Sundown

[nyantler]

For the record... the above is still true no matter how much of a law breaker any of us are... its not a "holier than thou" stance.. it's just he truth.

[jjb4900]

For the record... the above is still true no matter how much of a law breaker any of us are... its not a "holier than thou" stance.. it's just he truth.

I agree 100%....maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think many have a problem with a hunter taking a few minutes of leeway with shooting hours....the problem lies with those who go out with the "screw the law" attitude and they're going to shoot as long as they can see.........after all, not all watches are exact, but they are or should be fairly close in keeping time.

[nyantler]

I agree 100%....maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think many have a problem with a hunter taking a few minutes of leeway with shooting hours....the problem lies with those who go out with the "screw the law" attitude and they're going to shoot as long as they can see.........after all, not all watches are exact, but they are or should be fairly close in keeping time.

 

I agree most probably don't have a problem with it... My problem, other than its the law, is that if you give most hunters an inch.. they'll take a mile... For all the praying guys do over their deer and talking about the respect they give the deer... and all the talk about not giving the anti's any ammo... etc etc... those same guys think there is nothing wrong with bending the rules just to say they got a deer... sorry but I just can't wrap myself around that mentality. I'll even bet many don't even know what time sunrise or sunset is in their area on any particular day. I just would rather do the right thing... if that means not getting a deer... then so be it... or if I was stupid enough to not follow the law I would sure as hell be willing to suffer the consequences for my actions if I got caught... no excuses. It is my responsibility and nobody else's to know the times and make sure I adhere to them.

 

If someone killed a B&C buck 5 minutes after shooting time, knowing that he was past legal sunset... what story could he have to tell the rest of his or her life about that hunt that wasn't a lie?

Edited November 13, 2014 by nyantler

[WingNut]

Irish...you are wrong in your trespassing post response...it is ILLEGAL to enter any property not belonging to you with out prior permission...posted or not...it is in the NYS penal code and CLEARLY written on the DEC web site

 

Off topic but I don't think this is completely true!

It is not trespassing if property is not posted and unimproved, apparently unused and unfenced.....

[growalot]

Wingnut ...post #128 highlighted in red....is directly from the DEC web site....

 

NYantler....

 

If someone killed a B&C buck 5 minutes after shooting time, knowing that he was past legal sunset... what story could he have to tell the rest of his or her life about that hunt that wasn't a lie?

 

 

Imagine the hell that would rain down  if such a buck went public as being shot after legal hours...be it 5-30 mins after.. especially if taken by a "celebrity". I do not gamble..save an occational scratch off...but I'd place a bet it would be by some of the same that think it's OK for them...

Edited November 13, 2014 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Off topic but I don't think this is completely true!

It is not trespassing if property is not posted and unimproved, apparently unused and unfenced.....

 

Two sections of New York law, Penal Law 140.00-140.10 and Environmental Conservation Law (ECL) 11-2111-2117, define the rights of landowners versus recreationists or others who might enter or use private property. Penal Law 140.10 states (in part):

 

A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building or upon real property which is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders.

 

Note that in Penal Law 140.00, which defines the terms used above, the term "enter or remain unlawfully" is explained as follows:

 

A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.

ECL 11-2113 makes it illegal for persons to trespass on private lands that are properly posted under ECL 11-2111.

 

 This is why the need to PROPERLY POST your property. if you do not then you are basically giving any trespasser one free ride. You may get a ticket issued for the  VOILATION, conviction is another story.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[steve863]

 

 

If someone killed a B&C buck 5 minutes after shooting time, knowing that he was past legal sunset... what story could he have to tell the rest of his or her life about that hunt that wasn't a lie?

 

 

Lying and hunting have been synonymous for a LONG time.  I actually know very few who haven't stretched the truth at least a little about their hunts whether or not illegal acts were involved.  I don't see things being any different with the modern hunting mentality compared to the old either.  That's just the way it is with hunting.  Hunters are typically masters of BS.  All you need to do is to tune into this forum for some daily proof of it.  LOL

[Five Seasons]

We aren't taking about assault rifles.. we're taking about not abiding by a long time established designation of when you can legally kill an animal.. set as a way of insuring the safety of ALL hunters without any ambiguity... justifying breaking that established time frame because you don't like it shows a lack of integrity and ethics... we're not talking about racism, sexism or bias in this case... or even a conspiracy by the DEC to keep you from killing a deer... it is simply a way to make sure that nobody pushes the envelope by hunting until THEY think it is too dark... the law ensures that there is ample light for EVERYONE not just you or any other guy that wants to create his own limits... killing a deer is not so important, nor so hard, that anyone needs to hunt beyond the establish time frame... it's so simple... the start a quit times are given to us to the minute... I would be all for a half hour before sunrise and after sunset, but I would like it to be that you have to be out of the woods and back to your camp, home, or vehicle by then... I bet you would see many more after legal hunting tickets given out then. But, I can see we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one.

 

To answer your question... no, you would not be an unethical hunter if you owned an unregistered assault rifle because you don't have to be a hunter to own an assault rifle... but you would be a criminal... like it or not. I'm sure there are gang members that have all kinds of illegal weapons and wish the laws were different as well.

 

Ethics, by definition is an area of study that deals with ideas about what is good and bad behavior... breaking the law is bad behavior... that makes shooting a deer outside of legal shooting time bad behavior.. hence it is unethical

 

you accused me of being unethical for not following a law. So yes, we are talking about assault rifles.I said unethical "gun owner". Not hunter.

 

Nobody responded yet to my question about putting a wounded deer out of his misery after legal light. And If I live on the PA border, it's now dangerous to shoot 30 minutes before light in NY but not dangerous in PA because the law says so? Safety is safety. I make my living in Safety. I deal with OSHA, NFPA, EPA etc. on a daily basis. Many laws are not even in place for safety but because of bureaucracy. Some are even dangerous. So don't tell me that shooting my bow 20 minutes before sun up at a clear target is dangerous. It's not.

 

How many new laws come out every year because some idiot did something stupid. Again I'll point to gun control. We put in laws that hurt the masses of responsible hunters, drivers, gun owners because a few minority are stupid. Guess what? The stupid will continue to be stupid and you're only hurting the responsible people.

[Five Seasons]

Lying and outdoorsman have been synonymous for a LONG time.  I actually know very few who haven't stretched the truth at least a little about their adventures whether or not illegal acts were involved.  I don't see things being any different with the modern outdoorsman mentality compared to the old either.  That's just the way it is with outdoorsman.  Outdoorsman are typically masters of BS.  All you need to do is to tune into this forum for some daily proof of it.  LOL

 

fixed it for you

 

I don't have any pictures (cell phone died), but let me tell you about the size of this laker I caught. And you wouldn't believe what was in his belly!

[coldwater]

you accused me of being unethical for not following a law. So yes, we are talking about assault rifles.I said unethical "gun owner". Not hunter.

 

Nobody responded yet to my question about putting a wounded deer out of his misery after legal light. And If I live on the PA border, it's now dangerous to shoot 30 minutes before light in NY but not dangerous in PA because the law says so? Safety is safety. I make my living in Safety. I deal with OSHA, NFPA, EPA etc. on a daily basis. Many laws are not even in place for safety but because of bureaucracy. Some are even dangerous. So don't tell me that shooting my bow 20 minutes before sun up at a clear target is dangerous. It's not.

 

How many new laws come out every year because some idiot did something stupid. Again I'll point to gun control. We put in laws that hurt the masses of responsible hunters, drivers, gun owners because a few minority are stupid. Guess what? The stupid will continue to be stupid and you're only hurting the responsible people.

 

Sure, the rules about shooting times exist for safety reasons. I disagree with those rules, I wish they were inline with what other states do (30 min after sunset, etc.), but they're not, and they're stupid. Now, violating these rules is NOT so much a safety issue as a fairness issue. The big buck I shoot 15 minutes after legal time will not be there the next morning for my neighbor to shoot during legal hours. I would have robbed him an opportunity to get that buck legally. My breaking the law directly affects my law-abiding neighbors. There's where the problem lies. Driving 72 instead of 65, if done safely, doesn't take away anything from anybody.

 

As for the issue of putting down a wounded deer after hours, nobody else is affected. I would do it; call the DEC, fine me, call me a poacher, I don't give a sh*t. I shot it, I wounded it, it's my responsibility to clean up my mess.

[irish_redneck]

I agree regarding the finishing of wounded game, and can pretty much guarantee you'd be given the go ahead from encon if you took the time to call.

[nyantler]

you accused me of being unethical for not following a law. So yes, we are talking about assault rifles.I said unethical "gun owner". Not hunter.

 

Nobody responded yet to my question about putting a wounded deer out of his misery after legal light. And If I live on the PA border, it's now dangerous to shoot 30 minutes before light in NY but not dangerous in PA because the law says so? Safety is safety. I make my living in Safety. I deal with OSHA, NFPA, EPA etc. on a daily basis. Many laws are not even in place for safety but because of bureaucracy. Some are even dangerous. So don't tell me that shooting my bow 20 minutes before sun up at a clear target is dangerous. It's not.

 

How many new laws come out every year because some idiot did something stupid. Again I'll point to gun control. We put in laws that hurt the masses of responsible hunters, drivers, gun owners because a few minority are stupid. Guess what? The stupid will continue to be stupid and you're only hurting the responsible people.

 

Editing your original statement doesn't get you off the hook... yes you did say unethical hunter...  I read it a few times to make sure... but I guess that's the kind of thing we can expect from you now that we know a bit more about your ethics... and if you go back and read my posts I never called you unethical... just voicing my difference of opinion... that's kinda what we do here... but after your post edit trick I do question your integrity...

[Five Seasons]

Editing your original statement doesn't get you off the hook... yes you did say unethical hunter...  I read it a few times to make sure... but I guess that's the kind of thing we can expect from you now that we know a bit more about your ethics... and if you go back and read my posts I never called you unethical... just voicing my difference of opinion... that's kinda what we do here... but after your post edit trick I do question your integrity...

 

I edit a lot because i type fast then reread to fix a typo or grammatical error. we've beat this to death. My post says what it says and if at on point it didn't, I edited it to make it say what I meant.

 

If you want to call out my integrity now we're in a whole new arena. I do not lie, cheat or steal. I AM passionate about deer hunting and will get in arguments over it. But I'm always fair and have never called names or broke rules on this board. So again, I do not recall changing that word and if I did it was changed because it was not what I meant and has nothing to do with me trying to win an internet argument.

[bubba]

actually if you stay and shoot a deer after legal hours you are poaching.  Poaching means you are illegally stealing a deer someone else who hunts legally may have gotten the next day.  So in fact yes you do steal. 

[Five Seasons]

actually if you stay and shoot a deer after legal hours you are poaching.  Poaching means you are illegally stealing a deer someone else who hunts legally may have gotten the next day.  So in fact yes you do steal. 

 

I put an animal out of his misery. Slap the cuffs on me officer. Nobody could have "claimed" that deer. He was on private property. And if you're the kind of guy who picks up other deer in the morning that were clearly harvested the night before, than I hope we never cross paths. Would be an interesting conversation as I approach my evening kill the next morning and you're their gutting him.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Belo

[nyantler]

I edit a lot because i type fast then reread to fix a typo or grammatical error. we've beat this to death. My post says what it says and if at on point it didn't, I edited it to make it say what I meant.

 

If you want to call out my integrity now we're in a whole new arena. I do not lie, cheat or steal. I AM passionate about deer hunting and will get in arguments over it. But I'm always fair and have never called names or broke rules on this board. So again, I do not recall changing that word and if I did it was changed because it was not what I meant and has nothing to do with me trying to win an internet argument.

 

Whatever... but to your credit you're right... you aren't a name caller

[nyantler]

I put an animal out of his misery. Slap the cuffs on me officer. Nobody could have "claimed" that deer. He was on private property. And if you're the kind of guy who picks up other deer in the morning that were clearly harvested the night before, than I hope we never cross paths. Would be an interesting conversation as I approach my evening kill the next morning and you're their gutting him.

 

The law is that you call an EnCon officer in that situation... that is the legal way... shooting the deer may have been noble, but for some reason you decided not to notify officials of the incident... that in itself is suspicious.

 

You can't just make your own decision to dispatch a deer after legal hunting hours.

 

Edited November 14, 2014 by nyantler

[thunnus]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/14sunriseset.pdf

C'mon guys!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/14sunriseset.pdf

C'mon guys!

Easy 20-30 minutes of light on each side of those numbers and from the sounds of it from where i sat, Many,Many hunters use that extra light at each end of the day.

[jjb4900]

Easy 20-30 minutes of light on each side of those numbers and from the sounds of it from where i sat, Many,Many hunters use that extra light at each end of the day.

yeah, I could have easily and safely shot deer well before sunrise and well after sunset on Saturday.......but, I didn't.

[thunnus]

Easy 20-30 minutes of light on each side of those numbers and from the sounds of it from where i sat, Many,Many hunters use that extra light at each end of the day.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8305.html

I'm all too aware of the Magic hour.

The dec and law are very clear on this matter, "sunrise to sunset". Probably to protect the sport and hunters in the field from those that "think they saw a deer"

[bubba]

I put an animal out of his misery. Slap the cuffs on me officer. Nobody could have "claimed" that deer. He was on private property. And if you're the kind of guy who picks up other deer in the morning that were clearly harvested the night before, than I hope we never cross paths. Would be an interesting conversation as I approach my evening kill the next morning and you're their gutting him.

 

 

As usual the intent of my post went right over your head.  you said you do not steal. My response and i will break it down for you if you stay and intentionally hunt after hours, you are poaching.  And poaching equals stealing a deer someone may have gotten the next day hunting legally.  your tangent about me taking your deer the next day is hilarious.  i do not need your screw ups to fill my freezer.  

[bubba]

I love it when people justify others speeding to hunt before and after hours.  Any excuse to bend the rules and cheat.

[upstate]

Smells like self-righteousness in here. 

 

 

[Five Seasons]

As usual the intent of my post went right over your head.  you said you do not steal. My response and i will break it down for you if you stay and intentionally hunt after hours, you are poaching.  And poaching equals stealing a deer someone may have gotten the next day hunting legally.  your tangent about me taking your deer the next day is hilarious.  i do not need your screw ups to fill my freezer.  

 

what are you even talking about? My screw up? By finding a deer who would have died within the hour and speeding up the process is my screw up? Get off your freaking high horse. Hope you're in compliance with the safe act. Can't pick and choose your laws right?