How do you "pick"?

[WesternNY]

QDM's principle is to pass all 1.5 year olds and some 2.5 year olds. 

 

Older is older. 

 

A fully Mature Buck in most QDM principles is 6.

 

Keeping it realistic and fun is Key,  I have had tag soup, but knowing it makes a difference is enough for me.

[WesternNY]

http://www.qdma.com/corporate/mission

 

Taken from above 

 

"What is Quality Deer Management?

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires. This level of deer management involves the production of quality deer (bucks, does, and fawns), quality habitat, quality hunting experiences, and, most importantly, quality hunters.

A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding, and finally, to respect; bestows an ethical obligation upon the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional management, which allows the harvest of any legal buck and few, if any, does.

QDM guidelines are formulated according to property-specific objectives, goals, and limitations. Participating hunters enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to interact with a well-managed deer herd that is in balance with its habitat. A side benefit is the knowledge that mature bucks are present in the herd – something lacking on many areas under traditional deer management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers.

 

[Five Seasons]

I have shot my fair share of yearlings, and I've shot some 2.5's and 3.5's. If I waited to only shoot 5 year olds I wouldn't have a horn on the wall haha. I think area is important. In my woods the food and genetics are great. A 3.5 is on 95% of hunters walls.

 

I also think there is a thin line with hunters. You have to enjoy hunting and shooting deer. If it becomes too scientific or job like then where is the fun? I also still believe that new bow hunters should try and shoot almost any deer they can. If you wait till the 3.5 is standing broadside you may very well fling the arrow over his back. My knees still shake and I have about 5 bow kills now. Now my father is going on 60, hunting since he was 16 with several big buck entries. He's passing on everything under 3.5.

[jjb4900]

I would shoot the first one that offers me the best shot.........no regrets.

[dbHunterNY]

I live and mostly hunt in Rensselaer county.... the worst of any NY county to be picky in (just read this years Hunting Season handbook).  I'll shoot whatever deer I feel is oldest.  Not letting deer get age is our biggest demise of quality hunting here.  Recent years have had me just shooting mature 140+ lb doe.  I've shot 2.5 yr old bucks on rare occasion but try to take the smaller ones.  and rarely even shoot a buck these days. 

 

Number of does I shoot or encourage to get shot are 2/3 the number of fawns I see that year.  2/3 because some die of natural causes or stuff like getting hit by a car.  Also I might not know of every doe that other hunters took in the area.  that would maintain the numbers of deer.

 

my thinking is this... we naturally want to shoot the biggest deer for a given age class that we can find.  This is the complete opposite a trophy deer farm manages their deer.  So we're managing for little bucks not bigger ones.  Where as if you weed out the worst genes and/or the oldest deer you find you're potential for getting something bigger will only increase with time. 

 

now away from the trophy side of things.  i think doing that helps with age structure and buck to doe ratio.  those two things help does get bred and fawn sooner in the year giving fawns a better chance survive winter and predation.  bigger stronger bucks will breed the does and pass on their genetics.

 

not everything and hope that was not where you didn't want to go.  just figured i'd give reasons how and why I pick.

 

Edited October 15, 2013 by dbHunterNY

[WNYBuckHunter]

my thinking is this... we naturally want to shoot the biggest deer for a given age class that we can find.  This is the complete opposite a trophy deer farm manages their deer.  So we're managing for little bucks not bigger ones.  Where as if you weed out the worst genes and/or the oldest deer you find you're potential for getting something bigger will only increase with time. 

 

 

You will never change the genetics of a wild herd. Forget about it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I live and mostly hunt in Rensselaer county.... the worst of any NY county to be picky in (just read this years Hunting Season handbook). I'll shoot whatever deer I feel is oldest. Not letting deer get age is our biggest demise of quality hunting here. Recent years have had me just shooting mature 140+ lb doe. I've shot 2.5 yr old bucks on rare occasion but try to take the smaller ones. and rarely even shoot a buck these days.

Number of does I shoot or encourage to get shot are 2/3 the number of fawns I see that year. 2/3 because some die of natural causes or stuff like getting hit by a car. Also I might not know of every doe that other hunters took in the area. that would maintain the numbers of deer.

my thinking is this... we naturally want to shoot the biggest deer for a given age class that we can find. This is the complete opposite a trophy deer farm manages their deer. So we're managing for little bucks not bigger ones. Where as if you weed out the worst genes and/or the oldest deer you find you're potential for getting something bigger will only increase with time.

now away from the trophy side of things. i think doing that helps with age structure and buck to doe ratio. those two things help does get bred and fawn sooner in the year giving fawns a better chance survive winter and predation. bigger stronger bucks will breed the does and pass on their genetics.

not everything and hope that was not where you didn't want to go. just figured i'd give reasons how and why I pick.

Any effort to address genetics in a wild herd is wasting time. It can't be done. Especially if you are doing it in immature 1.5 year old bucks. You can NOT tell the bucks potential especially at that age. There are too many other factors that govern this. The most critical factor of increasing the body and rack size is age.

[phade]

3.5+ is my target range now. I don't know if I'll ever get over that as a bare minimum goal here in NY. I need to balance my pursuit desires with not burning out. A handful of people can tackle the 4.5+ minimum but they most often (not all) have primo land access and the ability (time) to be picky. I work all year long at it and have to make my encounters count with the time I choose to sacrifice for myself rather than my family and career.

 

I will say I am more apt to shoot a 6 pt 3.5 yo than a buck with great potential at three years old. I'm not saying thr 6 doesn't. I'm just saying I like 6 pt racks, lol. Have a thing for them.

[dbHunterNY]

You will never change the genetics of a wild herd. Forget about it.

 

 

Any effort to address genetics in a wild herd is wasting time. It can't be done. Especially if you are doing it in immature 1.5 year old bucks. You can NOT tell the bucks potential especially at that age. There are too many other factors that govern this. The most critical factor of increasing the body and rack size is age.

 

I'm aware you need a lot of contiguous acreage that's intensively managed and at least a decade worth of time to see any small difference.  I never said anything about 1.5 yr olds either.  I know it's somewhat of a lost cause.  I've gone years without shooting a buck.  Never seen a mature one and you can only go so many years with not shooting one.  If i'm going to shoot a 2.5 yr old or 3.5 yr old I might as well be the runt of the group.  What do I care what he'll do at 6.5 when I was lucky he made it to 2.5 or 3.5 yrs old.  You two are too pessimistic! lol

[WNYBuckHunter]

It has nothing to do with being pessimistic, it has to do with fact and reality.

[dbHunterNY]

It has nothing to do with being pessimistic, it has to do with fact and reality.

I was kidding about the pessimistic part!  that's just how I pick... I wanted to be honest.

[WesternNY]

If more and more New Yorkers pass on 1.5 and some 2.5 you would see a difference in the quality and the number of quality bucks in the State.  

 

Co-ops are a huge success..... and individual farms can be successful, but the more 1.5's can make it to 2.5 is the start.

 

In NY around 120,000 bucks are taken each year, and 54% are 1.5 that is over 60,000 bucks never see 2.     

 

Part of the problem is we live in an immediate gratification society where everyone expects immediate results and need to have an immediate harvest of a buck.

 

Oklahoma's buck harvest only includes 15% 1.5 year olds and they DO NOT have mandatory AR's.

[A Sportsman]

For me, it seems like what I would shoot seems to change as season goes on. Its tough for me to balance where I am as a hunter in terms of my scoutin, knowledge/ability with the reality of how much time I have to get out, which isn't a whole lot. Have posted 5 times so far this season. Sure opening day it would take a real nice buck for me to shoot. But I'm not ashamed to say that if its getting on into november and I don't have a rack, my standards are dropping pretty fast. For us long island guys we are in a slightly different boat. We still have our archery buck tag which can be used through december. So the game isn't necessarily over if we shoot a small buck early in the season. All that said, I really don't want to shoot a little buck. Say 1.5 and under. Have enough of them.

[dbHunterNY]

If more and more New Yorkers pass on 1.5 and some 2.5 you would see a difference in the quality and the number of quality bucks in the State.  

 

Co-ops are a huge success..... and individual farms can be successful, but the more 1.5's can make it to 2.5 is the start.

 

In NY around 120,000 bucks are taken each year, and 54% are 1.5 that is over 60,000 bucks never see 2.     

 

Part of the problem is we live in an immediate gratification society where everyone expects immediate results and need to have an immediate harvest of a buck.

 

Oklahoma's buck harvest only includes 15% 1.5 year olds and they DO NOT have mandatory AR's.

 

I agree... I've hunted successfully in Oklahoma.  It was a learning experience coming from NY though.  Have a QDMA co-op out here one county up and they were talking to me about starting my own.  not sure if I can though.  turns into a "this neighbor won't follow the rules I think, so i'm not doing it."  then some complain about the amount of money you send off to QDMA.  it's all child like complaints if you ask me.

[WesternNY]

I am not sure what you mean by sending all this money to the QDMA.   You can do a co-op without any money or membership to the QDMA.  I do encourage people to join.  Right now they have a special $25, year membership, fantastic Magazine, and a Bass Pro Gift card so it costs you nothing!   If you need some help on resources on how to start a co-op let me know.

[ATbuckhunter]

When it comes to this situation i would shoot the one with the bigger rack. I really only eat fawns and yearlings so a bigger body doesn't matter when I give away most of my buck meat.

[jjb4900]

When it comes to this situation i would shoot the one with the bigger rack. I really only eat fawns and yearlings so a bigger body doesn't matter when I give away most of my buck meat.

interesting.....

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Personally right now i would shoot the bigger 3.5yr if they where standing side by side. after i got my first 3.5yr old it was hard for me to go back to 1.5s. however i shot my first bow dear a 1.5yr od 8pt this year, first 1.5yr old since 2008. i've passed up spikes and 3,4, a 5pt since i got a big one 5 yrs ago. i have gotten 2.5yr old though. since i started leaving the 1.5's i missed a MONSTER last year opening of rifle and saw an astonishing buck immediatly after harvesting my bow deer this year. either it is a fluke or i am seeing improvements. i would absolutely love to start a co-op., and i am seriously thinking of breaking out the tax map and dialing numbers or writing letters. southern washington county farms have started doing this qdm and it has had amazing results. around where i am many are in the if i don't shoot it the next guy will mentality. which i completely understand. everyone has different goals, and needs as well.

 

i should also point out before i had an epiphany in 2007 that i hunted to land wrong and couldn't get a chance at a buck for 7 years. lol. my 2 cents.

Edited October 15, 2013 by BUCKANDAQUARTER

[chiefbkt]

I primarily hunt bucks based on age. Would rather shoot the 3.5 six than the 2.5 eight. I have killed enough deer that points don't matter. Maturity is where I'm at now.

[Five Seasons]

Yeah buck, I had a nice 8 show up 30 seconds after I shot a small buck last year. Oh well.

Honestly for me at this point in my hunting career, I'm going for 2.5's or better with bow, and I'd go for bigger during gun if I had shot a nice buck with bow. But with just 4 buck bow kills in 6 seasons I'm not passing a nice 8. Any new bow hunter should never shy from yearlings either. Bowhunting is too hard to wait for 3.5's to build your experience.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Belo