The Challanges of Leasing

[Bone Seeker]

I can see its gonna be a tough first year on my lease. I leased a nice 150 acres of crops and woods in Oneida County. I went out to scout the land for the first time and meet the owner. Upon inspection, it seemed like every time I thought I found a good area...I would look up, and theres a tree stand. Some very old wooden ones  and a few new ones. Problem is the land has not been properly posted in the past so people are hunting there and the owner doesn't even know it. That's only because hes not a hunter, hes a grain farmer.

The leasing agent said I might spend the first year kicking people out, but it will get better in time. I agree somewhat, but its the police work I could do without. Ive hunted a long time and the last thing I wanna do is have people...Hunters...prosecuted for trespassing But..Ive paid good money for the exclusive hunting rights. By the looks of the deer trails and the ones I saw, theres plenty of deer around, but Id hate to have one of these pirates shoot the BIG BUCK out there. Right?

So...what do I do..The landowner does not want those hunters using 4 wheelers on his land, but they do anyways .He doesn't have time to police the land which is somewhat remote from the main road. I found a clearly beaten path headed right for the neighbors house. So ,do I go over there and be the bad guy and tell them to please stay out and obey the POSTED signs Ill put up. And also ask if the stands out there belong to him, and then ask him to get them out of there.

Oh yea..and then I have to turn around and ask him if I can chase a wounded deer on his property if necessary. Its all a delicate situation. All I know is Im not gonna make a lot of friends.

What Im gonna do is take the tree stands down, and leave them at the base of the tree with a note that basically says stay out. I will however leave my # and tell them that if they call me, we can talk about me putting them on the lease in the future.

So..how would you react to going to your tree stand, and finding it nicely placed at the base of the tree with the note saying your done hunting here. I say it sucks. But..I will also say, that when I see Posted signs, especially nice new ones, I stay out. I don't enjoy hunting , looking over my shoulder all the time.

Oh yea...and what if I run into these deer hunters with stands on my lease out there during turkey season?  I know Ill be there.

I would appreciate any thoughts, opinions, or experiences with this please.

[G-Man]

I've bought property and posted it took down stands and placed them at base of posted sign on trail onto property from neighbor. came back two weeks later and the stands were back up in the same trees. i then cut down said trees with the stands in them, smashing them to pieces.... my name and address are on all posted signs and i am listed in phonebook at said address.

i was nice once.. i'm all for the i didnt know it changed hands but i placed posted signs on every 4 wheeler trail entering the property and properly posted it according to nys laws. if some one asks to hunt i usually lay out a few rules and let them, but i am surprised how many don't ask. i even had one guy ask and was hsocked i told hiim ok , just let me know where your going to be.. he told me he heard i was a deer nazi and wouldn't let anyone hunt..fact is if you didnt ask, i booted them off . took 2 years but the tresspassin gproblem went away and i am know as evil owner to the tresspassers and to the few that have asked over the years i'm their best kept secret.....

In your case i would place a posted sign right in the 4 wheel trail and place the stands at base of tree they were in. i would also go and i would go and introduce yourself to all the neighbors in person and tell them you have leased the property. one might tell you well i've hunted there for years..say well e now and its mine now and i would appreciate if you would stay off or give them option to go on lease with you and patrol it for you when your not there..( do this if you get a good vibe from the person only) they might also own land adjacent and give you access in return for tresspass rights. always meet the neighbors and be courteous . i did when i bought my 1st piece and have access to hundreds that theey own as well.. better to get off on right foot than not..

Edited April 17, 2014 by G-Man

[Bone Seeker]

G man, if I owned I wouldn't feel as bad. But Im hoping I don't find y truck or camper f...cked with. I would do the same as you and let the people who ask ,Im would even welcome a "local" on my lease to be my eyes when Im not there. My lease is for 5 hunters. And of course I have all my buddies on there, but in the coming years Id be open to a local hunter being included. I made the notes to leave with the stands, and laminated them, Ill tie wrap them to the stands and see what happens.

[G-Man]

i assume you have a multi year lease..so you are the owner in a sense. A good local neighbor on your side is well worth letting him/her on it when your not there.just make sure they know to follw stipulations of lease (no atv's for example.) they can put you in a good area fast, and keep an eye on your trailer/truck campsite.

my big stipulation for people i let hunt the techacally arent part of "camp" is if they get something i would like a pic of it for the hunting journal/scrapbook. i have great neighbors and in the years turkeys are slim they prefer my neighbors to roost on i have access to that property as well. as well as a guard when i owned but didnt live there (93-2006). as well as my driveway plowed all winter and free mechanic work on my car and equipment should i need it.

Personally i think your doing it the right way but i would talk/introduce yourself to the neighbors first..saves you time and chance of injury if they take down their own stands..

[First-light]

One fact is when you're gone they will hunt it. No way getting around that. Here is a piece of property that is like you said remote. Its a gem for people to illegally hunt. I would post the crap out of the property. Lay some big trees across the trail and put signs that read no ATV's. Make sure you have the correct property boundaries and take down but don't remove the tree stands. Put a note stating your rights as you are leasing the property. Try to find out who hunts the property because if its people from town rather than a neighbor you don't want them there. If the hunter is a neighbor it could open other doors to you if the person is reasonable. I would rather have a neighbor who I get to know hunting my property than a guy from town who comes up with his buddies. Good luck! 

[moog5050]

Post the land and take the bottom section of each stand.  Leave your number on a note on the stand and tell them to call you.  When they call, tell them that you leased the land with exclusive rights and will return the bottom section to them when the stand is removed.  It allows you to know who it was, obtain their contact info and have the needed conversation that they can't hunt there.  I would also impress all the hidden cams you have the property to monitor.  Worked for me this year with a trespasser.  He even called the troopers because "I stole his stand" but guess who is no longer on my property.  Even the trooper warned him not to return.  Sucks to be the bad guy, but unless you become the miserable jerk who enforces no trespassing rules, you won't control it.  Good luck.

Edited April 18, 2014 by moog5050

[Doc]

Actually, there is nothing here that does not apply to anyone who owns land that is remote from his residence. Fighting trespass is the same whether you own the land or lease it. You have to go through the same processes. The fact that you don't live there makes it a lot tougher to enforce. But really, there's not a lot you can do about it in a practical sense. You can post the hell out of it to advertise your intent, but as far as enforcing trespass violations, that is an entirely different matter.

[phade]

Post the land and take the bottom section of each stand.  Leave your number on a note on the stand and tell them to call you.  When they call, tell them that you leased the land with exclusive rights and will return the bottom section to them when the stand is removed.  It allows you to know who it was, ontain their contact info and have the needed conversation that they can't hunt there.  I would also impress all the hidden cams you have the property to monitor.  Worked for me this year with a trespasser.  He even called the troopers because "I stole his stand" but guess who is no longer near my property.  Even the trooper warned him not to return.  Sucks to be the bad guy, but unless you become the miserable jerk who enforces no trespassing rules, you won't control it.  Good luck.

 

Even when you do everything right though, sometimes the bad guy still gets the buck.

 

In the above case, the guy shot this right off the property line:

[moog5050]

Even when you do everything right though, sometimes the bad guy still gets the buck.

 

In the above case, the guy shot this right off the property line:

 

 

In an open field from a blind, but he was allowed there.  Stop throwing salt Phade. 

[phade]

In an open field from a blind, but he was allowed there.  Stop throwing salt Phade. 

 

Ha, no salt. Just realize even when you do everything right, there are still going to be times when the "bad guy" wins. Such is life being a remote land owner or leaser!

[moog5050]

Ha, no salt. Just realize even when you do everything right, there are still going to be times when the "bad guy" wins. Such is life being a remote land owner or leaser!

 

Same thing can happen if I lived there.  So be it.  We don't own the deer, just the land.

[phade]

Same thing can happen if I lived there.  So be it.  We don't own the deer, just the land.

 

That poor guys stand was in shambles, lol.

[moog5050]

Better the stand than him, which is what I would have preferred given my prior discussions with him.  lol

[NFA-ADK]

Good advice.  I would post the land, talk to the neighbors they can be your best friend and help patrol the area and look after things.  This will give you a idea who might be using the land.  Be nice and friendly show your enthusiasm for what you are doing.  First year might be a pain but hopefully that will take care of most issues.  Good luck hope it works out for you.

   

 

OMG Phade what a slob!!!

Edited April 18, 2014 by NFA-ADK

[Bone Seeker]

Thanks to all for the replies. It is what it is in the end. I will post the shit out of it, and talk to the neighbor to ask permission to recover deer on his land and start a conversation to find out if he hunts my land. Like I said, theres plenty of deer to go around, but if I want to leave my land "quiet" for a week or 10 days, I need to know others aren't just ruining it all for me. Yep, first year will be a lot of telling people to beat it. I don't want to get into any legal BS so I just hope Im not dealing with total bad guys.

Like some have said, and I agree, Im open to a good relationship with a neighbor, WITH limitations of course. Like no hunting when Im there! That will be the opening week and many weekends. One good thing is..its early, I have all summer to get my point across with signs and info gathering. And yes, I will have many cameras out, so Ill know whos still screwing with me. Thanks for the input..I see this is quite common.

[catskillkid]

When i bought my place over 14 years ago, I made it a point to meet every adjacent landowner and shake his hand. There are 7 of them since all of the parcels in my area are very large. Most were floored that someone would actualy take the time to indroduce themselves and were extremely please that I had done so. They are mostly dairy farmers and do not hunt. 3 of them told me it was ok to hunt their place without even asking them, and said they don't want anyone else on their land but me. I now post their lands and keep people out at the landowners request. I now have over 450 acres to hunt with no competition from others. Most people are great as long as you take the time and effort. I now skid firewood logs for them to their home whem I'm doing TSI.  I would do anything for them.

 

I did have trouble with one tresspaser who thought he knew more than others. The county sheriff met me at the guys house to put a stop to it. Have not seen him since.

[Meat Manager]

It is also my first year on a new lease property.

I got a call today from a state policeman who lives on a nearby property and asked if he and his wife may continue to respectfully use the 4 wheeler roads to walk his dogs as he has for years.

That is why I put my number on the signs...for the potential good guys who will actually call for permission.

He mentioned he noticed the increase in posted signs and wanted to give me a call (mission accomplished).

I gave him permission to continue walking up there in non-hunting months.

We then discussed how much those trails get used by non-respectful 4 wheelers and snowmobiles.

I asked him if he encountered anyone else to pass on the "New Management, No Tresspassing!" Ofcourse he said no problem.

I am hoping this is a good first step towards cooperative relationships with the neighbors and leveraging that into additional boundary enforcement.

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Edited April 23, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Fantail]

Does your cell get reception on the property? If not I'd suggest a tracfone or straight talk by zip code. And hit the dec site for a list of dec officers who 'cover' that area.

[asav2013]

Bone seeker pm me, preety sure I know your new lease , better then any one if I'm right about where it is , 95% sure I am

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[New York Hillbilly]

Bone Seeker

I just saw this thread for the first time after you PM'd me and I PM'd you back a couple times. As a landowner who personally borders that property for the past 25 years, nobody on or off this site can tell you as much about the trials, tribulations and challenges you will face with your lease. As I told you privately before seeing this thread I'm happy to share what I know if it helps. As far as four wheelers go you will find that trails cut across almost every piece of property around here. Kids like to ride them all over when not in school, my property included. Around here they stay off me most of the time especially hunting season but I can tell you that your lease does get alot of action with four wheelers during the season. In fact it is how they sneak onto me at times shoot deer and beat feet out before I can catch them. Turkey season four wheeler encroacher/ poacher coward types are even worse. I myself own a four wheeler and would not be without it but it never leaves my 180 acres no matter what. Also, keep an eye on the four wheelers that come from town, cross Rt 20, and go up the old "Bridge Road" onto your lease. I'm tickled pink somebody will finally have some interest and control over the lease you now have, it may make my life less aggravating. Good hunting to you!

Peace

NYH

Edited May 9, 2014 by New York Hillbilly

[G-Man]

4 wheelers are easiest to get rid of. 1 2x6 with 20 penny nails driven through them so they form an x placed on acess trails 10 yards apart, will peal a tire right off the rim. after they lose a few tires, and they tend to stay off. posted sign on the trail entering so theu cant say they didnt see it. an put them up inside the property line 20 yrds or so. mom n dad wont be buying new tires for long let alone towing them back to their houses..

[Bone Seeker]

I too have a 4 wheeler and I haver the owners permission to use it for work, not play. Like putting out stands and recovering a deer. I care less about them than I do poachers. Ill tell them to get out, but poachers will be prosecuted. Yes, maybe we will indeed be helping each other out with me being there and LEGAL.

This kid in the message above is the one who called me. His family used to own this land. As Ive said, Im looking for someone out there to be included on my hunting lease, but they have to also be willing to do the police work for the good of the lease too. Time will tell if it will be worth it in the end. Otherwise Ill just leave town after the season with a bunch of new stands if the poachers leave them in there. 

We'll see....

[Meat Manager]

I've also got a heavily used four wheeler/snowmobile trail on top of the ridge at the back of the property.

I'd like to just gate the trail entrances (I've already posted the crap out of it)...how effective are gates?

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Edited May 9, 2014 by Meat Manager

[whaler]

Gates dont mean much when you are on a quad. They will find a way around. Unless the gate is attached to a fence...

[phade]

Gates are more effective with trucks/cars going down lanes than ATVs.

 

I've repaired enough gates to know that they aren't a solution in themselves, but can help over time to keep the lazy ones out.