Foolproof hunting schemes

[Doc]

Let's say some chemist in a lab somewhere came up with a product that deer absolutely could not resist, and it didn't violate any existing NYS baiting restrictions. Would you use it?

[wolc123]

Certainly, but only if it was free.  I can usually kill enough deer, to keep my family relatively well fed currently, for very little cost.  

[fasteddie]

Not sure . I use to use some Deer attractant scents.but haven't done so in the past 10 years . It might be the reason why I haven't scored more but that's a matter of opinion .

 

[Four Seasons]

4 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Not sure . I use to use some Deer attractant scents.but haven't done so in the past 10 years . It might be the reason why I haven't scored more but that's a matter of opinion .

 

Sure won’t hurt your success if used right and get nothing but real, fresh urine from a local deer farm that collects scents. As far as foolproof it’s almost foolproof now if a guy plays the wind and has time to sit in a stand for as long as it takes. Now to harvest deer with any kind of age that’s a different story.  Little more goes into that as we all know. 

[Doc]

In the original post, I emphasized the fact that the deer absolutely could not resist the product. Sure this is all theoretical. At least at the present time it is. But the question gets more at the importance of challenge in your deer hunting. More and more each year we scheme and plan different ways of erasing as much challenge as possible from our deer hunting. It almost seems like we would condition or train the deer to come to our shooting spot, we would do it.

I am just curious as to whether you all have limits based on a code of fair chase that place self-limits as to how far you are willing to let science and technology do the hunting for you. How much of my hunting success am I willing to hand over to some nerd in a lab coat or sitting at a design computer? It's a question I that always seem to be wrestling with whether it is a choice of some new super-duper weapon or some new chemical attractant that someone has put on the market. I know that I have pushed that limit around a lot farther than I wish I had over the years. I often wonder where the line is for me.

[fasteddie]

My oldest son has had great success using a deer's tarsal gland smell .

I recall during the shotgun era that so many hunters used Tink's 69 scent that the deer no longer paid any attention to it . 

[wolc123]

The whole “challenge yourself” deal seems counterintuitive to me.  I think we owe it to the deer to kill it as humanely and quickly as possible and that sometimes means minimizing the personal challenge to ourselves.  
 

I will always choose the most lethal, reasonably cost, legal weapon available, in a given season.  That said, there is no doubt that sound is one of the primary concerns when hunting and that creates a space for archery equipment for deer hunting.  
 

In that area (archery season), I will always choose the most lethal, legal combo available (a crossbow with mechanical broadheads) even though it is currently legal only during the peak two weeks of the rut in NY’s southern zone and (3) earlier days in the northern zone, for most able bodied hunters.  
 

Several years ago, a former site member posted the results of non-biased study, based on archery deer hunting on a private vast expanse of military property, which clearly showed evidence of the “clean kill and recovery” superiority of the crossbow / mechanical broadhead combination compared to other combinations, including vertical compound bows and fixed blade broadheads.  
 

I’ll admit that I often fight a personal desire to bring out my old open sighted sidelock muzzleloader, with which I’ve never been able to harvest a deer, and use it during our current ML seasons.  So far, I’ve been able to successfully fight off that urge, since obtaining my scoped inline.  
 

One of these days, If my meat supply is good and I still have an unpunched dmp tag or two by January 1. I just might not be able to resist the temptation of giving it a try.  Until then, I’ll stick with my fully legal in all current ML seasons in NY, in-line 50 cal TC Omega with 2-7x Redfield scope.  

(31)

I do appreciate the fact that NY does allow an early antlerless gun, early archery, early ML (in some areas) middle gun, and late ML season.   I think the long run and “breaks” in between allow for a greater overall deer harvest which helps both the deer themselves, as well as the deer hunters, and even more importantly, others including motorists, homeowners, and farmers.  

Personal challenge is best left for sporting events that don’t involve God’s living creatures.  

Edited Sunday at 01:52 PM by wolc123

[landtracdeerhunter]

18 hours ago, Doc said:

Let's say some chemist in a lab somewhere came up with a product that deer absolutely could not resist, and it didn't violate any existing NYS baiting restrictions. Would you use it?

No. This would take the fun and enjoyment out of deer hunting for me anyways. I found through the years, and as I grow older, to enjoy the finer thing, that nature has to teach.

 

[airedale]

Not for me, it would not be what I consider hunting.

Al

[Tughill Tamer]

No I don't believe I would. That's kinda like taking the hunt out of hunting.

Sent from my moto g power (2022) using Tapatalk

[Four Seasons]

4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

The whole “challenge yourself” deal seems counterintuitive to me.  I think we owe it to the deer to kill it as humanely and quickly as possible and that sometimes means minimizing the personal challenge to ourselves.  
 

I will always choose the most lethal, reasonably cost, legal weapon available, in a given season.  That said, there is no doubt that sound is one of the primary concerns when hunting and that creates a space for archery equipment for deer hunting.  
 

In that area (archery season), I will always choose the most lethal, legal combo available (a crossbow with mechanical broadheads) even though it is currently legal only during the peak two weeks of the rut in NY’s southern zone and (3) earlier days in the northern zone, for most able bodied hunters.  
 

Several years ago, a former site member posted the results of non-biased study, based on archery deer hunting on a private vast expanse of military property, which clearly showed evidence of the “clean kill and recovery” superiority of the crossbow / mechanical broadhead combination compared to other combinations, including vertical compound bows and fixed blade broadheads.  
 

I’ll admit that I often fight a personal desire to bring out my old open sighted sidelock muzzleloader, with which I’ve never been able to harvest a deer, and use it during our current ML seasons.  So far, I’ve been able to successfully fight off that urge, since obtaining my scoped inline.  
 

One of these days, If my meat supply is good and I still have an unpunched dmp tag or two by January 1. I just might not be able to resist the temptation of giving it a try.  Until then, I’ll stick with my fully legal in all current ML seasons in NY, in-line 50 cal TC Omega with 2-7x Redfield scope.  

(31)

I do appreciate the fact that NY does allow an early antlerless gun, early archery, early ML (in some areas) middle gun, and late ML season.   I think the long run and “breaks” in between allow for a greater overall deer harvest which helps both the deer themselves, as well as the deer hunters, and even more importantly, others including motorists, homeowners, and farmers.  

Personal challenge is best left for sporting events that don’t involve God’s living creatures.  

Now listen.  If you are going to speak these words and want us to believe they have merit you might want to quit taking those 200 yard pokes with a weapon best served at 100yds at best. Those wounded God’s creatures still die out there. Really 31 ?  

Edited Sunday at 06:48 PM by Four Seasons

[wolc123]

28 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Now listen.  If you are going to speak these words and want us to believe they have merit you might want to quit taking those 200 yard pokes with a weapon best served at 100yds at best. Those wounded God’s creatures still die out there. 

I certainly did mess up there, on a big doe last Holliday season.  If only I had used my laser range finder, I wouldn’t have taken the 200 yard shot, that I thought was 150.  My bigger mistake on her though, was trying to save some meat, on a neck shot vs a center of mass finishing shot, when we tracked her into her bedroom, after wounding her in the leg with my initial shot.  
 

Talking to my neighbor at church this morning, it sounds like she’s healed up pretty good from the leg wound that I inflicted on her last December. I had a feeling she’d be ok, based on the 5 miles or so of terrain that she covered, as we tracked her after I “clean missed” that follow-up shot.

 

He was in the cabin back in his woods yesterday, when he got an alert on his cell phone.  One of his cameras picked her and her grown fawns up.  She was doing well, completely recovered.  She will be tougher to kill now for sure.  

Maybe I can get her this September, with the new Savage 220 that I hope to pick up.  That should give me a legit 200 yard effective range.  I’d definitely put that at about 150 with my Omega 50.  It certainly had no trouble double lunging this guy at 125 yards last December, landing the bullet right where I wanted it:

(32)

 

Old does are much smarter though.  It ain’t going to be easy, getting the best of that old battle worn one.  

Edit,  

I certainly wouldn’t have taken that ill-fated 200 yard shot with my Omega, were there not still way too many deer around here and had I not struck my first with my suv, getting its first dent, just a week prior.  
 

I’m down to shooting at any legal deer,  if I think I have a 75 % chance of a clean kill since that, where I needed about 90 % certainty prior.  
 

I definitely owe that fine photogenic 3.6 year old 8-point buck to the new deer shoulder sized body line on the passenger side fender of my suv though.  Without that, I never would have rushed home from work and got up in my stand on that last Tuesday of regular ML season.  

Edited Sunday at 07:18 PM by wolc123

[Doc]

I guess I am fortunate enough to still afford some real beef and pork steaks and roasts when I want meat, and don't have to rely of wild game for survival. So the only motivation I have for hunting is to measure my abilities against a deer's abilities. Not some guy's manufactured product against the deer. That all is just another way of saying, "I need the challenge if I am going to hunt". That is what made me get into hunting in the first place. How far am I willing to retreat on that challenge....well that is where the question really lies. It is a tough balance. At 81, I'm not going to lay out on an overhanging limb with a knife clenched in my teeth waiting to drop down on the back of a deer. But I do draw some lines on what I will do to get the job done. I was just curious as to what kinds of limits people put on their hunting to satisfy their version of "fair chase".

But I know we all hunt for different reasons, and that is why I posed this question. There really is no right or wrong answer. We all do what we want, the way we want to do it and that is the way it all should go.

[Four Seasons]

28 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I certainly did mess up there, on a big doe last Holliday season.  If only I had used my laser range finder, I wouldn’t have taken the 200 yard shot, that I thought was 150.  My bigger mistake on her though, was trying to save some meat, on a neck shot vs a center of mass finishing shot, when we tracked her into her bedroom, after wounding her in the leg with my initial shot.  
 

Talking to my neighbor at church this morning, it sounds like she’s healed up pretty good from the leg wound that I inflicted on her last December. I had a feeling she’d be ok, based on the 5 miles or so of terrain that she covered, as we tracked her after I “clean missed” that follow-up shot.

 

He was in the cabin back in his woods yesterday, when he got an alert on his cell phone.  One of his cameras picked her and her grown fawns up.  She was doing well, completely recovered.  She will be tougher to kill now for sure.  

Maybe I can get her this September, with the new Savage 220 that I hope to pick up.  That should give me a legit 200 yard effective range.  I’d definitely put that at about 150 with my Omega 50.  It certainly had no trouble double lunging this guy at 125 yards last December, landing the bullet right where I wanted it:

(32)

 

Old does are much smarter though.  It ain’t going to be easy, getting the best of that old battle worn one.  

Edit,  

I certainly wouldn’t have taken that ill-fated 200 yard shot with my Omega, were there not still way too many deer around here and had I not struck my first with my suv, getting its first dent, just a week prior.  
 

I’m down to shooting at any legal deer,  if I think I have a 75 % chance of a clean kill since that, where I needed about 90 % certainty prior.  
 

I definitely owe that fine photogenic 3.6 year old 8-point buck to the new deer shoulder sized body line on the passenger side fender of my suv though.  Without that, I never would have rushed home from work and got up in my stand on that last Tuesday of regular ML season.  

Yeah. We are all sure that’s the way it went down. You have to be careful posting on two different sites. You see your memory is not as sharp as it once was and you probably forget what you say on other sites about subjects. But yeah I guess it was God’s path. Wow!

[wolc123]

I definitely prefer the taste of whitetail deer over beef and pork and certainly over chicken.   It has nothing to do with money for me.  After pretty much being raised on farm raised domestic animals and birds (mostly chicken), I haven’t paid cash money for a chicken dinner since I moved out of my parents house.  
 

 

[wolc123]

11 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Yeah. We are all sure that’s the way it went down. You have to be careful posting on two different sites. You see your memory is not as sharp as it once was and you probably forget what you say on other sites about subjects. But yeah I guess it was God’s path. Wow!

I am also very thankful for the way God answered my prayer on that buck (thanks for reminding me about that). After I missed him with my crossbow in November (wasn’t sure it was a clean miss because I never found my bolt).  I prayed that “God’s will be done” regarding the carcass recovery.  Little did I know that He’d make me wait a month for that “follow up” shot with my ML  on that Tuesday evening, one minute before sunset.  
 

That was pretty sweet because it was much easier to deal with the carcass in the cold weather and faster to process with less fat to be trimmed post-rut.  

Edited Sunday at 07:51 PM by wolc123

[Daveboone]

Kinda like shooting deer in a pen....turns the sport into just shooting...not hunting. Besides...doesnt it exist already? 

Its spelled...CORN. One reason it isnt legal to bait.

[Doc]

4 hours ago, Daveboone said:

Kinda like shooting deer in a pen....turns the sport into just shooting...not hunting. Besides...doesn't it exist already? 

Its spelled...CORN. One reason it isn't legal to bait.

Yeah, baiting is one of the many things that cross over the line for me. That feeling goes above and beyond the constraints of the law. One of the things that I am not into, is anything that attempts to condition the deer to make my hunting easier. I like my prey to be as natural and "untrained" as possible. Part of hunting for me is finding and understanding currently used food resources......Not creating them. However, I know that that is just one of my own unique personal requirements.

I remember once reading about a Texas deer hunt with an automatic feeder where the guy claimed that the sound of the timed feeder dispensing bait triggered the deer to come in to the feeder. He knew where the deer would be coming in and even knew when. His feeders had literally trained the deer to assist his harvest. That sort of thing is not anything that I really want to be involved with in my hunting. That is not a knock against those that do use such tactics where legal. It is just the sort of thing that my personal "fair chase" limitations will not allow me to take advantage of.

[Moho81]

Something like that sounds more like grocery shopping and not hunting therefore it's not for me. As frustrating as a long season can be without taking a deer I still would not use something like that just to say I killed a deer.