On Ethics

[jjb4900]

as long as done legally and responsibly, I don't care if people:

-eat farm raised animals.

-hunt animals behind fences.

-hunt animals with dogs.

-hunt animals over bait.

-kill piebald deer.

-hunt animals at night.

-snare or trap animals.

-shoot does, button bucks or bucks that aren't mature.

-use crossbows.

-take head shots.

-let me know if I missed anything........I may choose not to do some of those things, but if done legally it's not for me to say what another holds as "ethically correct".........

 

[Curmudgeon]

-let me know if I missed anything........I may choose not to do some of those things, but if done legally it's not for me to say what another holds as "ethically correct".........

 

You forgot butt shots.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Curmudgeon

[jjb4900]

You forgot butt shots.

I would consider that irresponsible, so left it out.

[Doc]

I have to laugh at all this concern about confined animals laying in their own crap. Do you suppose any of them sit around having a nervous breakdown about the fact that they are not allowed to bathe regularly.....lol. And does anyone think they really care that they aren't out there "where the deer and the antelope roam" .... lol. For crying out loud these are animals that will lay in their own crap even if they are out in the pasture, and the most activity that the "free" animals get is sauntering along on their way back to the barn to getting milked, and begrudging that expenditure of effort at that. Ever see a pig that laid around all day pondering his great escape to freedom and cleanliness? Come on......a life of misery??? This is the language of PETA casting human intellect, reasoning and emotions on animals.

[Five Seasons]

I would consider that irresponsible, so left it out.

 

but not head shots?

[jjb4900]

but not head shots?

I could go back and remove that, or just add ass shots to my list.

[Curmudgeon]

I have to laugh at all this concern about confined animals laying in their own crap. Do you suppose any of them sit around having a nervous breakdown about the fact that they are not allowed to bathe regularly.....lol. And does anyone think they really care that they aren't out there "where the deer and the antelope roam" .... lol. For crying out loud these are animals that will lay in their own crap even if they are out in the pasture, and the most activity that the "free" animals get is sauntering along on their way back to the barn to getting milked, and begrudging that expenditure of effort at that. Ever see a pig that laid around all day pondering his great escape to freedom and cleanliness? Come on......a life of misery??? This is the language of PETA casting human intellect, reasoning and emotions on animals.

 

Doc -

 

It's not the language of PETA. It's the language of people who respect the lives of animals they kill and eat. Have you read The Omnivore's Dilemma?

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by Curmudgeon

[Five Seasons]

I could go back and remove that, or just add ass shots to my list.

 

my comment was really more of a thought. I've never made up my mind on either shot. They're low probability and I dont take them (on purpose haha). Just not sure I would beat someone up, eventhough I have. I flip flop on this one.

[jjb4900]

my comment was really more of a thought. I've never made up my mind on either shot. They're low probability and I dont take them (on purpose haha). Just not sure I would beat someone up, eventhough I have. I flip flop on this one.

yeah, I'm sure there are those who take both on a regular basis and never had either one go wrong, so in their mind they are responsible and ethical which is why I threw it in there.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

what's funny though is that dog running is part of the heritage and tradition in the south. It is certainly not without controversy, and I do agree that not obeying the law can be unethical and I would say someone running deer in NY would be unethical. But it's so interesting to me that just a few hours south and it's not considered unethical. Same deer. Same country.

True but now throw in a different animal. Its ok for some with running pig,s bear and most any other creature but throw the word Deer in there and now they cry foul. Kill a pig behind fence and you just had fun and got lunch, Kill a Deer behind fence and you are lower than dirt.  Just Stupidity!

[Curmudgeon]

Please, let's not have another row about deer farms.

 

I just want to know if we can agree that standards of behavior should be higher than the minimum the law demands?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Please, let's not have another row about deer farms.

 

I just want to know if we can agree that standards of behavior should be higher than the minimum the law demands?

 I would agree, equal to or above. I believe a case could also be made that a law may be a hindrance that keeps you from doing something you believe to be ethical.  

Edited December 1, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Mr VJP]

The big question is,who gets to set the standards for the whole community?  And how do you penalize the offenders?

 

[Caveman]

 I would agree, equal to or above. I believe a case could also be made that a law may be a hindrance that keeps you from doing something you believe to be ethical.  

 

 I thought about this too.  A lot of people here have made that argument that any willful lawbreaking is unethical.  But what if you hit a deer and it's laying in the middle of the street with its back broken, clearly suffering?  It's technically illegal to shoot a deer on or across a road.  There are no cars coming in either direction and all available cops are out on calls and unavailable.  I would consider it unethical to not break the law and dispatch it if I had the means.  Some here would disagree 

 

Disclaimer for those who may feel the need to jump down my throat like so many here do:  This situation was hypothetical.  I have never been in this situation, nor have I shot on or across a road.  

[DirtTime]

Please, let's not have another row about deer farms.

 

I just want to know if we can agree that standards of behavior should be higher than the minimum the law demands?

 

Never gonna happen. While I agree..It just won't happen. Joe Smo does his thing, Jane Train does her thing, you do yours, I do mine.

I think the laws should set a base for standards, and then the individual takes it from there. Free will is the key here. But, blatantly asking about breaking the law, or agreeing with anyone who does, is unethical in my book. That's just me.

 

Now, if you take a look at the big picture, NY jumped at the chance to ban a ton of , due to things that didn't happen here. So if you honestly think the folks who just do w/e don't reflect on all of us, you are wrong. Hunting is a community, if you think that jerk that shot the guy with a deer on a cart doesn't reflect on hunters as a whole, you're mistaken.

Edited December 1, 2014 by WNYBuckHunter
eddited inappropriate language, please see forum TOS

[jjb4900]

Never gonna happen. While I agree..It just won't happen. Joe Smo does his thing, Jane Train does her thing, you do yours, I do mine.

I think the laws should set a base for standards, and then the individual takes it from there. Free will is the key here. But, blatantly asking about breaking the law, or agreeing with anyone who does, is unethical in my book. That's just me.

 

Now, if you take a look at the big picture, NY jumped at the chance to ban a ton of $hit, due to things that didn't happen here. So if you honestly think the folks who just do w/e don't reflect on all of us, you are wrong. Hunting is a community, if you think that jerk that shot the guy with a deer on a cart doesn't reflect on hunters as a whole, you're mistaken.

the incident of the guy who shot the guy pulling a deer on the cart had nothing to do with ethics or legal behavior.....dare I say he had the "if it's brown it's down" attitude

[Two Track]

My ethics and safety values have kept me from getting a deer in NY in the few years I have hunted here.

 

I have opportunities of 4 a$$ shots in the past couple of years.

This year had a chance of shooting a scrawny yearling doe on top of a ridge line that has houses in the valley below and a bear cub followed by slightly larger bear (larger sibling? very small sow?)

 

That is also why I will not shoot a treed squirrel while rifle hunting deer.  It may be legal, but I am not convinced that it would be safe.  If using a shotgun, will swap out my slugs for shot shells.

 

Hunting to fill all your tags and donating all the meat is just not right, especially if taken on public lands.  Some of us hunt ethically and want to put meat in the freezer. 

 

[DirtTime]

 

 

I just don't like the term " if it's brown it's down". It is what it is. Get over it. Let it go before you have a stroke people.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Well, then you could look at "ethics" like this. You never just up and shoot. KNOW YOUR TARGET, know your backstop, and know the area.

 

I agreed "ethics" are a point of view. On things like for "who gets to tag the deer?", but not on the law.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JustRob

[Two Track]

By the way, it is legal to load 10 rounds in a ten round mag for a range use or  if using a .17 or .22 for small game hunting.  State Supreme court struck down the 10 round limit in the NY Safe Act as being arbitrary.

 

Shotguns must be 6 rounds of less (3 rounds for federal migratory birds), rifles 6 or less for big game.

[growalot]

 

Hunting to fill all your tags and donating all the meat is just not right, especially if taken on public lands. Some of us hunt ethically and want to put meat in the freezer.

 

 

 Well I hunt ethically and am proud, I was able to help someone that is by far less fortunate than I...would not nor even think of apologizing for not only using the license, I payed for, but enjoying the ability to hunt and not waste the meat I get. It certainly does not make me an unethical hunter...

Edited December 1, 2014 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

  State Supreme court struck down the 10 round limit in the NY Safe Act as being arbitrary.

 

Shotguns must be 6 rounds of less (3 rounds for federal migratory birds), rifles 6 or less for big game.

 Actually the court that struck that down only had jurisdiction in the western regions of NY. That is why it is gray about the rest of the state. Similar to the court that allowed the feeding of deer. It isn't binding on the entire state.

 

and as far as capacity for rifles and shotguns for big game. it is unlawful to hunt with an autoloading firearm with a capacity of more than 6 shells (one which requires that the trigger be pulled separately for each shot), except an autoloading pistol with a barrel length of less than 8 inches.

 

So technically a pump, bolt or lever gun is not bound by those capacities.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hunting to fill all your tags and donating all the meat is just not right, especially if taken on public lands.  Some of us hunt ethically and want to put meat in the freezer. 

 Please explain that? Are you saying a person that shoots a deer or multiple deer and donates them are being unethical? Feeding the poor or homeless is unethical?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[jjb4900]

 Well I hunt ethically and am proud, I was able to help someone that is by far less fortunate than I...would not nor even think of apologizing for not only using the license, I payed for, but enjoying the ability to hunt and not waste the meat I get. It certainly does not make me an unethical hunter...

good for you, you helped out a person who really needed it and don't need to explain yourself any further...but there are many out there who kill for the sake of killing and the donation process is their way of getting rid of a deer so they can go on killing.........I much like you did, would get more satisfaction out of helping a person in need than I would stocking my own freezer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

True but now throw in a different animal. Its ok for some with running pig,s bear and most any other creature but throw the word Deer in there and now they cry foul. Kill a pig behind fence and you just had fun and got lunch, Kill a Deer behind fence and you are lower than dirt.  Just Stupidity!

 

Then there are others that dont have a problem with killing any hand raised animal behind a fence, just dont call it hunting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

 I thought about this too.  A lot of people here have made that argument that any willful lawbreaking is unethical.  But what if you hit a deer and it's laying in the middle of the street with its back broken, clearly suffering?  It's technically illegal to shoot a deer on or across a road.  There are no cars coming in either direction and all available cops are out on calls and unavailable.  I would consider it unethical to not break the law and dispatch it if I had the means.  Some here would disagree 

 

Disclaimer for those who may feel the need to jump down my throat like so many here do:  This situation was hypothetical.  I have never been in this situation, nor have I shot on or across a road.  

 

Ive been in that situation, and shot the deer. A bunch of times I did it in a cop's presence, with their full permission to do so. Flame away....