Shoot one, please.

[Doc]

I say, "beat 'em if they wont hunt"  

[LuckyPickle123]

 

OK,  I looked up the rules.  Just as I figured.

 

 

Junior Hunter Mentoring Program Youth Firearms Deer Hunt 14-15 Year Old Hunters can hunt Deer with a Firearm over the 3-day Columbus Day weekend

• The Youth Firearms Deer Hunt will occur Columbus Day weekend (October 11-13, 2014)
• Resident and non-resident Hunting license holders aged 14 or 15 may take 1 deer with a firearm during the youth deer hunt.
• Junior hunters may use a Deer Management Permit (antlerless-only), Deer Management Assistance Program tag (antlerless-only), or a regular season tag. During the youth deer hunt, junior hunters may use the regular season tag for a deer of either-sex.
• The youth deer hunt will occur in both the Northern Zone and Southern Zone, except in bowhunting only areas and Suffolk County.
• During the youth deer hunt, mentors may not carry a firearm or bow to pursue deer.
•  

 

"Just as I figured"... man I'm all about abiding by the rules.  But I don't understand how people get their grapes off on this stuff.  Guy was at fault, big whoop, your not a DEC officer, so relax tough guy...  Leave it to the people who control this stuff, quit acting like a little kid in preschool that just had their special toy stolen from them.

 

The whole "WITCH! WITCH! BURN HER AT THE STAKE!!!" days are over buddy. 

Edited September 25, 2014 by LuckyPickle123

[steve863]

"Just as I figured"... man I'm all about abiding by the rules.  But I don't understand how people get their grapes off on this stuff.  Guy was at fault, big whoop, your not a DEC officer, so relax tough guy...  Leave it to the people who control this stuff, quit acting like a little kid in preschool that just had their special toy stolen from them.

 

The whole "WITCH! WITCH! BURN HER AT THE STAKE!!!" days are over buddy. 

 

 

I've got sour grapes about what??  I am not a DEC officer, but I wouldn't want to be walking out of the woods with a bow in hand alongside a buddy with a gun, and be within sight of a DEC officer.  You should try it one day and let us know how it turns out.

[growalot]

I have thought on this one a bit and have concluded...It's the most brilliant anti hunting video I have ever seen...it's just sublime in it's subtlety.

[Two Track]

The video is not very hunter friendly.

I can understand getting frustrated at the kid to take a shot, but I know that if not ready or unsure on taking the shot, It is better to let the kid make that call.

 

If the kid's brother finished him off with a shot, was the brother a youth hunter too?

 

My son has had two opportunities to drop a deer last year, but he was unsure on a backstop on one and uncomfortable at the distance for the other, 100-120 yards.  Better safe than sorry, and you have to make the right call for yourself.  Seeing game and not having a good shot that you are comfortable taking, is still a good day out hunting.

 

My daughter just asked me the other last night about going hunting with me.

I told her she is not old enough to actually hunt, but I can take out with me and she will need to try to be quiet while hunting.

 

I let her know the there are classes that you have to take in order to get a license and there are age restrictions on what you can hunt as a youth. Also told her she would need to practice shooting with a real gun before ever going hunting.

 

Will have to see what a trip or two out with her does first before taking classes.  She is good at spotting things, is the first one to jump into a stream, and dives right into a pumpkin to rip out the "guts" to make a jack-o-lantern.

[First-light]

What you may be seeing is an evolution of modern youth. A condition that I have heard referred to as the "pussyfication of American male youth" ..... lol. Well that is a rather crude characterization of it all, but I do believe there is something going on in society that is driving kids away from hunting and outdoor activities in general. The portrayal of hunters as low-brow, insensitive, brutish people is beginning to take ahold. The worship of technology and avoidance of physical efforts looks like it is having a serious impact on the existence of todays young people. Having good strong, fast, thumbs to operate the texting buttons of the smart phones is a whole lot more valued than being a crack shot on the range or a skilled woodsman on the hunt. It is all about the "kinder and gentler" directions of society. Good thing? ..... Bad thing? It all depends on your point of view.

 

Yeah, I know. I sound like every other prior generation when talking about "the trouble with kids today". But just from casual observation, this is the way things look to me. This video does not shock or surprise me.

I work in the media field that kid coming out of college better know a thing or two about technology and every other 

ap that is out there or…you won't get hired. Being a crack shot is great but when you go on that interview you better know the latest technology to get hired. A perfect balance would be wonderful….

[mike rossi]

In the 1970's a major TV station, I think it was ABC, aired prime time "The Guns Of Autumn" and a few months later "The Guns of Autumn Echo."

 

The first film was a documentary over two hours long that had clip after clip of scenes exactly like this video. Several dozen of hunters who were filmed said "they were tricked into filming what they thought was something for the country's bicentennial.

 

ABC said okay will do GOA Echo and you guys (hunters) can give your side of the story. All Echo did was make hunters look even worse, it was more of the same, except worse.

 

The moral of the story: Don't talk to the media and don't agree to being filmed unless you are trained in doing so. The NY Times contacted the club holding the Greene NY Crow Down and butchered them last fall. I suspect they also wanted to speak to the Holley Squirrel Slam people as well. Just yesterday, we got a post on NY Dove Hunting's facebook page from someone asking for dove hunters to interview. We deleted the post, but I did call the number provided, but nobody answered. We also checked out the person who made the request - he had nothing on his face book page indicating he was associated with the magazine he said he writes for or is a hunter. The magazine he cited, is college - run and he apparently attends that college, but no indication he is on the magazine staff. We also looked at the magazine, an "outdoors" magazine, but no articles about hunting. Not to be arrogant, but if he calls me back, I will let him interview me, after cautioning him not to misquote or mischaracterize my statements, but I am prepared to speak to him. I wouldn't want someone on our page not prepared to be interviewed by him.

[Doc]

I will let him interview me, after cautioning him not to misquote or mischaracterize my statements, but I am prepared to speak to him.

If your suspicions are correct, what makes you think he will honor your request? Frankly, I wouldn't give my name to any project that antihunters were preparing to launch. Clever context manipulation and outright lies are the tools of their trade. Tread carefully.

[Doc]

I work in the media field that kid coming out of college better know a thing or two about technology and every other 

ap that is out there or…you won't get hired. Being a crack shot is great but when you go on that interview you better know the latest technology to get hired. A perfect balance would be wonderful….

When technology takes the place of living a life, there is no balance. And that is what I see happening. We have people who can't even walk without collisions because they have become so engrossed in their latest techno-gadget that they zone out of life completely. We have kids that are atrophying into large lumps of fat because they are enslaved with the deluge of video games. Technology has it's place, but when it gets so addictive that it starts pulling the users away from reality and the experiencing of life, something is going wrong.

[Uncle Nicky]

What you may be seeing is an evolution of modern youth. A condition that I have heard referred to as the "pussyfication of American male youth" ..... lol.

 

To a small extent, I would agree. I don't blame the kids so much as I do society in general. In this country and Europe, men are expected to act more feminine, and women are supposed to act more masculine. At least that's the trend I'm observing. Not saying I like this (because I don't), but it's pretty obvious. Strangely enough, I see a lot more fathers teaching their girls to hunt these days, something unheard of 40 years ago when I started.

 

As far as forcing kids to love your hobbies...I have 2 boys, one in his late teens, the other in his twenties. Both fished with me while in diapers, both spent a lot of time with me scouting, hiking, and at the gun range, and eventually took the hunter's safety class & got licenses. Both put in a few years in the woods, killed some deer & hogs (in Georgia), but eventually drifted away from the sports (youngest guy still loves to fish). Both claimed boredom and lack of game as their primary motivation, but both still enjoy time with me at the gun range. No hard feelings here, sometimes you plant a seed.....I wouldn't call either of them a p*ssy to their faces, L-O-L, both are pretty big boys who know how to handle themselves

 

I also grew up with two brothers, one quit after a few outings, one had absolutely no interest at all. My father was quite an outdoorsman, I'm the only one who caught the bug. This was 40 years ago, before we had video games (OK, there was Pong, but that was only rich families), cell phones, and texting.

 

My point in all of this, is that hunting & fishing ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. The father in the video is an idiot, maybe his kid should take him skateboarding or snowboarding and see how well he does at that.   :taunt:  

[Doewhacker]

When technology takes the place of living a life, there is no balance. And that is what I see happening. We have people who can't even walk without collisions because they have become so engrossed in their latest techno-gadget that they zone out of life completely. We have kids that are atrophying into large lumps of fat because they are enslaved with the deluge of video games. Technology has it's place, but when it gets so addictive that it starts pulling the users away from reality and the experiencing of life, something is going wrong.

Says the guy with thousands of posts on an Internet forum.

[steve863]

To a small extent, I would agree. I don't blame the kids so much as I do society in general. In this country and Europe, men are expected to act more feminine, and women are supposed to act more masculine. At least that's the trend I'm observing. Not saying I like this (because I don't), but it's pretty obvious. Strangely enough, I see a lot more fathers teaching their girls to hunt these days, something unheard of 40 years ago when I started.

 

As far as forcing kids to love your hobbies...I have 2 boys, one in his late teens, the other in his twenties. Both fished with me while in diapers, both spent a lot of time with me scouting, hiking, and at the gun range, and eventually took the hunter's safety class & got licenses. Both put in a few years in the woods, killed some deer & hogs (in Georgia), but eventually drifted away from the sports (youngest guy still loves to fish). Both claimed boredom and lack of game as their primary motivation, but both still enjoy time with me at the gun range. No hard feelings here, sometimes you plant a seed.....I wouldn't call either of them a p*ssy to their faces, L-O-L, both are pretty big boys who know how to handle themselves

 

I also grew up with two brothers, one quit after a few outings, one had absolutely no interest at all. My father was quite an outdoorsman, I'm the only one who caught the bug. This was 40 years ago, before we had video games (OK, there was Pong, but that was only rich families), cell phones, and texting.

 

My point in all of this, is that hunting & fishing ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. The father in the video is an idiot, maybe his kid should take him skateboarding or snowboarding and see how well he does at that.   :taunt:  

 

 

Very well put!  You are absolutely correct that hunting is not for everyone.  I always get a kick out of new fathers who buy their kids a gun before they could walk and a lifetime hunting license before they could write their names.  Like they are absolutely sure that the kid will love to hunt.  All one could do is expose the kid to hunting, but it's FAR from a given that the kid will want to make it a lifetime pastime.  Actually the odds are against it, since the majority of society does not hunt.

[Doc]

Says the guy with thousands of posts on an Internet forum.

Hey, the mad stalker/sniper strikes again .... lol. I hope I didn't offend you or sound like I am criticizing your lifestyle.....lol. But I will admit that I have never sent a text message or even have the equipment to do so, do not sit on the couch all day playing video games, and don't walk around wired up for constant communications. So what? But oh my .... I do own a computer. 

[mike rossi]

If your suspicions are correct, what makes you think he will honor your request? Frankly, I wouldn't give my name to any project that antihunters were preparing to launch. Clever context manipulation and outright lies are the tools of their trade. Tread carefully.

 

Doc,

 

There is a difference because I am AWARE this may be a trap. The adult in this video, and the several dozen who got duped in the 1970s with the Guns of Autumn, had no clue. I suspect the father in this video was told by the NY Times this was a documentary about youth hunting seasons or youth hunting or about hunting as a family activity. If it was in fact such a documentary, the producers would have selected better representatives  of the sport. Instead, they found a couple of rogues and an innocent kid and made hunters/hunting and especially, the concept of encouraging youth to hunt, look bad. Yes the fact that it was NY Times should have been a tip off from square one - the Times is NEVER pro hunting or neutral.

 

Back to the Greene NY Crow Down. The club members refused to interview with this Andrew Revkin dude. However, one club officer made a statement using a lot of ten dollar words that didn't draw any conclusions and was meaningless. So what Revkin did was go ahead without an interview, wrote the article anyway, and did include the club officer's statement in a sarcastic manner. So, in this case, not responding did not help. If they contact you - they are definitely going to write an article or make a film. If they interview you, they want you to say things that make your position to look bad. If you present information that is favorable to hunting they may or may not publish it, but if you present unfavorable information they will certainly publish it.... Therefore, if you are a good spokesman, you should speak, if you are not a good spokesman, you should not. Anytime mainstream media based out of a metro area is involved a red flag should be waving at you. However, as I did with this college run Outdoors magazine proceed with caution at all times with the media.

 

It would be instructional to compare this video, the Guns of Autumn, and other so-called documentaries about hunting by the NY Times and similar media with the hunting documentaries produced by Texas Parks and Wildlife and other professional wildlife organizations. (I posted several on here). There is quite a contrast...

[First-light]

The author spent time with the family before and after the hunt. It was clear to everyone what the video was about. The boy in the end, when it came down to shooting an animal, was not ready. 

[mike rossi]

Very well put!  You are absolutely correct that hunting is not for everyone.  I always get a kick out of new fathers who buy their kids a gun before they could walk and a lifetime hunting license before they could write their names.  Like they are absolutely sure that the kid will love to hunt.  All one could do is expose the kid to hunting, but it's FAR from a given that the kid will want to make it a lifetime pastime.  Actually the odds are against it, since the majority of society does not hunt.

 

The kid's attitude might have been much  different if the hunting was done under fair-chase conditions, the adults were not so overbearing, and the NY Times wasn't filming it for a documentary.

 

And, yes, I am saying that hunt was not under fair chase conditions. Perhaps youth seasons designed to create sub- sporting conditions do not really encourage new hunters but do the opposite? Or encourage one type of hunter but not the other?  I have walked up to deer I could have shot, but I never actually walked up to a deer and shot it. There was no woodsman ship, ethics, knowledge about wildlife, or even physical exertion involved in that hunt. The camaraderie was arguing or dictating. Few good memories come from that hunt...

 

If a non-hunter or anti-hunter charged there was nothing to this hunt but using animals for target practice, could you make a defensive argument?  I could not...

[mike rossi]

The author spent time with the family before and after the hunt. It was clear to everyone what the video was about. The boy in the end, when it came down to shooting an animal, was not ready. 

 

Yeah, that's the message, all it takes to be a hunter is willingness to pull the trigger....

 

Put him in a dove field or a beaver impoundment after wood ducks and teal - he wont have time to analyze it. And when he shoots he will have missed. And when he gets home he will be exhausted. He might then still be unsure about hunting, but for different reasons....

Edited September 26, 2014 by mike rossi

[Doewhacker]

Hey, the mad stalker/sniper strikes again .... lol. I hope I didn't offend you or sound like I am criticizing your lifestyle.....lol. But I will admit that I have never sent a text message or even have the equipment to do so, do not sit on the couch all day playing video games, and don't walk around wired up for constant communications. So what? But oh my .... I do own a computer.

Lol lol lol

Hypocrite.

You have embraced all sorts of tech over the years in the same fashion as this new generation. Cordless phones, cell phones, computers, high speed Internet, cars your collection of archery gear, you name it and you are using it. It's not the end of the world just because technology passed you by long ago.

And just what do you do to teach the younger generations what you speak of?

[steve863]

 Perhaps youth seasons designed to create sub- sporting conditions do not really encourage new hunters but do the opposite? Or encourage one type of hunter but not the other?  

 

 

I would not argue with you on that point.  I try to look at it from both perspectives.  It would be nice to take a kid hunting in a quiet time of the Fall season to help them get their first deer, but in other ways you are not exactly giving the kid a true picture of what a typical gun season will be like.  What we are trying to do here is to bring young people into our ranks by giving them a sort of preferential treatment.  I don't know if that's the best way to go about it.  Giving preferential treatment to people on other matters doesn't exactly sit well with the conservative minded hunter mentality, yet most aren't complaining about the youth season, so go figure?

[jjb4900]

This guy reminds me a lot of many other parents who push their kids into sports, more so for them than the kids.........different sport, same story.....you good probably film that same crap on an early Sunday morning with a father dragging his son out of the house to participate in football.

[mike rossi]

I would not argue with you on that point.  I try to look at it from both perspectives.  It would be nice to take a kid hunting in a quiet time of the Fall season to help them get their first deer, but in other ways you are not exactly giving the kid a true picture of what a typical gun season will be like.  What we are trying to do here is to bring young people into our ranks by giving them a sort of preferential treatment.  I don't know if that's the best way to go about it.  Giving preferential treatment to people on other matters doesn't exactly sit well with the conservative minded hunter mentality, yet most aren't complaining about the youth season, so go figure?

 

Are youth seasons about them getting their first deer or about getting them to appreciate the process of hunting? I think its just a little silly to think you can or should, sample hunting like food.... 

[growalot]

 

To a small extent, I would agree. I don't blame the kids so much as I do society in general. In this country and Europe, men are expected to act more feminine, and women are supposed to act more masculine. At least that's the trend I'm observing. Not saying I like this (because I don't), but it's pretty obvious. Strangely enough, I see a lot more fathers teaching their girls to hunt these days, something unheard of 40 years ago when I started.

 

OK so Yep I laughed out loud at that....Let me point something out to you...what has happened is ppl are just acting the way God ,Ma Nature intended...woman hunting and doing all those "manly " things has been going on for eons....and men being nurturing good fathers, calm and gentle...yep through out history...It was actually  societies that created the meek feminine role for woman and the manly men role for men...It had to do with child rearing and power structure....

 

Hell you put a woman in a life and death struggle that knows her true instinct ...she'd be a killing machine...let men allow their true nurturing side out and they will rival any mother....No I'm not a "libber"...just a ppl watcher and have read some rather good biographies....  

[steve863]

OK so Yep I laughed out loud at that....Let me point something out to you...what has happened is ppl are just acting the way God ,Ma Nature intended...woman hunting and doing all those "manly " things has been going on for eons....and men being nurturing good fathers, calm and gentle...yep through out history...It was actually  societies that created the meek feminine role for woman and the manly men role for men...It had to do with child rearing and power structure....

 

Hell you put a woman in a life and death struggle that knows her true instinct ...she'd be a killing machine...let men allow their true nurturing side out and they will rival any mother....No I'm not a "libber"...just a ppl watcher and have read some rather good biographies....  

 

 

Don't know if I could agree with you.  There are exceptions to every rule of course, but women in general have way more patience than men when it comes to nurturing and child rearing.  Other than humans, how many male mammals take part in any nurturing of their young at all?  Not too many.  As far as hunting, I'm sure like yourself there have been some women who hunted, butchered, etc., but in general that has always been predominantly the male role in most every society and culture.

[growalot]

, but in general that has always been predominantly the male role in most every society and culture.

 

 

That just proves the point...like I also said..... brought about do to the females mammary glands for one thing....You need to read some history...but to point out in closer events...WWII  there was a very large secret of sorts in what happened when men came back to find the woman found their true strengths...how it changed everything from then till now..How that war effected men and what it bought out in them...that is just recent history...Wars through out time give glimpses into true human nature with out societal restrictions in play.

[Uncle Nicky]

OK so Yep I laughed out loud at that....Let me point something out to you...what has happened is ppl are just acting the way God ,Ma Nature intended...woman hunting and doing all those "manly " things has been going on for eons....and men being nurturing good fathers, calm and gentle...yep through out history...It was actually  societies that created the meek feminine role for woman and the manly men role for men...It had to do with child rearing and power structure....

 

Hell you put a woman in a life and death struggle that knows her true instinct ...she'd be a killing machine...let men allow their true nurturing side out and they will rival any mother....No I'm not a "libber"...just a ppl watcher and have read some rather good biographies....  

 

Maybe, maybe not. Wasn't meant to be a comment on who is the stronger of the sexes, more a comment on the way I see society is changing in this country, even more so in Europe, and much less so in other parts of the world.