why cant i keep what i fairly catch, right?

we are not going to solve anything here...just sick the opposing attitude and decided to throw counterpoints in..thats all. Go hunt Ohio and then come back here....it will make you feel like your trying to buy a months worth of groceries from a wilson farms rather than the wegmans you just left..... no ars there....and they have crossbows and a much longer season (though NYS gun hunters would be severly depressed by their 1 wk approach)....but it comes down to self control due to knowledge..surely there rae guys that shoot "little bucks"...but most dont due to knowing a little patience grants a more fufilling experience overall..here many hide behind its my right- so i am going to do what i want because others will if i dont... no one would shoot a 1.5 yo 5 pt if they had the same chance at shooting a 200+pound  150" 10....just want the self sustaining BS to fall apart...most guys would be amazed to know the deer that live here, and in their spots......and we could have more if we just stopped shooting dinks. Let the first year hunters shoot whatever...let the remainder of us harvest what is best for the herd and sport

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Not to be contray but I also hear alot from the AR guys and some I don't agree with. Most points I don't agree with are showing up in your posts too so I will just sahre my views on some of your comments.

i think hypocrates ruin everything

i think anyone letting any meat from a killed animal is a POS...Me too

Also the natives did not have licensing. In the same vane or our great unmanaged game approach wiped out a few things and nearly wiped out alot more. But TR was a trophy hunter so why like him?

Why have slot limits on fish? If i buy i license why cant i keep what i fairly catch, right?NO...because there are regulations. and that would be illegal. SOme bodies of water are managed in that way and others are not due to their specific needs...Just as in the deer herd not all regulations are going to fit everywhere.

we are not going to solve anything here...just sick the opposing attitude and decided to throw counterpoints in..thats all. Go hunt Ohio and then come back here....it will make you feel like your trying to buy a months worth of groceries from a wilson farms rather than the wegmans you just left..... no ars there....and they have crossbows and a much longer season (though NYS gun hunters would be severly depressed by their 1 wk approach)...have you tried to lease any land there or get permission? Most of the "big Buck" states are crazy to try and hunt in. I know one guy who pays 5 times what I pay for a lease and her only gets a quarter of the acerage for ONE WEEK In Ill...yup...10,000 for a week. shoots some great bucks but this big horned pursuit will turn it into a kings sport again.but it comes down to self control due to knowledge..surely there rae guys that shoot "little bucks"...but most dont due to knowing a little patience grants a more fufilling experience overall.---and this is my biggest pet peeve----the AR and guys trying to tell anyone what their more fulfilling experience would be. I think it is arrogant and selfish---they want others to change to make THEIR experience better in their eyes. here many hide behind its my right- so i am going to do what i want because others will if i dont... no one would shoot a 1.5 yo 5 pt if they had the same chance at shooting a 200+pound  150" 10....just want the self sustaining BS to fall apart...most guys would be amazed to know the deer that live here, and in their spots......and we could have more if we just stopped shooting dinks. Let the first year hunters shoot whatever...let the remainder of us harvest what is best for the herd and sport

I personally pass on a lot of bucks depending on the area. SZ I let a lot walk...NZ maybe not...depending on the available time to hunt and how the year has been.

[steve863]

Let the first year hunters shoot whatever...let the remainder of us harvest what is best for the herd and sport

LOL!  So shooting only trophy sized bucks is what's good for the herd and sport?  Is there anything else that might be good??  The deer herd will survive very nicely whether the yearlings are shot or passed up, just like they always have.  In fact the only difference that it might make comes down to the hunter and NOT the deer.  You guys somehow have the need to shoot bigger antlered bucks, thus want to brainwash everyone else into thinking that only an older buck should be shot.  In the scheme of population control, and that's the only reason states allow us to hunt in the first place, there isn't one iota of difference in what the age of the deer is when it gets shot.  So you guys can keep talking a real good story, but the truth is NOT what's better for the herd, but what's better for some hunters!  It's nice how you guys make it all sound like everything you do is primarily for the benefit of the herd!!  Right, I guess I should believe in the toothfairy also.

 

[troutman]

Any true 'steward of the land' by definiton would not need game regulation.

Unfortunately there are pigs and greed in the world.  Market hunting about made the whitetail and other species extinct in the northeast, not unregulated native americans or subsistance settlers. 

one would shoot a 1.5 yo 5 pt if they had the same chance at shooting a 200+pound  150" 10

While you would like to see it 'easier' to harvest such an animal, what about those who like the challenge of taking something a bit more elusive?  If a 150 class 10 pt. was as common as a 1.5 yr old would it still be a trophy?  What you talk about defies biology anyway.  Give me an example of a species where the mature are equivilent in population to the young?

let the remainder of us harvest what is best for the herd and sport

Best for the herd/sport or best for you?  What is best for the sport is to get more people involved.  The herd is fine and is producing some great animals if you haven't noticed.

Don't compare Ohio or any other midwest state to NY.  Apples and Oranges .....population densities, percentage of crops vs. woods, overall deer populations, terrains, etc.  two totally different beasts that require different management strategies...

[steve863]

---and this is my biggest pet peeve----the AR and guys trying to tell anyone what their more fulfilling experience would be. I think it is arrogant and selfish---they want others to change to make THEIR experience better in their eyes.

Exactly!!!  Absolutely none of us are telling them that they can't wait for a 10 1/2 year old toothless and arthritic buck if they want while they of course are trying to tell us what we should be shooting or not and what they think would be more fulfilling for us.  What they are saying is BS in the first degree in my opinion!!

[adk3006]

surely someone will go for the point by point rebuttle...but riddle me this; Why not wait for a mature buck?

Pretty simple, I like venison and if I have a choice I'd rather eat a tender 1.5 year old than a tough 6.5 year old. 

[gjs4]

so legality is the only reason- therefore admitting if Ars would pass you'd play along

got access for free- to prime ground. half a day multiple properties secured in big buck counties

isnt it ironic how many of you say your opinion is better...lol?

Love how the buck avatars no longer matter too...or maybe the hunt club name...

Like 1.5 over a 6.5? ha..good luck finding old meat in this state due to the fawn killing nature of so many. if you like tender meat...save your license and equip funds and buy steak. And coming from a guy who eats alot of deer...its all in prep so dont worry yourself about age especially if you have the "brown n down mentality"

You definatley get the last laugh because you have the legal backing to do as you wish..but i am entitled ot my opinion of it comes down to laziness and selfishness in most scenarios to shoot a little buck. To each their own..til the laws change.

I know my first job during jr high was ok- but i continually aspired to do better for myself, and then my family.....just chocked that up to most things in life....complacency is for the unwilling

[adk3006]

Like 1.5 over a 6.5? ha..good luck finding old meat in this state due to the fawn killing nature of so many. if you like tender meat...save your license and equip funds and buy steak. And coming from a guy who eats alot of deer...its all in prep so dont worry yourself about age especially if you have the "brown n down mentality"

Nope, I'm not a "brown it's down" guy.  Where I hunt there simply aren't enough deer to be shooting does.  As for good luck to shooting old meat in this state......I've shot some nice bucks, just have to hunt hard to find them and by the way of the nice bucks I've taken, one was 8.5 and the other was 9.5 and YES the 1.5 are mcuh better to eat.  Also if the meat is all in the prep why would you tell me to save my license and equip fees and buy steak?

I have no problem with people like yourself that want to pass up young bucks in hopes of shooting a "mature" buck so I really don't feel there is a need for you to have a problem with people that are happy with a young buck!

[nyantler]

I don't really care what guys shoot.. but,  if I'm asked my opinion I say I see no reason to shoot a young buck. If you say you get the same thrill out of killing a spike  as you would a 150 class buck.. you are a liar!! Or, you have never killed a 150 class buck. I hear more guys argue that there are no big bucks in their area so they have to shoot small bucks... LOL I can't help but laugh at them. The worst part is they have no idea why I'm laughing

[Culvercreek hunt club]

See that is the sticking point ADK....thes guys want to IMPOSE there preference on others....no one is ever going to convince me this group is any better than the antis out there. the goals are different but the mind set that THEY know best and everyone MUST comply with their will is just crazy. The all suffer from a terminal case of cranial rectumitus. unbelievable.

And FYI I have taken some very nice and mature bucks...worked hard for them and the one in the avatar took me 2 seasons to get...northern zone too. I do pass on small bucks...but you know what ...my choice...just like it should be.

[covert]

so legality is the only reason- therefore admitting if Ars would pass you'd play along

I abide by lots of laws I don't agree with so yes, if ARs were the law where I hunted then I would follow them.  Just because I follow a law doesn't make it inherently a good law.

I don't believe anyone can look at a buck on the hoof and say for certain "That deer is 1.5 (or 3.5 or 6.75) years old." anyway.  How old is this one?

[adk3006]

Exactly Culver.  I pass on many young bucks each season too but that is my choice, as it should be.  I guess deer hunting to some people is all about the amount of bone on a bucks head.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Or in it...lol

[erussell]

so legality is the only reason- therefore admitting if Ars would pass you'd play along

I abide by lots of laws I don't agree with so yes, if ARs were the law where I hunted then I would follow them.  Just because I follow a law doesn't make it inherently a good law.

I don't believe anyone can look at a buck on the hoof and say for certain "That deer is 1.5 (or 3.5 or 6.75) years old." anyway.  How old is this one?

Wow that is a hell of a yrling you dont shoot him and in a few short yrs he would be a nice deer.   I like it when people shoot the little ones and have to leave the woods because there all out of tags. Then I can get down to the bussiness at hand of finding and killing a big buck. Someitmes I win more often than not they win. Thats why they made muzzloader season so I can fill out the rest of my tags on meat does and young fawns. Yummmy fawns! :-\

[nyantler]

Well if its not about the amount of bone on the deers head then why even bother with a buck just shoot does. Guys would go nuts if the DEC said no more bucks , does only. Because it "IS" about the bone on their head. I haven't met a hunter yet that has said he wouldn't love to kill a big buck!

Ok let's get back to the question at hand... Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?... answer: Nothing

[Culvercreek hunt club]

NY---That I agree with ...we all would like to get a nice buck....but most of us do not base the satisfaction of the hunt on the size of the bone as the AR come across as doing. And to those that feel there is more to hunting than horns....they take great offense to someone trying to force views down their throats and mess with their traditions.

[nyantler]

I agree the hunt is absolutely not about the kill... my best hunting season ever was a year I didn't kill a single deer. I had some exciting hunts tracking a ton of big bucks that year and got a look at a few but just couldn't put one in the freezer. I passed on 8 bucks in the adirondacks that year as well that were too small. For me its all about the challenge. Thats why I went to tradional archery 10 years ago, and my firearm of choice is my flintlock muzzleloader.  when I do carry a rifle it is a single shot 30-06 with iron sights. If I make it any more of a challenge I'll have to be throwing rocks at them.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I respect that Joe---The problem I have is there are many that don't choose to hunt like that. And I do not think it is fair for me, you or anyone else to dictate there hunting experience....inside the limits of the law, of course.

[gjs4]

The buck pic is a 1.5 yo born late initially or perhaps had nutritional deficiencies...

Did any of you cry when you saw today NYON's cover story..."Survey Supports Crosswbows and ARs"?

Again the Northern Zone accounts for 15% of the buck harvest...not to be rude...but thats a different issue and not comparable to the SZ much at all.

[covert]

How old is this one?

Wow that is a hell of a yrling you dont shoot him and in a few short yrs he would be a nice deer.   I like it when people shoot the little ones and have to leave the woods because there all out of tags. Then I can get down to the bussiness at hand of finding and killing a big buck. Someitmes I win more often than not they win. Thats why they made muzzloader season so I can fill out the rest of my tags on meat does and young fawns. Yummmy fawns! :-\

That buck was at least 4 years old at the time of this pic.  The first time I saw him was 2005 and he had a regular forkhorn on the left side and the weird side was the same except for that little sticker down by the ear.  Looking at him though he never looked burly like an older deer.

[Caveman]

NYAntler, let me pose you this question.  You've just established your preferences hunting.  What if one day someone came along and said flintlock muzzleloaders are too inaccurate and from now on only highly accurate bolt action rifles with top quality scopes were allowed.  Would you think that situation was unfair because someone else was telling you how to go about having your hunting experience? My guess is yes, you would.  That's the way many of us feel about the AR debate.  We don't feel that it would be fair for another person to dictate our hunting experience. 

[covert]

Did any of you cry when you saw today NYON's cover story..."Survey Supports Crosswbows and ARs"?

Again the Northern Zone accounts for 15% of the buck harvest...not to be rude...but thats a different issue and not comparable to the SZ much at all.

That's actually a SZ buck from 6P.  I know he had good forage available, but that doesn't mean he was eating it.  There could be other factors influencing this particular deer, I was just trying to give an example that showed that the age estimates of deer on the hoof are just that, estimates.  Not picking on anyone in particular but some people come across like they can look at a deer on the hoof and tell absolutely how old it is.

I personally (even though I prefer traditional archery and don't want one) support crossbows and I have expressed that in NYON and to my legislators so it didn't bother me at all. 

[gjs4]

Tough to judge from a frontal view but i would never think that deer is 4.5 and can give you a number of very typical biological consistencies as to why...

But it seems every opposer to ARs comes up with some point, thought relevant is miniscule in frequency. Big principal here...stop killing so many young bucks. If its 3 on one side...how many deer will be spared form the harvest? not may but the objection comes form slobs who like to see brown, see any horn and shoot....not safe or sportsmanlike