Governor Announces Support for Crossbows in NY

[bubba]

unfortunately to win this war, we will need more than gun owners to unite.  Why?  Oh we have the numbers to win, but the likelihood of that much involvement is slim at best.  You better find other issues and partner with them.  for instance, in my area, the psych center is earmarked to close.  They fell back on that a bit, but we partnered with their group and we bring both issues to the table.  That psych center is a huge employer in the area plus no one wants all the patients turned loose on the street.  Strength in numbers people. As far as the cross bow thing, I wonder how much resistance is related to the safe act and the governor as it is the same resistance there was before.  If the same governor came out and said he proposed a bill to cut all taxes in the state by half, how many would stand up and say we dont want it from you.  I doubt very many. He also proposed a super highway through my area to connect 81 and 87.  It will be a boost to the economy.  I guess I should not want what is best for my area.  This is not a new issue and neither is cross bow.  it was on the table before the safe act.  I personally think  it will go through because the dems who voted for the safe act are looking for a little something ti hang their hats on for November.  So if it passes, that does not mean we forget what they did to us  a year ago tomorrow.  they still go bye bye.  he supported it before.  he signed it into law temporarily.  It was the senate that stopped it then from being brought back up and let it die. 

Edited January 14, 2014 by bubba

[Doc]

Do not get me wrong, I am not saying that we should be sending emails and letters and phone calls telling him not to pull off his bribery attempt. I am simply saying that we don't have to kiss his ring for him to do it. I have heard all kinds of suggestions here that we should be thanking him and his cohorts for their graciousness. I say, the hell with that! As far as trying to convince other signers of the SAFE ACT to back Cuomo's crossbow proposal, fear not ..... all his minions will march in lock step with or without your letters. In fact the less they hear from you the more desperate they will become to cancel out your resentment for the SAFE ACT.

 

And now a word about competing voter issues.  I believe that the NYS legislators really stepped in it this time. Almost any other piece of gun control legislation would never galvanize the gun owners as much as this so-called SAFE ACT has. Here even a year later we have huge demonstrations from gun owners still taking place. Frankly, I have never seen anything like it. Hidden in this travesty, is a huge opportunity if only we have the intelligence and spine to take advantage of it. We have an opportunity to equate gun control with certain political death. We may have the one historical event and issue that will pull adequate numbers of gun owners together as a solid block of dedicated voters. We may be able to send that message, and send it so loudly that the effects will be felt for decades..... literally decades! It's all been dropped in our lap if we can develop and organize it all and pull off an historic upset. Remember the message: "A vote for gun control is a huge block of votes that you will not get". We want that to become a political fact that will be accepted for years. That message will never be sent if gun owners begin to waver on that resolve and begin splitting votes throughout a myriad of other issues. A historic opportunity, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, will have been lost. The continued attacks on gun owner's rights will be emboldened and accelerated because it will prove that politicians can slap our faces without any cost. And by the way, if we can pull off this upset, politicians will be put on notice that the voter is king in other areas of governance as well. It all goes well beyond just gun issues. It puts the fear of God back into politicians and would re-establish a level of enforced respect for the independence of voters.

[bubba]

The sad truth Doc, less than 20 percent of gun owners have heard of the safe act and even less think it effects them.  With those numbers we are defeated.  Until we get the others on board, which will never happen by November, we need all the help we can get from other issues.  Go out and talk to people about the safe act.  See how many ask what it is and how many say I do not own an assault rifle so it does not effect me.  The king touting it as just that and the media backing his plan has made it tough to get people to sign on. Now with the political move to delay ammo checks, the people who would have gotten pissed off will lay dormant.  Trust me I have talked to literally thousand in different forums and this is what you run into every time.  Even scope and nysrpa are saying branch out.  Until we have a lot of people out telling the facts and educating literally the masses, i twill be very tough to complete.  Do not think for one minute the other side is not energizing it base also.  Touting gun owners as crazies and they need to keep this law.  They have a lot of money on that side and the media helping them.  yes some people got out and shot on Saturday.  they estimate was in 30 states 218 thousand.  In NY around 190 thousand estimated. Where were the other millions of gun owners?   Not out there, and unless they get pissed and energized, they will not be out there in November either. 

[mike rossi]

Then stop talking about the assault weapon provision and focus on the ammo sales... Instead of assault rifle being what comes to mind when people hear safe act change the association to ammo back ground checks with a hefty fee per transaction, done by the state police.

[bubba]

that all sounds great.  but when they delay it for a while and I still say until after the elections, it is a tough sale until it effects people.  Which is why they are delaying it.  Until it effects people it is a mute point.  

[mike rossi]

LOL, No surprise you being an ex judge have more faith in the state police or any LE agency than me... I got no problem believing that their brains are over loaded with the simple task of creating a database... But I also know that they lack integrity and will cooperate with the governor and pull the stunt you are saying they are. (stalling until the election).

 

About the only demograph stupider than police are hunters.. Yeah, they are the children that need to get burned first before they stop touching the stove... But if they don't care about high capacity guns you wont even get the small percentage who might act because of the ammo clause if all they hear about is the assault weapon clauses... You are trying to sell a product to costumers who don't want that product and not offering them an alternate product they will be interested in.

 

Your "home boys" over at scope and what not, they should be sending written surveys to candidates running against incumbants. Those surveys should question their attitudes about every aspect of the safe act. The results of those surveys should be distributed to sportsmen - all sportsmen using whatever means, including face book and forums - not just their paid members.... Those candidates who do not respond, which will be most of them, should be graded as non responsive and only voted for if they are running against a pro safe act imcumbant... Otherwise treat those who blow off the survey as pro safe act. And do me a favor, throw in a question about a hunting season for mourning doves...

 

You also mentioned face book. After 2 years experience with it I will tell you there is a learning curve to use it to the maximum advantage. There is also the ability to "promote" your page through face book itself but it costs money. We have not yet did that on ours, but if anyone sends us a donation we will be happy to do so and post the receipt so you know where the money went... I am sure your cause has more potential for donations however, so that is something you may want to look into. The other thing: when you set the page up - set it up as a cause page, not a personal page. That does prevent you from "inviting" people - as a matter of fact if you attempt to face book threatens to delete your page... But it offers other tools, including paid promotion if you choose to try it.

 

Another thing that should be pointed out: People should not be concerned that their "feed" will go to cause pages they follow on face book. I suspect many people do not subscribe because they believe their feed will be distributed to cause pages as it is to personal pages that they "like". Not true, none of your feed will go to cause pages and cause pages cannot "like" personal pages to receive their feed. So if any of you do not follow our dove hunting page for that reason, be advised we are set up as a cause page and will not receive your feed...

[Doc]

I can't say that I really disagree with some of the comments here. I know human nature, and people have gotten damned apathetic when things outside their personal experiences are concerned. The one thing that I might complain about regarding our gun advocacy groups is that they seem to stay pretty much focused internally. We have not mastered the art of talking to all gun owners. It still remains a case of preaching to the choir. We are great at talking to each other, but nobody has figured out how to effectively get the message across to the disorganized and non-affiliated masses. And so far, I have not seen any evidence that there is an effort to do so other than the public demonstrations. I must say that the anti-gun people are much better at this than we are.

 

However, this does not mean that I am ready to throw in the towel and give up in frustration. That's just not in my make-up. I won't be rolling over for anybody and certainly not the likes of that Cuomo creep.

[sits in trees]

It has really surprised me how little discussion there has been about the Safe Act on this forum, especially being this is one of the only hunting forums in NY state. Guess it shows that there still is a chasm between sportsman (bolt action)and guys who like to own semi auto military style rifles.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You are dead on Sits. Many hunters I talk too still think this really has no effect on them. They are astonished once I explain how it does impact what hunters do. The guys that will be tough to reach are the ones that are not big on target practice, the ones that grab their gun fire a shot to check it, go out and take one deer and then the gun goes back on the rack until next year, If you get 5 or 6 years out of a box of shells they probably wont feel the sting until they replace that box. (or can't)

[bluecoupe]

Do not get me wrong, I am not saying that we should be sending emails and letters and phone calls telling him not to pull off his bribery attempt. I am simply saying that we don't have to kiss his ring for him to do it. I have heard all kinds of suggestions here that we should be thanking him and his cohorts for their graciousness. I say, the hell with that! As far as trying to convince other signers of the SAFE ACT to back Cuomo's crossbow proposal, fear not ..... all his minions will march in lock step with or without your letters. In fact the less they hear from you the more desperate they will become to cancel out your resentment for the SAFE ACT.

 

<snip>

 

I could be mistaken as I'm not going to go back and re-read the entire thread.  Yes, I believe a few replies may have included the words "thanks" etc, but I think more often than not, the sentiment was to simply WRITE to the NY Senate and Assembly members ans ask for their support and at the same time prompted folks to vote out, or try to, the supporters of the SAFE act.   While "thanks" was mentioned I don't think it was the prevalent theme.  I doubt if you can find many, if any sportsmen and women who support the SAFE act and I would be equally surprised if there are any who will vote to keep it's supporters in office. What does surprise me is the sentiment that we should not push to get something done just because we don't like their SAFE act position and intent to vote against them in the future. 

[Doc]

It has really surprised me how little discussion there has been about the Safe Act on this forum, especially being this is one of the only hunting forums in NY state. Guess it shows that there still is a chasm between sportsman (bolt action)and guys who like to own semi auto military style rifles.

It would appear that you can only get little mini-spurts of excitement going. The issue was red-hot when it was passed, but it appears that gun owners have a very short attention span. I don't think it is really a chasm. There's a little something in that law to make any gun owner affected and pissed off. But I do believe that Cuomo read the gun-owning public correctly when he assessed that most gun owners can only maintain their passion for limited amounts of time. And that attention span will never last until the elections and so he is safe and so are all of his willing accomplices.

 

Here is a list of the problems as I see them:

 

1.    The public is apathetic and gun owners are no exception.

2.    Gun owners are not joiners and despise organization.

3.    Gun owners do not anticipate gun loses within their lifetimes and the can't be bothered with gun owners of the future.

4.    The gun advocacy organizations have not mastered the art of dealing with the non-affiliated gun owners.

5.    There is an education problem among non affiliated and un-organized gun owners and they don't want to be bothered with learning.

6.    Gun owners are not willing to vote as a dedicated block and can have their votes diluted among all kinds of other issues.

7.    Cuomo is a masterful politician who completely understand points 1 through 6.

[bubba]

Mike,

 

First of alI have no faith in them.  Second they are not building the database anymore than obama built the failed web site.  They are as much slime as cuomo is.  As far as vetting candidates, that is happening and will happen even more when candidates actually announce they are running for an office.  Our web site and fb page is funded by me personally.  It gets the word out. I understand what you are saying. I sell merchandise such as shirts hats window logos  yard signs etc for a donation.  That helps.  I spent over 500 bucks last summer hauling a float to local parades and got the word out. If we are going to win this, we will need to have to spend soem money either locally or on candidates or promotion through groups.  It is a tough uphill battle but it can be done.  BTW I am an ex judge due to my being outspoken on this issue.  it also cost me a good job.  But sacrifice is part of the deal.

[landtracdeerhunter]

It has really surprised me how little discussion there has been about the Safe Act on this forum, especially being this is one of the only hunting forums in NY state. Guess it shows that there still is a chasm between sportsman (bolt action)and guys who like to own semi auto military style rifles.

 

This doesn't surprise me much considering it is somewhat hidden under Guns and Hunting Laws. SAFE.act information and comments are scattered throughout this forum and it's pretty dam tough to keep it all sorted out.

 

[notasheep]

wow.... now the anti crossbow fellow hunters/real hunters on this site after spending years insulting men like my father who would like to restart bowhunting again with a crossbow,would like us to all band together and fight the evil anti gun legislation/legislators.just imagine how many people who have read your insults now read your call to action and shake their head in disbelief.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

wow.... now the anti crossbow fellow hunters/real hunters on this site after spending years insulting men like my father who would like to restart bowhunting again with a crossbow,would like us to all band together and fight the evil anti gun legislation/legislators.just imagine how many people who have read your insults now read your call to action and shake their head in disbelief.

That aside...do you own or use a gun? Do you believe in the 2nd amendment?

[covert]

wow.... now the anti crossbow fellow hunters/real hunters on this site after spending years insulting men like my father who would like to restart bowhunting again with a crossbow,would like us to all band together and fight the evil anti gun legislation/legislators.just imagine how many people who have read your insults now read your call to action and shake their head in disbelief.

 

I've always been pro-crossbow but I also think we'll look pretty silly with no noses.

 

p.s. The only thing I'll ever thank Coomo for is ingesting a large glass of poison to which there is no antidote. 

Edited January 17, 2014 by covert

[notasheep]

That aside...do you own or use a gun? Do you believe in the 2nd amendment?

sure do ...handguns,rifles even an assault weapon...just pointing out how our different "factions" of sportsmen chose to drive wedges among us for/against crossbows,real hunters/slob hunters,and it got real personal. dont think for a second that the ones that would like to eliminate all hunting and guns are not watching us essentially self destruct from within and using that against us.and i find it  even more ironic that this is a crossbow thread and some of those more vocal,"wedge drivers",if you will,are on here calling for all to come together now and fight.i not only believe in the 2nd amendment but i believe in the entire constitution.i find it just as despicable , when a  self serving group like nyb and their sympathizers hijack a self serving politician, like sweeney,and deprive other americans of their freedoms,ie to choose which hunting implement they want or can use.cuts both ways ya know?

[Doc]

sure do ...handguns,rifles even an assault weapon...just pointing out how our different "factions" of sportsmen chose to drive wedges among us for/against crossbows,real hunters/slob hunters,and it got real personal. dont think for a second that the ones that would like to eliminate all hunting and guns are not watching us essentially self destruct from within and using that against us.and i find it  even more ironic that this is a crossbow thread and some of those more vocal,"wedge drivers",if you will,are on here calling for all to come together now and fight.i not only believe in the 2nd amendment but i believe in the entire constitution.i find it just as despicable , when a  self serving group like nyb and their sympathizers hijack a self serving politician, like sweeney,and deprive other americans of their freedoms,ie to choose which hunting implement they want or can use.cuts both ways ya know?

Actually, I don't believe there is an anti-hunter anywhere that really believes that we are in anyway "self-destructing". We are a very diverse community that has very diverse opinions, back-grounds, and viewpoints. And where this notion ever came from that we have to tip-toe around issues that we don't agree on, I'll never figure out. Is there something about hunters that uniquely requires that we shut down debate and that we all must march along in lock-step just to survive? I don't think we are that fragile, and I intend to continue to express opinions, and even vigorously when they are issues that I feel passionate about. The anti-hunting groups and individuals are not going to dictate my behavior or opinions or my conversation. Don't let them scare you away from expressing your opinions either. Lol .... Apparently from your reply, you have no problems expressing your opinions regardless of who they may piss-off and that is the way it should remain.

 

[notasheep]

Actually, I don't believe there is an anti-hunter anywhere that really believes that we are in anyway "self-destructing". We are a very diverse community that has very diverse opinions, back-grounds, and viewpoints. And where this notion ever came from that we have to tip-toe around issues that we don't agree on, I'll never figure out. Is there something about hunters that uniquely requires that we shut down debate and that we all must march along in lock-step just to survive? I don't think we are that fragile, and I intend to continue to express opinions, and even vigorously when they are issues that I feel passionate about. The anti-hunting groups and individuals are not going to dictate my behavior or opinions or my conversation. Don't let them scare you away from expressing your opinions either. Lol .... Apparently from your reply, you have no problems expressing your opinions regardless of who they may piss-off and that is the way it should remain.

Ok I'm wrong too.....you win this debate......again

[Doc]

Ok I'm wrong too.....you win this debate......again

No, it's not a question of right or wrong. You just have a different opinion.

[notasheep]

No, it's not a question of right or wrong. You just have a different opinion.

Ha...

I'm even wrong when I admit your right. wow you ARE the smartest person on this site!

[Doc]

Ha...

I'm even wrong when I admit your right. wow you ARE the smartest person on this site!

Well see, there you are ....wrong again ....

[Five Seasons]

The sad truth Doc, less than 20 percent of gun owners have heard of the safe act and even less think it effects them.

Source?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bubba]

Talking to people across the state for the past year.  Polls done across the state.  

[Five Seasons]

Link to polls?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk