Arrow speed VS Arrow momentum

[BizCT]

I will still shoot a nice doe every opportunity i get, they taste much better and i enjoy eating what i harvest, which is why i would never hunt wolves, lions, bobcats ect... as i have no desire to try eating them

 

If does taste better than bucks, why shoot any bucks? You should just fawns, as they taste the best (deer-wise).

[Danny]

Well i also butcher my own deer as well, and it takes just as much work/time to butcher a small deer as it does a large deer. 

[josephmrtn]

It seems to me that there will come a day when our hunting success will eventually be completely dictated by the efforts of some set of mechanical and electrical designers. I often wrestle with that thought and I try to focus my hunting as simply me against the animal and the woodslore required to take that animal and the knowledge of the prey. Hopefully, my success does not rely on the skills of some inventor working away in his office. One look at my pile of equipment amassed over the years will tell you that I have not been real successful at cutting technology out of my hunting .... lol.

But anyway, I do believe that there is some point where technology has gone too far. We had these guys that tried to come up with computer-hunting.... hunting without the hunter/client ever stepping foot in the woods or laying a finger on a trigger. There was no doubt in my mind that that was going way too far, and yet I do see us heading for that sort of thing at some point in the distant future. No one seems willing to set limits as to what they will allow science and technology to do for them when it comes to hunting. Every generation seems to break down those limits farther and farther.

I think it is an amazing topic and that is why I commented the way I did. I find it interesting as to where everyone today sets their limits. Unfortunately not a lot of people want to even think about such things and seldom ever offer an opinion. Sometimes the silence on that subject is almost scary.

somehow i cant see that happening... deer are to smart...

Yes that is WAY to far!!!

 

 

Lol ..... It took me 7 years to get my first deer back in my recurve years. I've got to tell you that almost every bowhunter that I knew at the time (all 4 of them) didn't do even that good. However, that first deer was such a great trophy, that you cannot believe the overwhelming satisfaction and sense of accomplishment that was involved in that harvest. I also will say that I never really became frustrated or entertained any thoughts of giving up because all of us bowhunters were in the same boat. There weren't a whole lot of deer around back in those days, and sometimes "almost" getting a shot was the highlighted story at work on Monday morning. So yes, the equipment and the short seasons and the low deer populations made bow hunting a very skilled activity that required a whole lot of work, dedication and unfilled tags. But that was the challenge of bowhunting, and that's what made it different from gun hunting and we all accepted those challenges and understood that harvesting a deer (we called it killing back then .... lol) was likely to be a very rare event. But when you did connect, what a feeling and having success with a bow was recognized  as a demonstration of extreme hunting skills.

 

But I do understand  what you are saying. Today, success is expected. And if you do tell someone that you got a deer, the first thing out of their mouth is, "What did it score?". And if you come back with, "Well it was only a doe", forget the conversation continuing. Nobody wants to hear about that .... lol. Expectations today are a whole lot different than they were years ago, and almost forces people to use whatever aids and technology that they can get their hands on just to keep up with those expectations of today. So, I never said that I don't understand this evolution toward using technology to bolster our skills. Hell, I have succumbed to it myself. One look at the 11 very expensive bows on my rack downstairs will attest to that. Also the drawers full of techno-junk in my shop show that I too chased the "perfect weapon" and "fool-proof equipment" as it all came out....lol. I do understand it, and I am merely commenting on the existence of a pattern that has taken over bowhunting. I am also wondering if there will ever be an end to it all, or wondering what bow season will look like a decade or two down the road with this ever-increasing quest for hunting solutions through technology. And of course I am always interested in whether anybody even cares about such things anymore. It's kind of an interesting subject, I think.

 

Im not talking about bowhunting, im refering too ALL types of hunting... I do however hope that it only takes me a few years to get my first bow deer...

[Doc]

somehow i cant see that happening... deer are to smart...

Never underestimate the power and impact of technology. I have seen so many things become reality that were once said to be flat-out impossible. We can't even imagine the extents and potentials of technology in hunting. My example of "computer hunting" was just one example of hunting technology gone crazy. That is definitely one version of hunting success "being completely dictated by the efforts of some set of mechanical and electrical designers". I suspect the future will continue to surprise us with how invasive technology can become in what we consider to be hunting. Maybe we will pay attention and recognize it when we see it or maybe, as has already happened, we will simply come to accept it all simply because of the slow evolutionary way that it comes on us. 

[Doc]

my analogy has always been commercial vs sport fishing. If all we wanted was to catch the biggest and the most fish, we'd all use nets. But we enjoy the experience, the water, the sun the story and the fight with the fish, so we dont. Archery and hunting in general have always been that for me. I'm glad baiting and spotlighting is illegal here in NY. I don't hunt to kill, I hunt as a sport. The reward is the nice buck, or even a doe that fills my freezer and gives me a story to tell for many years to come. Every deer I've shot has left me with knowledge and a new experience.

I can recall every bow killed deer. It may take a bit of prompting on some, and maybe I would have to consult my records a bit, but eventually I can recall every detail of each bow kill. I can even recall a lot of details of bow-hunts where I got nothing .... lol. Unfortunately, I cannot claim the same with my gun-killed deer. A few may stand out, but most gun shot deer have been relegated to "meat gathering" status. I'm not real proud of that, and have always considered that I had the same attitude toward all my hunting that you talked about above. But apparently my memories and appreciation of the kills are tied very much to the challenge and method of the hunt and the weapon that I used.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I can remember every single kill. Weapon doesnt matter to me. I have a bit of a photographic memory, so that might have something to do with it. I get the shakes with every encounter with a deer that I intend to kill. If that ever stops, I quit.

[Doc]

I can remember every single kill. Weapon doesnt matter to me. I have a bit of a photographic memory, so that might have something to do with it. I get the shakes with every encounter with a deer that I intend to kill. If that ever stops, I quit.

Ah yes, buck fever. hopefully we all get a bit of it to one extent or another.

 

I do remember one huge buck that just about killed me in that regard. I had this huge critter about 35 yards from me for about 20 minutes but he was lightly screened with brush. My stand was just inside a thicket on the edge of a small field, and this guy kept me watching from my ground stand with my bow up all that time. He kept pacing back and forth giving me a good view of a huge rack. And quite a few times me made movement toward a trail that would have brought him the 10 or 15 yards to me through the thin line of brush and right into my shooting lane. I have to say that I was starting to go over the edge. This guy had me worked up that much. In fact a couple of times I started getting a bit light-headed. That kind of scared me. After this 20 minutes of physical and mental torture, he just melted back into the brush without ever giving me a shot. I have to wonder if I could have gotten off a shot anyway, I was in such a screwed up state.

[nyantler]

Wish I could say I still had even a hint of buck fever... any shaking I do is after the kill... My experience is more like playing in an exciting sporting event against an old rival and the score is tied with little time left on the clock. Totally concentrated yet full of anticipation of how it will all turn out. Its an exhilarating experience.. never shaky or nervous. My eyesight is my worst enemy now.

[BizCT]

The first deer I see on every opening day, doe or buck, makes my heart feel like its beating through my chest.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[WNYBuckHunter]

Wish I could say I still had even a hint of buck fever... any shaking I do is after the kill... My experience is more like playing in an exciting sporting event against an old rival and the score is tied with little time left on the clock. Totally concentrated yet full of anticipation of how it will all turn out. Its an exhilarating experience.. never shaky or nervous. My eyesight is my worst enemy now.

Oh i dont shake while the deer is there, its after at this point, ive gotten good at controlling it. I used to have a bad problem with it years ago. Cost me more than one deer.

[Five Seasons]

I'm going to be honest here, my experience differs slightly from Belo.

 

Some of my kills start to disappear from memory. Many blend together now. I most certainly remember the buck kills clearly, but doe kills have all started to mesh into one big blur unless something completely unique occurred.

 

I've lost track of doe kills as well, but I think it's only a few anyhow. The buck kills always come back because when I look at the wall in my garage it's like triggering a memory from a photo. Although as i get more under my belt, some of the smaller buck details begin to fade. The one I had mounted and my first deer are still fresh as ever though.

 

I guess what I meant was, that even if you can't remember the kill, you probably learned from it. My grandpa's favorite story was not about his book buck, but the 4 point that charged him when he was still hunting. That's what I mean by "the story".

 

 

The first deer I see on every opening day, doe or buck, makes my heart feel like its beating through my chest.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

agreed. big buck, small buck, fawn or doe. it's that realization that it's on.

 

 

 I can even recall a lot of details of bow-hunts where I got nothing ....

 

very true as well. cool stuff happens in the woods

 

Oh i dont shake while the deer is there, its after at this point, ive gotten good at controlling it. I used to have a bad problem with it years ago. Cost me more than one deer.

 

it's why I love when a deer sort of just "appears" it doesn't give you any time to think, you have to react. It's when you see the big horns slowly moving in and out of the brush that does it for me. Almost always shake after a shot though.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Belo

[OnHoPr]

A 50 lb recurve with a cedar arrow and a SHARP bear razor will have a complete pass through on a broadside deer at 25 yds if just hitting hair, green rib, and lung are hit. A 70 lb compound with a 550+ gr arrow will smash the heavy bones of the scapula and humerus section  and get into the boiler room from a frontal quartering shot at that range but not necessarily have a complete pass through. Where as the lighter bows with lighter faster arrows can have more resistance to penetration from various aspects. Accuracy comes with trajectory, judging range, speed, composure in hunting situations forms not just on a 3d target range. A truer flight of the arrow will also give better penetration. Did you notice the arrows in the target of the original OP's link. The lungs of a deer are the same size no matter what angling to, away, or broadside the deer is standing without being to extreme on the angle. It is just that lighter weight bows and arrows need to be more specific on the angle of the animal that they are shooting at. That means if in certain situations of hunting such as rattling & grunting or trail watching or scrape watching deer can come in at any angle. These frontal angles only make the target smaller for the lighter bows and/or give a smaller window of time for a non frontal shot. This is an interesting thread. Since my age is in the middle of Doc's and a few of these whipersnappers I will have to give Doc the forum Ishi award to philosophy on said content. You did get a response of good intent here and there. Not condescending, but who do think came up with the newer technologies. That is learning and evolving and not stagnant,  though reigns are needed sometimes to. I seen a you tube video the other day where younger hunters were using long bows, recurves, and percussion caps for a late doe season hunt. So interest is still there even though techno jamming music is in a lot of media nowadays. This happens to even experienced older hunters sometimes before the shot maybe not as bad though.