Disturbing article in NY Outdoor News

[jrm]

I assume this is what you were asking for?

 

S 265.05 Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen.

 

FWIW, also see "PL § 265.20 Exemptions." This allows for ages 12-15 to use rifles/shotguns/airguns and ages 14-15 to use pistols when supervised.

 

And while I am at it... the "three second rule" at stop signs is urban legend. You are only required to "stop." There is no time requirement in the law. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by jrm

[growalot]

So lets get nit picky about this...inorder to get your legal certificate...one must have a parent sign permission for the child to shoot and handle a firearm  with an instructor...BEFORE they have been legally certified to do so but getting the certificate still does not make you legal...you need to have a actual hunting license as I read it....BTW the parents signature at that time is meaningless on a legal stand point for they can't sign off on an ilegal activity...So here you have a law that is well Counter to it's own sub provisions.

Also if you  have or  had a kid in Boy scouts then well getting those camping badges and wilderness survival badges and PERHAPS some that may have gotten shooting badges at a young age at the local shooting range were all law breakers for having a knife is illegal as well if you don't have a hunting license.

 

 

 

Age Restrictions/Requirements

Students must be 11 years or older to take this course (Note: In New York State the minimum age to hunt is 12-years old).

Students 11 to 16-years old must have a signed permission slip (PDF) (54 KB) from a parent or legal guardian to allow for the handling and shooting of a firearm during this course.

 

[jjb4900]

I know this will get ripped apart, but here it goes anyway, forget about what you did as a kid and what you do as an adult for a few minutes......teaching your child how to illegally take a deer by going beyond just allowing him to pull the trigger (probably had a good lesson on how to lie thrown in there as well), is probably setting him up for a lifetime of more of the same, and is much different then allowing a child to target shoot with a BB gun unsupervised, if the parent feels they are ready to do it,.....it's more of setting an example for our children then anything else, kids watch adults and usually follow the path they were led down.

[growalot]

Well I posted before seeing this...

 

 

or a parent, guardian or a person over the age of eighteen designated in writing by such parent or guardian provided the adult has a hunter safety certificate."

 That changes it a little doesn't it...though still regulations state 11 with written permission.....I had my certificate and license and we are gun club members...

[jjb4900]

FWIW, also see "PL § 265.20 Exemptions." This allows for ages 12-15 to use rifles/shotguns/airguns and ages 14-15 to use pistols when supervised.

 

And while I am at it... the "three second rule" at stop signs is urban legend. You are only required to "stop." There is no time requirement in the law. 

I know, but assumed we were talking about unsupervised kids.........and this really isn't about stop signs or kids shooting BB guns anyway.

[steve863]

I'll be the first one to say that shooting a deer a few minutes before or after shooting hours is not a big deal.  Unless you are hunting public land that is patrolled heavily, you will NEVER get caught.  It may be legally wrong, but to me it's not the end of the world.  

 

This issue here is completely different in my opinion.  What you are doing is getting a youngster to violate the law.  In my book this is a very WRONG way to start a kid out.  If anything one should strive to observe all laws when mentoring a kid.  If you tell him shooting a deer before the legal age is OK, next thing you know he will think shooting one out of season is OK, too.  Just WRONG any way you look at it.  You may not like the law, but to get a youngster implicated in violating the law does not speak much for your parenting/mentoring abilities.  I'm sure this kind of stuff is done all the time, but in no way is it the right way to be teaching a kid. You fellas who disagree can flame away all you want, but you are not going to convince me of anything different.  If you want to do this kind of stuff with your kid, obviously none of us can stop you.  But it's still WRONG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[phade]

I know this will get ripped apart, but here it goes anyway, forget about what you did as a kid and what you do as an adult for a few minutes......teaching your child how to illegally take a deer by going beyond just allowing him to pull the trigger (probably had a good lesson on how to lie thrown in there as well), is probably setting him up for a lifetime of more of the same, and is much different then allowing a child to target shoot with a BB gun unsupervised, if the parent feels they are ready to do it,.....it's more of setting an example for our children then anything else, kids watch adults and usually follow the path they were led down.

 

I completely understand where you are getting at. The sky doesn't fall all of the time though. I know just as many people who had horrible upbringing who "made it" in life, whether that be professionally, or a good family, or what have you, as I do those who had crummy parents who turned out to be just as crummy. Studies will certainly show a favorability for less chance of success on some measurable, but at the end of the day, as kids grow up, they become accountable for their actions. The parent isn't doing the kid a favor in this situation, I agree. There's alot of reasons why I shouldn't be where I am, yet I got here. I have a co-worker whose upbringing was horrible - the kind of stories as a human being you just want to hug the guy and tell him it'll be OK. He tells me that its up to him to make the right choices...and he did. He held himself accountable.

 

Really, we're talking more about parenting than the actual lawbreaking, and that I agree with.

[growalot]

personally I would never let a kid 10-14 out shooting even a pellet or BB gun unsupervised....My kids were raised around guns and bows and they were taught a very healthy respect for them...every weapon is potentially loaded and chambered always...every weapon is potentially blocked...and they were shown pictures many times of what it looks like when someone forgets that...but I would never let them out wondering around to shoot at what ever or even targets...for when counting shots two ears and two eyes are safer than one as far as arrows...well they saw what happens if your equipement fails being out shooting stumps alone  when an arrow decides to rip through your wrist isn't a risk I was willing to take.

[phade]

I'll be the first one to say that shooting a deer a few minutes before or after shooting hours is not a big deal.  Unless you are hunting public land that is patrolled heavily, you will NEVER get caught.  It may be legally wrong, but to me it's not the end of the world.  

 

This issue here is completely different in my opinion.  What you are doing is getting a youngster to violate the law.  In my book this is a very WRONG way to start a kid out.  If anything one should strive to observe all laws when mentoring a kid.  If you tell him shooting a deer before the legal age is OK, next thing you know he will think shooting one out of season is OK, too.  Just WRONG any way you look at it.  You may not like the law, but to get a youngster implicated in violating the law does not speak much for your parenting/mentoring abilities.  I'm sure this kind of stuff is done all the time, but in no way is it the right way to be teaching a kid. You fellas who disagree can flame away all you want, but you are not going to convince me of anything different.  If you want to do this kind of stuff with your kid, obviously none of us can stop you.  But it's still WRONG.

 

Tell that to any parent letting their kid shoot a bb gun unsupervised. Next thing you know, they are a serial killer, right?

Edited January 13, 2015 by phade

[growalot]

OMG  your still trying to make it sound OK it is not!! I don't give a tinkers damn  who 's kid it is ...kids have brain farts as it were...and that one millisecond  in time is all it takes...and it just dang well isn't worth the ego some parent has in thinking they " taught their kid better. "  We as parents CAN NOT jump into our kids brains 24 /7 to pull the strings we think need pulling.

In example...I taught my daughter to never ever step on the front of the grocery cart...it would evenually flip on her...well hey how many times  have you seen moms let their kids ride the front of the cart....I turned my back to pick a loaf of bread and heard the smash and scream ...sure enought there she was on her back with a shopping cart on her chest...  huge lump on her head and Dr confirmed concussion that lesson actually could have killed her and it was JUST a shopping cart and with me standing there to boot.

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot

[steve863]

Tell that to any parent letting their kid shoot a bb gun unsupervised. Next thing you know, they are a serial killer, right?

 

 

I love it how you are trying to justify all this.  NO, the kid probably won't become a serial killer, and YES, some kids who are raised by screwed up parents do make it in life.  But if you look at those people who do end up having a screwed up life.  A very high percentage of them are products of SCREWED up parenting.  It don't matter if you are rich or poor either.  You can be a SCREWED up parent in either case.  Of course, just like many alcoholics and drug addicts, most parents will never be able to admit or even realize that they are SCREWED up. In their minds they know it all and how dare someone tell them that they are doing things wrong.  This is exactly the attitude that we are seeing in this thread.  Have a nice day.

[jjb4900]

and the moral of this story?....stay off of Facebook.

[JoeHunter]

and you can probably marry a first cousin in Alabama....what's you're point?

 

Nice. 

[JoeHunter]

I know this will get ripped apart, but here it goes anyway, forget about what you did as a kid and what you do as an adult for a few minutes......teaching your child how to illegally take a deer by going beyond just allowing him to pull the trigger (probably had a good lesson on how to lie thrown in there as well), is probably setting him up for a lifetime of more of the same, and is much different then allowing a child to target shoot with a BB gun unsupervised, if the parent feels they are ready to do it,.....it's more of setting an example for our children then anything else, kids watch adults and usually follow the path they were led down.

I agree. In fact, I take my kids to Pennsylvania and tell them this is where we can legally do what is right as opposed to not being able to do what is right in NYS because it's illegal.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

personally I would never let a kid 10-14 out shooting even a pellet or BB gun unsupervised....My kids were raised around guns and bows and they were taught a very healthy respect for them...every weapon is potentially loaded and chambered always...every weapon is potentially blocked...and they were shown pictures many times of what it looks like when someone forgets that...but I would never let them out wondering around to shoot at what ever or even targets...for when counting shots two ears and two eyes are safer than one as far as arrows...well they saw what happens if your equipement fails being out shooting stumps alone  when an arrow decides to rip through your wrist isn't a risk I was willing to take.

but the 10-11 even supervised is not kosher...no?

[grampy]

First I'll get this out of the way,I have broken laws in my lifetime! I don't think too many people can say otherwise. But,when it comes to being the mentor for teaching my grandsons about hunting,I cannot and will not knowingly break any laws while afield with them. I strive to be the best example I can be to give them a foundation to build on. My hope is that this foundation will be passed to their sons and and grandsons. Will they break laws in their lifetime? I'm sure they will as I have done. But they will know good hunting ethics,what is legal and not legal,to begin their hunting careers. What they do with that the rest of their lives is up to them,but at least they will have been given a good foundation to start with. 

 

 

[JoeHunter]

First I'll get this out of the way,I have broken laws in my lifetime! I don't think too many people can say otherwise. But,when it comes to being the mentor for teaching my grandsons about hunting,I cannot and will not knowingly break any laws while afield with them. I strive to be the best example I can be to give them a foundation to build on. My hope is that this foundation will be passed to their sons and and grandsons. Will they break laws in their lifetime? I'm sure they will as I have done. But they will know good hunting ethics,what is legal and not legal,to begin their hunting careers. What they do with that the rest of their lives is up to them,but at least they will have been given a good foundation to start with. 

I agree and spend alot of time in Pennsylavnia in order to accomplish this

[growalot]

Well Culver according to the law which in this case is all over the place if you read it all...as I said before knowing this  I had my kids handling weapons and shooting at targets SUPERVISED...

 

He is talking not supurvised with guns...that is not OK be it legal or not at a young age...and sorry as much as this society wants our kids to think as adults at the ripe old age or say 8-11+, they just can't...and I'll give you a real life example why....the number of preteen kids having sex and now getting pregnant..becuase young girls (fact) are now getting their menstrual cycles earlier in life...most talked about issue besides drugs kids are schooled on ...professionally and at home. Unsupervised kids on many issues either think they know better or feel infallible that is another fact.

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well Culver according to the law which in this case is all over the place if you read it all...as I said before knowing this  I had my kids handling weapons and shooting at targets SUPERVISED...

 

He is talking not supurvised with guns...that not OK be it legal or not at a young age...and sorry as much as this society wants our kids to think as adults at the ripe old age or say 8-11+, they just can't...and I'll give you a real life example why....the number of preteen kids having sex and now getting pregnant..becuase young girls (fact) are now getting their menstrual cycles earlier in life...most talked about issue besides drugs kids are schooled on ...professionally and at home. Unsupervised kids on many issues either think they know better or feel infallible that is another fact.

Supervised must be 12. That was the one I meant. Personally they can kiss my left butt cheek on that one.

[steve863]

What would happen if the kid had an accident with the bb gun or .22 that you gave him?  Be it inflicting injury to himself or to someone else or someones property??  In these lawsuit happy days I don't think it would be pretty.  You may then end up getting all your guns confiscated for thinking that your kid is responsible enough to handle guns on his own.  Would you go against your kid and say that he took the guns without permission to save your own butts?

 

 

 

[growalot]

Yet in the DEC regs..... it states while TAKING,not after getting the license, the course, 11 with parental sign off. Which actually as the law is written not legal....Regardless supervision should always be there and during hunting as well until at least 16. Now as far as the law is concerned...I find it ridiculous to say a parent can't supervise their child at a target range. ..but then go and look up where a, what 8 yr old?, shot their well seasoned professional instuctor at a range....If one were to look at the # of kids handling guns to the # of kids behind the wheel of 3ton or what ever vehicals. Then write up the statistical #'s on  injuries or possible injury and death that could occur...Well bunch of laws should change....say 8 and up supervised shooting and 18 and up for driving...but the laws are written and should be taught to be followed. Don't like them then try to change them...don't teach the next generation to break them!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Grow. I think that was a full auto weapon that kid had with no prior Experience.

Steve. As far as liability I wasn't worried about it. I taught her as I was taught. The fist time shooting isn't a semi 06 from a standing position. There was handling exercises while she just went with me. Then 22 from a bench. Then prone. Then kneeling then standing. After thousands of 22 rounds we moved up calibers and then onto pistols.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I know, but assumed we were talking about unsupervised kids.........and this really isn't about stop signs or kids shooting BB guns anyway.

 

Actually, if you stop cherry picking words out of comments, the stop sign and bb gun references are 100% valid in the discussion.

[phade]

Grow. I think that was a full auto weapon that kid had with no prior Experience.

Steve. As far as liability I wasn't worried about it. I taught her as I was taught. The fist time shooting isn't a semi 06 from a standing position. There was handling exercises while she just went with me. Then 22 from a bench. Then prone. Then kneeling then standing. After thousands of 22 rounds we moved up calibers and then onto pistols.

 

You vile criminal you. I sentence you to death! Off with your head.

[growalot]

 

Grow. I think that was a full auto weapon that kid had with no prior Experience.

 

Yes and does that not drive home the point when it was a seasoned fire arms instructor. Parents that could not look at a child that age ...BTW ever look at an 8 yr. olds arms and shoulders?, and see the inherent danger. Sure probably done it hundreds of times...but how ever it happened it only took once, perhaps one time the "student" didn't listen or thought they knew it all after one talk...

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot