Starting a new Tradition.

[DeerJohn]

Would like to share my first experience with inline muzzleloading, for those who may be considering it.  After hunting for many years with my .50 Hawken, I decided I needed a scope and better bullets, so I bought a Traditions Buckstalker with scope.  Nice little rifle, light and handy,but when I tried to sight it, it grouped about 3 inches high and right, and scope adjustments would not change it.  Sent the scope back to Traditions, and after almost a month they sent a new one.  Meanwhile, Gander did loan me a scope for BP season.  Meanwhile, I tried 4 different sabot loads, and only the Powerbelt .50 would actually load without beating the ramrod with a hammer.  Even the no-name bullets that came with my rifle would not load.  Costly experiment.  Now I am trying to reach someone at Traditions, thinking my barrel may be bored wrong.  Should have kept the Hawken.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Would like to share my first experience with inline muzzleloading, for those who may be considering it.  After hunting for many years with my .50 Hawken, I decided I needed a scope and better bullets, so I bought a Traditions Buckstalker with scope.  Nice little rifle, light and handy,but when I tried to sight it, it grouped about 3 inches high and right, and scope adjustments would not change it.  Sent the scope back to Traditions, and after almost a month they sent a new one.  Meanwhile, Gander did loan me a scope for BP season.  Meanwhile, I tried 4 different sabot loads, and only the Powerbelt .50 would actually load without beating the ramrod with a hammer.  Even the no-name bullets that came with my rifle would not load.  Costly experiment.  Now I am trying to reach someone at Traditions, thinking my barrel may be bored wrong.  Should have kept the Hawken.

Buddy has a Traditions and it is a bear to load. He can pretty easily load the 250 gr shockwaves in the super glide sabots though. The second shot in it is about impossible with any bullet we tried without patching the barrel. Seems like the first 4-5" of barrel is the toughest.

[DeerJohn]

gotta do it with the first shot, I guess...

 

[Rusty1034]

I have the same rifle, and had the same problem..… until I started using Blackhorn 209 powder. Now I simply swab pence between shots, and the gum loads fairly easily. I use a Saboted Barnes bullet.

Good luck

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[nyantler]

You're right you should have kept the Hawken... never fix what isn't broken ... the old time side hammer is way more fun... never know when it's going to misfire

 

[CvaBob]

Not all 50 cal barrels are the same. Some cane be off by a few thousands. Some barrels are so loose shooter have to could the barrel to get any kind of accracy. What you have to do is build a load that works with your gun. Finding a good bullet match is a must. If you want to use sabots then I would look into crush rib sabots as they are easy to load vs standard. They even go so far as to make diffrent dia sabots. There is no standard in muzzleloader barrels.

The pic in my avatar is my Acurra V2 and that group was done at 200 yards. It took me a few tries with diffrent bullet loads to get that kind of accuracy .

[Jeremy K]

My CVA was acting the same way until i ditched those pathetic pellets and switched to blackhorn 209.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My CVA was acting the same way until i ditched those pathetic pellets and switched to blackhorn 209.

Why would powders have any bearing on how a billet loads?

[jjb4900]

I had some tough loading with some bullets...been using Hornady SST's with the red sabots...no problems since....need to swab between every 3rd shot or so but that's it.

[Jeremy K]

Why would powders have any bearing on how a billet loads?

 

Because the barrel was loaded up with crap after a single shot.

[DeerJohn]

I do not see it as a powder issue...some bullets will not load 1st time with a clean barrel.  Had trouble loading 1 of the sabots that came in the pak with the rifle.  I believe those are Barnes, but no id.  Costly to try different loads, have to buy a 20 or 25 pack then the store will not take them back.  Someone should sell a variety pack that one could experiment with...hey, maybe I will try that!

[nyslowhand]

Think you're going to find out that every model of ML has a specific load it shots well with. Even identical models may possibly favor different loads. The combo of BP type & charge or sabot style and projectile wgt your ML likes will take some experimenting.

 

Barrel gunking isn't specific to CAV or Traditions. My TC Triumph is a bear to reload after ~3 shots. Fortunately in hunting situations, you're lucky if you get a 2nd shot opportunity with a ML.

 

I've never bought a rifle/ML combo with a scope included. So,..have to assume they are NOT boresighted during assembly. May be why you weren't able to adjust shot placement with the included scope. Save you a lot of headaches if you initially take ML w/scope to a gun shop and pay to have it boresighted.

 

Interesting read about sabots; http://www.chuckhawks.com/sabot_hard_load.htm

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Because the barrel was loaded up with crap after a single shot.

Agreed it can make a difference in the follow up shots. I thought the OP was having the issue on the very first loading.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If you haven't tried them yet, PM me your address and I will send you a couple shockwaves that my buddy can load in his Traditions ML

Edited November 13, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[stoneam2006]

Do you use bore butter in your traditions I had to in my old online made loading it easier and didn't affect the groups

[DeerJohn]

"I've never bought a rifle/ML combo with a scope included. So,..have to assume they are NOT boresighted during assembly. May be why you weren't able to adjust shot placement with the included scope. Save you a lot of headaches if you initially take ML w/scope to a gun shop and pay to have it boresighted."

 

According to the manufacturer, the combo was boresighted.  Actually the rifle shot a nice group @ 50 yards, but 3 inches high and right, and windage/elevation adjustments-even extreme adjustments, would adjust nothing.  Traditions did give me a new scope-no questions-so they may have a problem there.  Mine worked fine after adding a Bushnell scope.

 

[DeerJohn]

Do you use bore butter in your traditions I had to in my old online made loading it easier and didn't affect the groups

do you clean the barrel with bore butter, or use it to lube a patch/lube the sabot?

 

[stoneam2006]

I lube the round slightly and after cleaning I put a light coat in barrel....i always have a patch with some on it in a make shift field cleaning kit. ...makes a huge difference

[Rusty1034]

Why would powders have any bearing on how a billet loads?

Culvert- Blackhorn 209 powder leaves much less residue in the barrel than pyrodex,777 or white hots. I believe it is closer to a smokeless powder than a black powder, and may even be prohibited in some states.

Rusty

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[Rusty1034]

Here's a link to an article with a lot of info on the difference between BH 209 and black powder substitutes.

http://namlhunt.blogspot.com/2013/02/nevada-department-of-wildlife-ban-of.html?m=1

Rusty

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[stubby68]

I have a Traditions Pursuit thumb hole stock. Love the gun. I shot shock waves the first year I used as they came with the gun and were accurate in it. Had same results as many reviews I have read. Small exit and entrence hole with little to no blood now call the junk waves. I switched to hornaday xtp which is what i shoot in my black diamond. Very accurate deadly on deer and easy to load in both guns. Get a box of them from walmart for about $15 easyer then getting the round and sabot seperate. It is a .44 cal pistol round with the right sabot. 245 grain i believe they are

Every gun is different but most times if you are haveing to much crap from powder building up in your barrel fast it is due to using too much and not getting full burn. I never use more then 100 grains of powder. I use triple 7 pellts . I can shoot 5 to 6 rounds before having issues and clean up is easy.

Never had a problem with this set up and round performance is grate. At least for me. Longest shot on deer has been 220 yards. Dropped in tracks and expantion was great. Longest shot on paper with this set up has been 350 yards with 3 inch groups.

All guns are different though so good luck with what ever you try.

I mounted the gun with a centerpoint scope from walmart. Yea cheap scope made be crossman but they are grate scopes. Just as good a scope as my leupolds. Loves these scopes put on my .308 as well.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have a Traditions Pursuit thumb hole stock. Love the gun. I shot shock waves the first year I used as they came with the gun and were accurate in it. Had same results as many reviews I have read. Small exit and entrence hole with little to no blood now call the junk waves. I switched to hornaday xtp which is what i shoot in my black diamond. Very accurate deadly on deer and easy to load in both guns. Get a box of them from walmart for about $15 easyer then getting the round and sabot seperate. It is a .44 cal pistol round with the right sabot. 245 grain i believe they are

Every gun is different but most times if you are haveing to much crap from powder building up in your barrel fast it is due to using too much and not getting full burn. I never use more then 100 grains of powder. I use triple 7 pellts . I can shoot 5 to 6 rounds before having issues and clean up is easy.

Never had a problem with this set up and round performance is grate. At least for me. Longest shot on deer has been 220 yards. Dropped in tracks and expantion was great. Longest shot on paper with this set up has been 350 yards with 3 inch groups.

All guns are different though so good luck with what ever you try.

I mounted the gun with a centerpoint scope from walmart. Yea cheap scope made be crossman but they are grate scopes. Just as good a scope as my leupolds. Loves these scopes put on my .308 as well.

 

Wow. I find that odd about the shockwaves. I have probably shot 20 deer with them and the exit hole always looks like you could put you fist in it.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Culvert- Blackhorn 209 powder leaves much less residue in the barrel than pyrodex,777 or white hots. I believe it is closer to a smokeless powder than a black powder, and may even be prohibited in some states.

Rusty

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I have been thinking of switching myself because I know guys that use it. I just really like the ease of the pellets and the load I have shoots great with the 150gr 777.

 

But the OP seems to have the issue on a clean barrel so it can't be a powder thing.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[stubby68]

Wow. I find that odd about the shockwaves. I have probably shot 20 deer with them and the exit hole always looks like you could put you fist in it.

The only thing I can say is that I had little to no blood on 2 deer and without snow my not have found them. One was hit just behind the front shoulders the other in the shoulder and both had small holes in and out. Shot them through 2 by 6 into sand and little to know expansion. I have read a lot of reviews about them most, all have the same experience I had. Not argueing because I have also read reviews that say what you did. I also know a couple guys who love them. We all like and use different things with different experiences. We just need to find what both our gun and ourselves like. Lucky for me I like the xtp and so do my guns.

[Jeremy K]

Agreed it can make a difference in the follow up shots. I thought the OP was having the issue on the very first loading.

After reading the OP I see where I screwed up, my lack of reading comprehension strikes again