Tankless Water Heaters

[virgil]

I'm in the process of having electric service installed at my hunting camp.  I'm planning to install a tankless water heater.  The unit I'm looking at is rated for cold locations.  But, it draws a lot of power- requires three 40 amp double pole breakers.  I was originally planning to install 100 amp service.  But, this unit would require 150 or 200. 

Anybody use a tankless heater and have similar experience?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wow that seems like a lot. Electric is hard for instantaneous  Is it an option to go with a propane unit and it might reduce the cost of your service requirements? a 100# tank or two might give plenty between fills.

 

a 100# tank would give you about 3,000,000 BTU's  What is you heater rated for?

[wildcat junkie]

I'm in the process of having electric service installed at my hunting camp. I'm planning to install a tankless water heater. The unit I'm looking at is rated for cold locations. But, it draws a lot of power- requires three 40 amp double pole breakers. I was originally planning to install 100 amp service. But, this unit would require 150 or 200.

Anybody use a tankless heater and have similar experience?

Any electric water heater (tank or tankless) is going to either have slow recovery/output or use a lot of power. The one you are considering will suck over 10000 watts.

If you will have have propane or fuel oil for cooking/heat, I would suggest that you get an on-demand propane or oil fired water heater. They are much more efficient than electric.

Edited March 30, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[moog5050]

The tank-less heaters are instantaneous, no recovery required. Apparently they use a lot of electricity but are also only used when you need the hot water.

[wildcat junkie]

The tank-less heaters are instantaneous, no recovery required. Apparently they use a lot of electricity but are also only used when you need the hot water.

I cited slow recovery as well as output. Tank type electric heaters have slow recovery and on-demand electric heaters will have slow output unless they are using huge amounts of electricity.

Flame type on demand heaters, either propane or oil fired are much more effecient at heat transfer.

OP needs to check GPM output & energy consumption to compare the cost vs benefit.

Edited March 30, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[virgil]

It does draw a lot of power- 100amps.  But, it's going to get very limited use.  So, I'm not really worried about the electric bill.  I'd rather not use a gas tank.  The tankless units seem pretty easy to install. 

[virgil]

The spec sheet says the flow rate is 4gpm at 45 degree rise.  The literature says the unit is rated for whole house use in northern US and Canada.

 

Efficiency is really not a great concern for me in this case because of how little it will be needed.  I just want to know that we can have a hot shower in the winter, if necessary.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The spec sheet says the flow rate is 4gpm at 45 degree rise.  The literature says the unit is rated for whole house use in northern US and Canada.

 

Efficiency is really not a great concern for me in this case because of how little it will be needed.  I just want to know that we can have a hot shower in the winter, if necessary.

Does it give you the maximum temp rise?

[virgil]

It says: Max Temp 140.  Mine Temp 80.  Min Activation Rate .25gpm.

Edited March 30, 2015 by virgil

[dbHunterNY]

it'll take adjusting but it'll work for your camp assuming you have power and there's not an outage.  be sure to wrap the pipes well.  assuming you have a wood stove for heat and even if the pipe is radiating heat into your conditioned space, wood is free and elec isn't.  the cost is all in use and initial install as you're feeding it with possibly 1/0 AWG conductors depending on if your talking 100 full load amps or 100 amp circuit breaker.  homemade jobs using solar to heat/temper the water before it gets to your heater is good too.  depends on the rate of return though.
 

also unless you're paying for a long secondary portion of the service getting to the camp, 200A service is the way to go especially if you're using instantaneous water heating.  chest freezers and other stuff start to become nice add-ons later on.  heck maybe enough of you decide to split a walk-in cooler.  not sure what kind of "camp" this is. 

 

[wildcat junkie]

The spec sheet says the flow rate is 4gpm at 45 degree rise. The literature says the unit is rated for whole house use in northern US and Canada.

Efficiency is really not a great concern for me in this case because of how little it will be needed. I just want to know that we can have a hot shower in the winter, if necessary.

Well water should average about 56°F, so your shower will only be about 100°F @ maximum flow.

[virgil]

Wildcat- the 45 degree rise was not the unit's max.  That was just showing the flow rate of 4gpm at that temp rise.

 

I found more information.  The spec sheet says that you can expect 105degree output at 2.6gpm with water incoming at 42degrees.

 

I don't know what the well temp will be in my area in the winter.  But, if it's as cold as 42degrees, it seems that I should be able to expect a 105degree shower at 2.6gpm.  If you're right about the temp being in the fifties, I should be able to have a pretty comfortable shower- at least I hope.

 

[thphm]

Since we do not have NG on this side of the hill , we have 3 choices Elec. Bottles gas or wood.In my single wide I had bottled gas for heat, cooking and hot water, The cost was too much compared to the  the elec. which I now have in my new house,we were getting ripped  off by the suppliers of the bottled gas.The only advantage of the bottled gas is that you could cook and have some heat from the stove when the power went out.

Heat that came with the house is forced hot air ( Kero ) fuel. It is quick to heat up but does not last that long.It seems to cool down fast.

I did have radiant heat installed in the house both floors ( nice consistant  heat ) hooked up to a wood boiler outside, It is also hooked up to my Hot Water Heater , which is a normal Elec. hot water heater with another heating coil hooked up to it ( nice instant heat) and no elec. being used.A neighbor has a wood burning stove with a water jacket and they are happy with it.

If you have a good supply of wood that might be a way to go.

[beachpeaz]

I am in the RV Distribution business and I JUST did this for a friend of mine.  Look at an RV tankless system and use a propane bottle.  For a cabin application it woud be perfect.  I can't fathom you would use that much hot water in a cabin.  Your not talking a 10 bedroom lodge i presume.   The recovery on them is just fine for normal use.  Agaiin, its a cabin, not like you will be running laundry, dishes and have 3 showers going.

 

[Merlot]

It does draw a lot of power- 100amps.  But, it's going to get very limited use.  So, I'm not really worried about the electric bill.  I'd rather not use a gas tank.  The tankless units seem pretty easy to install. 

May want to consider 200 amp service. Hate to see you get caught short on service down the road.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

    Assuming space is not the issue, I would install a smaller tanked one. For $270-$350, most provide 40-50 gallons of hot water in the first hour anyway. You would just have to turn on/off and drain every trip though.

   Beachpeaz idea sounds pretty sweet too.

[virgil]

Pretty sure I'm gonna go with the 200 amp service and the electric tankless. I prefer not to have to deal with draining a tank every time and would rather not have a gas tank either. I know that the electric is less efficient. But, I think it'll be worth it.

Does anyone know what the average temperature of well water might be in the winter?

[Hunter1]

My well stays 42 to 48 year round

[wheelieman]

You still have to test the water for hardness and other minerals, The passages through the heat exchanger are small and clog easy, If you dont test you could ruin your heater in a year or two, You still would have to drain the system and winterize it when you wont be there it still holds enough water to do severe damage when not in use, If the water is over 5 grains hard the manufacturer might( probably) will require you treat the water and prefilter before it goes through the unit, In the end depending on the water quality it might be cheaper to look in to other avenues too heat your water, There are several small 115v heaters that are point of use that might be a better option, The recovery rates are pretty decent and you should be able to shower in the middle of winter without to much problem, THe company i work for sells several different varieties of instant water heaters and the amount of declined warranty claims due to mineral build up is amazing, Its just food for thought,

[dbHunterNY]

Just put a whole house in line filter in line with it and a valve in front of that. You don't want it to freeze and crack. Same with the heater. But you could then drain it through the filter system. Just un screw the filter can and then open the filter valve on top with a bucket under it.