Asking Permission

[asav2013]

IV never understood all the hype from people " I have no where to hunt" I can understand if your from the city but people from the country should have no problem finding places to hunt, I have 1000+ acres of private land I can JUST TURKEY HUNT ON, I HAVE 1000 + more I can deer hunt, not counting my 410 acre lease , only 200 of that 1000 are family owned, do right by people get your name out there be that guy that every land owner knows your a good person, stop in to a farmer doing chores without question pick up a hay bale feed some cows scrape the manure in the gutter , drive by and see them doing hay with no question jump right in the hay mow and stack hay when the land owner offers you money tell them there permission to hunt there land is payment enough, offer vension, if they hunt or there family hunts offer to stay off the property opening week or when ever they want the land to them selves, explain what you have to offer then will benefit, older people love to sit and talk, stop in for an hour to shoot the breeze, buy something from them, DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY , a little hard work ,a firm hand shake tells alot about a man, show then your willing to go out of your way to help them just to hunt their property,I kill woodchucks for farmers fun for you beneficial for them not loosing equipment and money from hitting a hole,people want every thing handed to them now a days, no hard work comes no reward, gotta get good at it , I'm 18 years old IV been,building these relationships between farmers since I was 12 specially when I turned 16 and could drive , I tried and tried as I might to hunt the farmers land out back of my house for years , just going on my second season leaseing that 410 acres because the owners wife drove my bus I would sit and talk to her instead of sitting in the back screwing around, offered money and vension and help whenever needed,,bang land leased , over many other guys who offered money but not the hospitality and willingness to,go out of there way to be beneficial to the farmer,if all else fails you have just as much land to hunt as I do, its called state lands,

[Hunting3m]

IV never understood all the hype from people " I have no where to hunt" I can understand if your from the city but people from the country should have no problem finding places to hunt, I have 1000+ acres of private land I can JUST TURKEY HUNT ON, I HAVE 1000 + more I can deer hunt, not counting my 410 acre lease , only 200 of that 1000 are family owned, do right by people get your name out there be that guy that every land owner knows your a good person, stop in to a farmer doing chores without question pick up a hay bale feed some cows scrape the manure in the gutter , drive by and see them doing hay with no question jump right in the hay mow and stack hay when the land owner offers you money tell them there permission to hunt there land is payment enough, offer vension, if they hunt or there family hunts offer to stay off the property opening week or when ever they want the land to them selves, explain what you have to offer then will benefit, older people love to sit and talk, stop in for an hour to shoot the breeze, buy something from them, DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY , a little hard work ,a firm hand shake tells alot about a man, show then your willing to go out of your way to help them just to hunt their property,I kill woodchucks for farmers fun for you beneficial for them not loosing equipment and money from hitting a hole,people want every thing handed to them now a days, no hard work comes no reward, gotta get good at it , I'm 18 years old IV been,building these relationships between farmers since I was 12 specially when I turned 16 and could drive , I tried and tried as I might to hunt the farmers land out back of my house for years , just going on my second season leaseing that 410 acres because the owners wife drove my bus I would sit and talk to her instead of sitting in the back screwing around, offered money and vension and help whenever needed,,bang land leased , over many other guys who offered money but not the hospitality and willingness to,go out of there way to be beneficial to the farmer,if all else fails you have just as much land to hunt as I do, its called state lands,

i would probably be the same way, but my parents aren't into hunting. My dad slowly getting into it but it will never get to a point where he will drive me to ask permission to hunt land. When i mentioned that we should start finding a place to hunt before season he told me i have to mail letters hes not going driving all around town to talk to people. There's really nothing at this time i can do, but hope at least one of the few people who got letters in the mail from me say its okay. I don't even have a place to shoot my bow, we live in a fully developed neighborhood where shooting my bow isn't legal, and my parents "don't have time" to bring me to shoot.  

[CuseHunter]

Hunting3m, take a bike ride to the outskirts of the city where there is woods in people's back yards. Before you go look at the tax records. I recently asked a person right next to my college which has some woods surrounding it packed with deer and residential housings but locked it up just by talking to him for 10 minutes

[CuseHunter]

It also might be beneficial to you to find a mentor to take you under their wing. I come from a non-hunting family where I had to buy everything I use to hunt with and am grateful for the guys who I met that hunt as they showed me everything there is to hunt and were happy to do so.

[ItalianHunter5]

Currently working on this from different approaches, face to face with an italian guy that owns a nice piece, email with a girl i go to school with that i just learned that her parents own 35 acres, and phone call with an elderly woman in Maryland that owns fields and woods here. Hoping one of these does the trick!

[GreeneHunter]

I do not bow hunt but every year two individuals (bow hunters) ask and get permission to hunt my property during bow season . It works out well , they tell me what they have seen / taken during bow season and are out of there during rifle !  Its a good working relationship !

[ItalianHunter5]

That sounds like a good setup you got there GreeneHunter. I am more into gun which might freak out the landowners but hey as long as one person says yes, i'm happy!

[josephmrtn]

I got permission to bowhunt a neighbors property this yr... he wasnt sure about rifle

[ItalianHunter5]

If everything goes right when time comes, looks like i locked up "keeping fingers crossed" 2 properties to slug hunt this season! Ironically, both owners hunt but one doesn't hunt the property at all and the other goes out occasionally with his brother. One was over the phone and one was face to face. Looks like we got 2 but I also got denied by 5...

[martinhunter12]

I am 17 and it took me about 6 houses till i got a yes. Be very respectful, try to connect with them. Go and talk to them face to face, you will have a very hard time finding land by putting letters in their mailboxes. Going into it you know more then likely you will get shot down, but guess what, all they can say is no! I grew a pair and did it and it and it was awesome when they said yes!

[JimR]

_{Just another thought  or two, I enjoy goose hunting over cut corn fields. I was usually able to get permission for goose hunting. After establishing a relationship with the landowner and proving}

_{I was responsible and not a slob, I would occasionally be offered the opportunity to deer hunt the same farm.  Perhaps a similar approach (would'nt have to be goose,but some other less sought after hunting opportunity) could open some doors. I would also consider thinking about who you know and what they do for a living. I spent many years working in home healthcare and between my travels and the other folks I worked with we covered alot of ground and talked to alot of people. You may know salesmen, service people , healthcare workers ... who can steer you to some potential   landowners.}

Edited August 29, 2013 by JimR

[Five Seasons]

1. face to face goes over better than anything else. although most people with land don't get a lot of door to door visits so it can be a little intimidating. Choose the right time, so long as its not late or dinner.

2. after being shot down offer venison or ask their price to lease. this is assuming you're not competing with other hunters, to which money most likely wont get you in.

3. if it's a "gun thing" offer to only bowhunt.

4. still not getting in, ask to maybe just turkey hunt the spring and build the relationship and then maybe they will be ok with deer.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

1. face to face goes over better than anything else. although most people with land don't get a lot of door to door visits so it can be a little intimidating. Choose the right time, so long as its not late or dinner.

2. after being shot down offer venison or ask their price to lease. this is assuming you're not competing with other hunters, to which money most likely wont get you in.

3. if it's a "gun thing" offer to only bowhunt.

 

It amazes me to this day how people blatently make generalizations as to how a landowner prefers to be contacted. You are assuming face to face is always the best method and that's false.

 

No one single approach works. It's called communicating to your audience. I have had permission granted via face to face, via phone, and via letter or email. On many occassions, I have been told the method I used was vital in getting permission. My permissions are nearly split equally one third across the board via the various methods.

 

Some general guidelines that can be had: Commerical properties almost always respond better to letters and phone calls. Why? They don't want me taking time away (out of their control) from them growing their business. A letter or call/voicemail lets them decide when to contact me - typically end of day or after hours. I purposely ask for voicemail when calling business owners.

 

Letters also seem to do better in areas where there is higher education, higher income, more development, and elderly folk (at times). A properly composed business letter does wonders - I've had numerous comments on it, even when the answer was a no. Old people love letters, they love getting something in the mail. It's how they communicated when they were youths and young adults. Educated suburban people also like letters because its discreet. Mary Jane and Bob may despise the deer eating the shrubbery on their property, but don't openly state it because of the community yuppies. A letter really opens the discussion instead of rolling up in the truck with Realtree stickers and buck skulls on the window and knocking on the door.

 

Phone calls can work better when the landowner is absent, but you have a round-a-bout connection to them - say a mutual friend. Or, you simply can't physically get to them at a good time.

 

Face-to-face works well when its more rural, a working farm, etc. Some people like to gauge you. Some people HATE being contacted via a knock on the door. I've had as many farmers enjoy the face to face conversation as those who hate it because I'm keeping them from doing something on the farm, even in slow times. Letters work the least with farmers, unless, and this one is a game changer, the wife runs the business end, which happens often. If a woman as listed as the landowner or business owner of the farm, but her husband runs its, a letter works wonders because she is opening it in their office/farmhouse. Farms are the biggest roll of the dice when it comes to method of contact. I typically prefer a call for a guy farmer, offering to stop by and meet them face to face. That allows them to dictate the visit timing and be expecting me.

 

I also prefer a numbers game, the more you attempt, the more you will get a yes. in 2011, I reached out to more than 75 landowners via various methods. Last year was about 40, and this year (10ish) much less because of it just being a bad luck year for me home-wise and because I have quite a bit of new access to take advantage of. My rate of success was low as some contacts I never heard from and got a good amount of no permission, but the sheer number of permissions granted provided plenty of acreage. Several places I hunted a few times and figured out pressure was too high, the property wasn't as good of a performer as it looked on an aerial/topo, or a variety of other reasons. But, weeding them out, I have a handful of parcels that I put into the rotation every year.

 

So really, saying face to face is always the best method is not true. It may be, it may not be. Think a little about your approach, play to your strength and make it happen...if you are illiterate (not joking or being smart), have someone write the letter for you, or focus on your conversational abilities for face-to-face/phone candidates.

[NYbuck50]

face to face or phone is the way to go. i just got sole permission yesterday to hunt a 14 acre piece close to my office via a phone call. The best trick i've learned is to do your homework. the internet is a powerful tool, once i figured out the property i wanted to hunt i found out who owned it and googled the guy. Through some asking around it turns out he worked with my father in law 35 years ago. I started my phone call with that i was so and so's son in law and got to talking. Turns out hes doing some remodeling on a home and i offered my pickup to move stuff for him, as well as offering some venison. 

 

A quick google search and finding a common connection got me sole bow hunting rights to a piece of land that holds a 130" 8 point, a very respectable 10 point, and a half dozen basket racked bucks. 

[phade]

face to face or phone is the way to go. i just got sole permission yesterday to hunt a 14 acre piece close to my office via a phone call. The best trick i've learned is to do your homework. the internet is a powerful tool, once i figured out the property i wanted to hunt i found out who owned it and googled the guy. Through some asking around it turns out he worked with my father in law 35 years ago. I started my phone call with that i was so and so's son in law and got to talking. Turns out hes doing some remodeling on a home and i offered my pickup to move stuff for him, as well as offering some venison. 

 

A quick google search and finding a common connection got me sole bow hunting rights to a piece of land that holds a 130" 8 point, a very respectable 10 point, and a half dozen basket racked bucks. 

 

Unless the person prefers a letter.

 

I have rights from plenty of lands where a letter was the means of contact. One gentleman owned a financial consulting business catering to high-income clients in Cleveland. I sent him a nice letter and he called me back granting permission because the letter "stunned" him as it was nice to know there's a hunter out there who's educated and can talk business. His ground has turned out to be my best Ohio property. One my FIL killed his first deer on in darn near 40 years of hunting. He let me know that he never lets others on but was so impressed that I wrote a letter he could understand, he felt I would be respectful of his property.

 

I knew writing a letter to him would be the right choice and it worked out well. I have numerous other similar access stories from letters. Same with calls. Same with knocks on doors.

 

No one method is the best universally.

 

Knowing the info you did was a great tactic on that case. Well done. I don't know about 14 acres holding 130, a ten, and other bucks, but still. Usually that many bucks holding on a property means there is a fence around it, lol. Most people have trouble holding deer on a square mile property let alone 14 acres. Either way, it was planned and execture to perfection. Keep treating him right.

Edited August 29, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

It amazes me to this day how people blatently make generalizations as to how a landowner prefers to be contacted. You are assuming face to face is always the best method and that's false.

 

No one single approach works. It's called communicating to your audience. I have had permission granted via face to face, via phone, and via letter or email. On many occassions, I have been told the method I used was vital in getting permission. My permissions are nearly split equally one third across the board via the various methods.

 

Some general guidelines that can be had: Commerical properties almost always respond better to letters and phone calls. Why? They don't want me taking time away (out of their control) from them growing their business. A letter or call/voicemail lets them decide when to contact me - typically end of day or after hours. I purposely ask for voicemail when calling business owners.

 

Letters also seem to do better in areas where there is higher education, higher income, more development, and elderly folk (at times). A properly composed business letter does wonders - I've had numerous comments on it, even when the answer was a no. Old people love letters, they love getting something in the mail. It's how they communicated when they were youths and young adults. Educated suburban people also like letters because its discreet. Mary Jane and Bob may despise the deer eating the shrubbery on their property, but don't openly state it because of the community yuppies. A letter really opens the discussion instead of rolling up in the truck with Realtree stickers and buck skulls on the window and knocking on the door.

 

Phone calls can work better when the landowner is absent, but you have a round-a-bout connection to them - say a mutual friend. Or, you simply can't physically get to them at a good time.

 

Face-to-face works well when its more rural, a working farm, etc. Some people like to gauge you. Some people HATE being contacted via a knock on the door. I've had as many farmers enjoy the face to face conversation as those who hate it because I'm keeping them from doing something on the farm, even in slow times. Letters work the least with farmers, unless, and this one is a game changer, the wife runs the business end, which happens often. If a woman as listed as the landowner or business owner of the farm, but her husband runs its, a letter works wonders because she is opening it in their office/farmhouse. Farms are the biggest roll of the dice when it comes to method of contact. I typically prefer a call for a guy farmer, offering to stop by and meet them face to face. That allows them to dictate the visit timing and be expecting me.

 

I also prefer a numbers game, the more you attempt, the more you will get a yes. in 2011, I reached out to more than 75 landowners via various methods. Last year was about 40, and this year (10ish) much less because of it just being a bad luck year for me home-wise and because I have quite a bit of new access to take advantage of. My rate of success was low as some contacts I never heard from and got a good amount of no permission, but the sheer number of permissions granted provided plenty of acreage. Several places I hunted a few times and figured out pressure was too high, the property wasn't as good of a performer as it looked on an aerial/topo, or a variety of other reasons. But, weeding them out, I have a handful of parcels that I put into the rotation every year.

 

So really, saying face to face is always the best method is not true. It may be, it may not be. Think a little about your approach, play to your strength and make it happen...if you are illiterate (not joking or being smart), have someone write the letter for you, or focus on your conversational abilities for face-to-face/phone candidates.

 

i'm not reading all that. generally an older farmer is not going to respond to emails or take the time to write a letter back to you. i'm 29 and email like a fiend and i'd never let someone on my land without meeting htem. whatever works man. you can write a bible to my response. i was simply trying to give some advise. sue me.

 

Edited August 29, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

i'm not reading all that. generally an older farmer is not going to respond to emails or take the time to write a letter back to you. i'm 29 and email like a fiend and i'd never let someone on my land without meeting htem. whatever works man. you can write a bible to my response. i was simply trying to give some advise. sue me.

 

 

 

Apparently farmers generally only own land now?

 

Ignorance is bliss, sometimes. Cliff notes: People prefer different means of communication. Figuring out which one is best for that scenario is the best method. One method is not all-encompassing.

 

Wayne county people...sheesh.

 

Sample Response:

 

XXXX,

 

I’m responding to your letter requesting permission to hunt on XXX property on XXX Road. Please come to the XXXXXX offices at XXXX XXXXXX rd and fill out a registration/disclaimer form – ask for XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX. 

 

Any questions please direct them to XXXXXX when you come to our offices.

 

Regards,

 

XXXXX XXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX Farms, Inc.

Edited August 29, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

i do not take offense to your advise and I agree with it. I take offense in how you jumped down my throat when I felt like I was helping a fellow hunter with some advise. You had previously given your advise and I gave mine. Perhaps I should join shawn and just start bashing fellow hunters instead of offering advice...

 

thanks for the jab at wayne county btw. I do have a BS in engineering, all my teeth and a senior leadership role with a 120million dollar business that is part of a top 5 fortune 100 company.

[crappyice]

Phade- would you be willing to share a sample of your letter?

Access granted to me has always been face to face but i never start with can I hunt here. I like to find "pick your own" farms that are used to having strangers on their property. My first trip is to simply patronize the business typically with my children and make contact with the owner(no discussion of hunting), next time back I'm there to patronize again and feel out the hunting possibility. If yes, awesome. If the answer is no, I still get some locally grown pickings and plant a seed for when the owner is ready to say yes(crop damage is a large seller for these farmers). Of the two properties we have access to both have some restrictions for us to follow(where and when to hunt during their main picking season) but it is typically not a great bother to comply.

Edited August 29, 2013 by crappyice

[phade]

i do not take offense to your advise and I agree with it. I take offense in how you jumped down my throat when I felt like I was helping a fellow hunter with some advise. You had previously given your advise and I gave mine. Perhaps I should join shawn and just start bashing fellow hunters instead of offering advice...

 

thanks for the jab at wayne county btw. I do have a BS in engineering, all my teeth and a senior leadership role with a 120million dollar business that is part of a top 5 fortune 100 company.

 

Woohoo, pushed your button. You took offense to something. WNYB and others have been trying to do that for eons, I feel the collective pat on the back.

 

Your quote wasn't anything special...merely pointed out that people falsely always believe that it is the best way to go. My point was that, that isn't ALWAYS the truth. Nothing against you or bashing you personally (besides your heritage, which is tounge in cheek - how many times have I said to you I hunt in Wayne, have a wife from Wayne, etc.? Lots.)

 

You can take the boy out of Wayne, but can't take the Wayne out of the boy. Relax woodchuck....errrr 315er.

[Cabin Fever]

phade & Belo - Does someone need a hug??      

[phade]

Phade- would you be willing to share a sample of your letter?

Access granted to me has always been face to face but i never start with can I hunt here. I like to find "pick your own" farms that are used to having strangers on their property. My first trip is to simply patronize the business typically with my children and make contact with the owner(no discussion of hunting), next time back I'm there to patronize again and feel out the hunting possibility. If yes, awesome. If the answer is no, I still get some locally grown pickings and plant a seed for when the owner is ready to say yes(crop damage is a large seller for these farmers). Of the two properties we have access to both have some restrictions for us to follow(where and when to hunt during their main picking season) but it is typically not a great bother to comply.

 

 

I'll be honest with you, I've been contemplating writing a book focusing on gaining and finding access for about a year and a half now. The only other book out there on the topic is the younger Eberhart's and that's the worst book of their offering by far. It tells nothing. I have about 1/3 of the manuscript done. I want to be able to keep as much info fresh for the book content. There is a profit-sized market demand for it, especially from an e-book perspective, from the research I've done. My hope is to finish it by Feb/Mar and get it out. I don't think my letters are anything that a reasonable person would be unable to produce. Oftentime there are a handful of subtle statements that make the difference in getting more of a response rate and some have been identified on this thread by others.

 

But, I will say this again, letters are not always the best way, and probably not even the majority of the time. It's being smart enough to figure out the best medium to communicate through.

[phade]

phade & Belo - Does someone need a hug??      

 

Nah, Belo just has ants in his pants today. He's taking things personal when he knows better, especially after the level of back and forth we've had (and he has had with numerous other people).

 

Maybe he needs a reach-around, but not my cup of tea.

Edited August 29, 2013 by phade

[shawnhu]

i do not take offense to your advise and I agree with it. I take offense in how you jumped down my throat when I felt like I was helping a fellow hunter with some advise. You had previously given your advise and I gave mine. Perhaps I should join shawn and just start bashing fellow hunters instead of offering advice...

thanks for the jab at wayne county btw. I do have a BS in engineering, all my teeth and a senior leadership role with a 120million dollar business that is part of a top 5 fortune 100 company.

Belo, since you seem to like taking cheap shots unwarranted, I'll comply. Here's a little reminder of how much an illegal and unethical hunter you really are.

Quote from Belo

You mean like how your best friend and accomplices shoot from a motor vehicle and to leave carcasses lying around everywhere? Yeh Belo, real safe and real ethical. You're a joke, and should probably resign.

reading is > then you. This is the dad of my friend growing up. He was a farmer. He had time to "thin the heard" using his tags. A farm tractor is not a motor vehicle.

Just an FYI. On the nuisance tags it is about an all bets off type of thing. Most regulations that apply during the season, don't for that application. The 500' rule comes to mind as one that DOES still apply yet you can hunt after dark with the aid of a light.

exactly. he can bait, spotlight, even rifle I think. Remember shawn these are huge rural farms.

End Quote.

Keep throwing that 120 million dollar business fortune 100 company around, it doesn't impress anyone but yourself. You're still unethical and spread illegal advice on a hunting forum.

[Five Seasons]

I'll be honest with you, I've been contemplating writing a book focusing on gaining and finding access for about a year and a half now.

 

that's all i needed to read to know more about my buddy phade.

 

reading is > then you. This is the dad of my friend growing up. He was a farmer. He had time to "thin the heard" using his tags. A farm tractor is not a motor vehicle.

exactly. he can bait, spotlight, even rifle I think. Remember shawn these are huge rural farms.

End Quote.

Keep throwing that 120 million dollar business fortune 100 company around, it doesn't impress anyone but yourself. You're still unethical and spread illegal advice on a hunting forum.

 

what are you even talking about? Where did I say I did any of those things? is reading really that hard for you? I clearly stated my friends father several times... And yes, I'm impressed with myself thank you very much. And yes the "hick" bashing is a touchy spot for me. I grew up in the sticks, proud of it, made something of myself and don't take a dime from the government. intelligence and hard work comes from all walks of life and all the crevices of the country.

 

oh and you left your webcam on. i took this screenshot of you reading

Edited August 29, 2013 by Belo