Absolutely fedd up!!!!

[eagle rider]

I have an older (1982) Remington 7400 rifle in 30-06 that I fully restored.  It nearly brand new looking.  Even put awesome glass on it (Redfield Revolution 3-9).  The thing is, the rifle is at best 3" at 100 yds.  I have tried every loading imaginable in this rifle.  Both factory ammo and my own hand loads.  It chambers, fires extracts and feeds flawlessly (unlike some other 7400's).  It's just inaccurate.  In fact cold, warm or hot barrel makes almost no difference at all.  I tried higher velocity loadings at around 150 gr and 2900 fps, and 180's at 2700.  165's as well.  BT, bullets, round nose, pointed soft point, you name it.  The rifle is cleaned religiously.  I just can't get her to shoot a group.  I used to have a 750 in 35 Whelen that would shoot an 1.5" with 250 gr Hotcores.  My Marlin 444 out shoots this 30-06!!!!  Anyone have an experience with 7400's that can help me out I'm listening.  

Edited July 20, 2014 by eagle rider

[MACHINIST]

I know you said you cleaned it good but if it has lead fouling in the barrel your fighting a loosing battle.I would soak the barrel overnight with a good wet patch and in the am run another clean patch down it,if it has any grey the barrel is fouled.try that,its made a major difference in some rifle I have owned

[adkbuck]

Hello Eagle Rider,

I feel your pain but I have some good news for you!

I had the same problem with a couple of Remington 7600's in 270 Winchester. I read an article by in a book titled Metallic Cartridge Reloading by M.L. McPherson. He discussed the topic of "Adjusting Seating Depth for Accuracy" (on page 61 of his book). In it explained how reducing bullet jump ( the distance a bullet has to travel to engage the lands of the rifling) greatly enhances accuracy and group size. You can determine the ideal OLA (overall Length) using an OAL gauge:

On my Remington 7600's in 270 Winchester I used an OAL gauge to determine the best OAL for a 15 to 20 mil bullet jump. The result was group my size was reduced to 1 to 1.3 inches. Prior to this my group sizes were about 2.75 to 3 inches.

Feel free to ask or PM me if you have additional questions.

Edited July 20, 2014 by adkbuck

[Lawdwaz]

Hello Eagle Rider,

I feel your pain but I have some good news for you!

I had the same problem with a couple of Remington 7600's in 270 Winchester. I read an article by in a book titled Metallic Cartridge Reloading by M.L. McPherson. He discussed the topic of "Adjusting Seating Depth for Accuracy" (on page 61 of his book). In it explained how reducing bullet jump ( the distance a bullet has to travel to engage the lands of the rifling) greatly enhances accuracy and group size. You can determine the ideal OLA (overall Length) using an OAL gauge:

On my Remington 7600's in 270 Winchester I used an OAL gauge to determine the best OAL for a 15 to 20 mil bullet jump. The result was group my size was reduced to 1 to 1.3 inches. Prior to this my group sizes were about 2.75 to 3 inches.

Feel free to ask or PM me if you have additional questions.

 

Good info. here although the OP's gun could be hamstrung by the magazine length limitations.

 

So many other variables to go into this kind of issue.  How is your shooting technique? Bench? and front/rear rest?

 

Good luck and HAVE FUN!!

Edited July 20, 2014 by Lawdwaz

[adkbuck]

I Agree with you Lawdwaz, magazine length and ejector port limitations could limit the cartridge overall length optimization process. I know as I tried to do the same thing with a 35 Whelen 7600 carbine, the ejection port just couldn't handle the improved cartridge length and I didn't really want to get into machining the receiver to elongate the ejection port. So I was successful with the 270 but wasn't with the 35. How it would work out with the 30-06 I don't know for sure. I think its worth a try. Also I think using a round nose vs. spire point bullets makes a difference as far achievable OAL accuracy improvement. A round nose bullet will give you a shorter OAL with ideal bullet jump compared to a spire point or spitzer.

Edited July 20, 2014 by adkbuck

[Lawdwaz]

The location of the ogive tells the tale.

 

 

 

 

Ejection port?  Shoot 'em all, don't eject 'em!!

[adkbuck]

Firing all rounds would solve the ejection port problem. Not having to eject an unspent round isn't the most elegant solution but agree it would work. Good point.

[ny hunter]

I don't want to start an argument here,,,but maybe its not the rifle?????????????????????

[eagle rider]

Ha, ha......  That will not start an argument.  I wish I could say its the Indian and they the Arrow,... in this case its the arrow.  I shoot a lot!  and I shoot well.  I have two customs (one from the Weatherby Shop on a Vanguard S1 Sub MOA Action in 270 WSM the other from Red Hawk Rifles in Colorado that's based on a 700 in 30-06).  They're both .33 to .25 depending on how I'm feeling and the wind of course with my hand loads.  Most of my rifle shooting is a benched gun off a caldwell rest on the fore end and sandbagged in the rear.  The guns are very stable when shot.  The barrels and actions are very clean.  They are snaked at the end of each relay on the bench (never more than 5 shots in 15 min). In fact I never shoot a rifle two relays in a row (I always bring a couple of rifles to the range).   The cleaning routine is they get mopped with #9 and the actions get scrubbed with an action brush also soaked with #9.  They sit one full day wet.  The next day they get brush out, then jag patched until the patches come out white.  After that a patch with Hoppes Elite Oil goes once down the barrel.  Bolts are cleaned similarly.  The action on the 7400 gets a through cleaning which is likely why I've never had a misfire with it.  If I knew I could ever get this rifle down to 1.5 inches, I'd be really happy.  The gun was used when I got it and it need to go back to Remington because it had extraction issues.  They replaced the extractor and polished the chamber.  Again not know how it was treated makes it a mystery.  The rifle needed some TLC.  Which it has gotten, but was it shot hot and stored dirty, likely yes before I owned it. 

[thphm]

I had one of them, same era same model , same cal. Try this , If you have a new round ( any) put it in a case spinner or something to rotate it,when rotating it see how much the bullet runs out of round compared to the case,mark where it is out the most.Chamber the round,then take it out and check it again.See if it changed and if so how much.

Remington will most likley will never admit it, but back then they had a run of rifles that type that had a machining of the receivers screwed up. The bore and threads for the barrel were not machined true in the receiver they were machined on an angle.

Also the drilling and taping of the threads for the scope mounts and the iron sights were not machined straight with the center of the bore.They were on an angle.

These were confirmed by more then one good gunsmiths back then where I lived .

[adkbuck]

Remington 7600 and 7400's are notoriously famous for not having out of the box accuracy. I just wanted to mention that Hornady makes a curved OAL gauge: http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-OAL-Gauge-Curved-1-Each/. That's the one I use for 7600's. The straight ones are obviously only for bolt and single shot actions.

[eagle rider]

thanks guys this is getting frustrating as you can see.  I have a lot of time invested in this and getting no where.

[Mr VJP]

Considering the time and money you need to invest in this rifle to be happy with it, as well as the cost of all that ammo, and the prospect it may never happen, if it were my rifle, it would be sold.

 

If I wanted a semi auto for hunting, I'd buy something else with the money I got for it.

 

[Lawdwaz]

Considering the time and money you need to invest in this rifle to be happy with it, as well as the cost of all that ammo, and the prospect it may never happen, if it were my rifle, it would be sold.

 

If I wanted a semi auto for hunting, I'd buy something else with the money I got for it.

 

Sometimes in life it is about the hunt, not the game in the bag.

 

 

Maybe he'll get it shooting to his expectations, maybe not but if he does, the satisfaction will be worth the effort.

[Lawdwaz]

Ha, ha......  That will not start an argument.  I wish I could say its the Indian and they the Arrow,... in this case its the arrow.  I shoot a lot!  and I shoot well.  I have two customs (one from the Weatherby Shop on a Vanguard S1 Sub MOA Action in 270 WSM the other from Red Hawk Rifles in Colorado that's based on a 700 in 30-06).  They're both .33 to .25 depending on how I'm feeling and the wind of course with my hand loads.  Most of my rifle shooting is a benched gun off a caldwell rest on the fore end and sandbagged in the rear.  The guns are very stable when shot.  The barrels and actions are very clean.  They are snaked at the end of each relay on the bench (never more than 5 shots in 15 min). In fact I never shoot a rifle two relays in a row (I always bring a couple of rifles to the range).   The cleaning routine is they get mopped with #9 and the actions get scrubbed with an action brush also soaked with #9.  They sit one full day wet.  The next day they get brush out, then jag patched until the patches come out white.  After that a patch with Hoppes Elite Oil goes once down the barrel.  Bolts are cleaned similarly.  The action on the 7400 gets a through cleaning which is likely why I've never had a misfire with it.  If I knew I could ever get this rifle down to 1.5 inches, I'd be really happy.  The gun was used when I got it and it need to go back to Remington because it had extraction issues.  They replaced the extractor and polished the chamber.  Again not know how it was treated makes it a mystery.  The rifle needed some TLC.  Which it has gotten, but was it shot hot and stored dirty, likely yes before I owned it. 

 

One more thing, how is the crown on the beast?  It could be chicken chow mein easily.......

[Mr VJP]

Sometimes in life it is about the hunt, not the game in the bag.

 

 

Maybe he'll get it shooting to his expectations, maybe not but if he does, the satisfaction will be worth the effort.

 

 

LOL, I used to think like that when I was young.  These days I can't be impractical.  Even if I got the rifle to shoot M.O.A., if it cost me weeks of hard effort and double the value of the rifle in the end, I would not get any satisfaction from the hunt.

 

Any accuracy issue can be resolved if you throw enough money at it, but if you end up with a rifle that cost you much more than it's worth, that was one expensive hunt IMO.

[thphm]

I had a 740 before the screwed up 742 No Problems, My bro had a very early 742 No Problems, I had a Later 742 No Problems and a friend had both a a 760 and a 7600 after that no problems All with in a 1 inch dia. at 100 yards.And all have taken many deer.

I just got fed up and traded the screwed up 742 for a 700BDL 30 - 06.at that time.

[bubba]

As mentioned the 740 742 which I own one and the 7400 were not inherently accurate rifles.  Mine is a 30-06 and gets about the same accuracy.  Personally I have shot quite a few deer with it and was never to worried about about a 3 inch group at 100 yards.  That is dead deer all day long.  If I were trying to build a bench or a long range rifle, this is not the rifle I would start with.  They are very meticulous about being clean for sure.  I kept mine as it is as it was an inheritance from an Uncle.  Just my opinion, but I would accept its limitations and have fun with it.  

[Pygmy]

Bubba's post makes the most sense to me...

 

Use the rifle within it's limitations and enjoy it, or send it down the road.

 

The rifle that I have killed more game with than any other is perhaps a 2 MOA rifle day in and day out.  A lucky group might go 1" or 1.5", but 2 inches is the norm..

 

Still, I've killed everything from woodchucks to Alaskan bull moose with it, at ranges from point blank to 400 yards..

 

I'm taking it to Colorado this year for mule deer, despite the fact that I have a couple of other sub MOA rifles I could take..

 

It's just a KILLER...<<smile>>...

[eagle rider]

what is the 2 MOA killer?

[Pygmy]

what is the 2 MOA killer?

 

Winchester M70 lightweight push feed  in .280 Rem with a brown laminate stock.

 

I bought it in 1988  for $289  from either  Grice or Ron Shirk's...I can't remember which.

 

A buddy of mine bought one just like it ( they are within 10 digits of the same serial #) on the same order.

 

I worked up loads for both of them side by side..His was easy to  get 1"-1 1/4" groups with..I had to struggle to get mine to group under 2"..

 

Despite that, it has been a great rifle, and I can never remember missing a shot with it unless I screwed up, which certainly has happened a few times..<<grin>>....

[Daveboone]

I tried one of the Redfield revolution scopes, and was totally dissatisfied with it out of a gun that was known for its accuracy,

I replaced it with a Leupold VX 3 and immediately had my expected groups. I know the Redfields are supposed to be the same as Leopold (spelled 2 diff. ways to make sure I get it right) but that scope sure as hell wasn't worth a damn.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I would try a different scope on it first. That said I had a 7400 in 06 and it was the same thing. 3" @ 100. I shot a lot of deer with it but when I was offered more than I paid for it, it went down the road. My Dad has one in 270 and it shoots about 1.5 @100

Edited July 21, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Pygmy]

I tried one of the Redfield revolution scopes, and was totally dissatisfied with it out of a gun that was known for its accuracy,

I replaced it with a Leupold VX 3 and immediately had my expected groups. I know the Redfields are supposed to be the same as Leopold (spelled 2 diff. ways to make sure I get it right) but that scope sure as hell wasn't worth a damn.

 

 

The only scope I ever had that was a real lemon was a Redfield..

 

That was back around 1980.. Could be just a co-incidence.

[steve863]

A 3 MOA rifle in the hands of a decent shot and good hunter will put way MORE deer down than that expensive and fancy 1 MOA gun in the hands of someone who can only shoot from the bench and has lousy hunting skills.