Shorten the NY Gun Season?

[erussell]

[quote author=letinmfly link=topic=2896.msg34324#msg34324 date=1293041748

  Secondly make it that only one buck can be harvested during a given calendar year.  For those that hunt with bow, gun and ML.  Allow the taking of one antlerless deer in each of the other two seasons in which the buck is not harvested.  This way a hunter can legally harvest three deer in one year. 

Sounds good on paper, but how many guys do you know that shoot 2 bucks a yr. I don't think it would really help anything and I can't hold it against someone if there luckier than me and kill 2 bucks in one hunting season. More power to them.

[phade]

I always thought the same things, but the light isn't in the facts.

Only about 5k hunters successfully tag an archery/mz buck and a reg season buck (two bucks a season). It's a deceptively small number. The benefit in my interpretation (and I'm guilty of this practice in the past, and once in a while to this day), is that with two tags, multiple season hunters are more likely to shoot a smaller buck, then "hold out" for something big.

With OBR, hunters will become much more "choosey" in a sense. There are many hunters who tag that small buck, then never see the "big one" to shoot later on. I'm not complaining about it, but I can see both sides of the fence.

Now, I'm not saying that OBR is high on my list of things to do...I much rather prefer they moved regular season start date to the Monday after T-day (unlikely), and the shortening of the season (very unlikely) before OBR, and WAYYYYY before AR (I think it's not worthwhile). I don't know why NY SZ is when it is...I've never seen the logic behind it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My thoughts are to get rid of rifle during the rut #1.  Then place an AR on the state.  But,  for those who are worried about killing deer.  You have the option to use your tag on a doe.  That would make your so called buck tag good for ( a buck that meets the requirments or a doe)

how do you regulate the doe take if the tags are good across the state? It would seem to me the guys in areas like region 3 that are always voicing concern about the huge pressure down there would really see a drop in the herd size if the permits were not regulated to a specific number

[CB]

  I'm in favor of shortening gun & bow by one week each and reducing the buck tags to only one per year.  I'm not in favor of antler restrictions.  Who is to say what is a trophy to a first time hunter, an out of state hunter with very limited time, or a senior hunter?  I ran into that problem down in PA which is why a camp of 8-10 guys who hunted for four days every year stopped going.  We added those 4 days spent out of state to extra days in the woods in NY.  I'm also in favor of reducing or eliminating nuisance permits in hunting areas.  There is one farm near me that will not allow hunting but every year he gets 30+ nusiance permits and lets one guy come in.  He shot 27 deer this year on the permits.  That in my opinion is ridiculous.  Open the land up to hunting or suffer the crop damage.  I'm sure hunters would consider a small 'trespass fee' like paid out west or give the land owner a tax break for allowing hunting.

CB

[wztirem]

I doubt a lot of you guys who get a dmp maybe every three of four years  like we do in my area would be so willing to let every small buck walk.  If you had one tag for the season, you would not be so selective.  There have been tons of posts of people complaining they arent seeing deer and havent filled two or three tags.  I pay 98 dollars a year to hunt. Tell me I will have less tags and less time, I just may keep my hundred for me.  I am sure a lot of people will feel the same.  And the bottom line is in this state money makes the world go round.  They are not going to shorten seasons or do anything that will jeopardize selling licenses. They are adding new iplements to entice more to hunt.

Good Point!

[Hartwick]

The main problem is there is not as much deer seen today as in the past. I don't think it has anything to do with the seasons length it has to do with land that has been excluded from hunting. In the area where I hunt 2500 acres was donated to a college and has become off limits to all hunting. There must be hundreds of areas all over the state like this. The deer are not bothered there, they have food and water so they stay there. Visit one of these places during the season you will see what I am talking about. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

well that was a very soft underhand pitch I threw you...I was hoping you could hit that one out of the park...lol

I figured you were hanging one out there for me hahaha

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ahhhhh, and thats where the x-bow comes into play. 

Jee whiz, it seems like the x-bow is the solution to everything for you?  I could care less if they make the x-bows legal during bow season, gun season or any other season, but to think any gun hunter would be happy giving up a week or two of their gun season for a bloody x-bow is the silliest thing I ever heard!  Plus they would have to spend another $500-$1000 for the darned contraption just to hunt those weeks they lost from their gun season.  Just how would this possibly make any gun hunter happy???  Will NEVER happen in NYS!

You dont read or comprehend things very well all the time steve. I have never said it was the complete solution, but once again you cherry pick one comment and go off on your tangent.

BTW, I have never, ever said I dont like gun hunters. I started out gun hunting and only got into bow hunting a handful of years ago. I have never hunted with a x-bow and unless they change the seasons up similarly to how I have mentioned, it will be a long time before I do. The reasons why I say the gun season should be shortened is because I dont have my blinders on, and can see what would make for better quality hunting for everyone. Dont try and misconstrue that to mean bigger antlers either, there are plenty of bucks in NY with big racks now, and I have my share of encounters with them every year. Ill never understand people that dont want things to get better even when hunter numbers drop every year.

[nyantler]

The funny par tof all this is noone makes these suggestions to make hunting better for everyone.  They armade to make hunting better for the person starting the post.  If it was thought of more as universally making hunting better, they may be more thought out.

That is exatly right! Personal hunting experience is what you make it.. the overall hunting experience is something some guys lose site of...

[wztirem]

I dont think it will happen either.The thing i look at is other states that have shorter seasons with different weapons have a better deer herd and alot of huge bucks.Some states will not have the gun season during the rut,bow only.I think thats a great idea as long there is a doe season involved somewhere also.I am content with the way things are now and i think most are.No matter what happens if anything there is always going to be some against change.If you look at some of the big bucks that were shot this year it shows that ny can make some good deer and that might be that there is more people doing their own qdm and lettin the little guys walk more often.

Well, I've got some news for you.  NYS could care less how big the antlers on the bucks head are when they are gunned down by hunters.  The state needs deer shot and the age and antler size doesn't make a difference to them.  Game management is deer population control.  This antler stuff is only a concern to hunters who want them.  The state could care less about them.

What you say above is clearly what the DEC is mandated to do The DEC will enact whatever measures they deem necessary to control deer populations,preserve habitat and protect the public.

[nyantler]

I have news for you Steve... the DEC has already started a move towards AR in portions of the rest of the State.. don't be surprised if they care a little more than you think.. the legislators may have to be persuaded to change some of the laws because they are afraid of losing revenues, but the DEC is made up of guys who also hunt and have a grip on whats going on. I'm not saying a qdm like program is coming or isn't, but with the big push by many hunters for better deer management I wouldn't be surprised if NY adopts something similar to other states... AR and all.

[wztirem]

Sounds like a Christmas wish! :-*

[Doc]

I think I would be very surprised if the DEC would back any arbitrary, broad-brush application of AR across the state. Of course, I have been surprised before .... lol.

I say that based on comments published in the media by Jeremy Hurst on the subject of AR (more than once). The wording just didn't sound like it was anything that they were interested in pursuing. The fact is that I haven't seen anything that would make me believe they are interested in expanding AR even in selected WMUs. I really don't think they are buying into it. At least that's what they are saying publicly.

Doc

[nyantler]

I don't know where you read that Doc.. but i talked to Jeremy personally and got the complete opposite from him. The huge concern for him was implementing a good management plan while maintaining conservation revenues... the DEC has to be conserned about balancing both...

Many said crossbows would never be allowed in NY.. but here they are! By the way Jeremy had a lot to do with getting that passed as well.

[First-light]

I don't have the numbers but what type of role does the out-of-state hunter play into the NY season. What I mean is how many OOS hunters come to NY to hunt?

I've posted this before but my neighbor has 11 relatives that come from down south, I know from asking them about half would jump ship if AR's were put in place.

Lost revenue and less guys in the woods pushing deer but until I know the numbers I don't have an accurate # of OOS hunters. By the wat these guys are only in the first two weeks of season at best. So a shorter season would not affect them. I think the season is pretty good the way it is but I'm always willing to hear an argument and if need be implement change.

[bubba]

with the cost of a non resident license, and the supposed devastation of the herd, why would non residents pay that price. I doubt they have a serious impact.

[Doc]

I don't know where you read that Doc.. but i talked to Jeremy personally and got the complete opposite from him. The huge concern for him was implementing a good management plan while maintaining conservation revenues... the DEC has to be conserned about balancing both...

New York Outdoor News ...... and I think the quote was pretty close to: We see no biological need to pursue AR. I'm sure many here have seen the quote as it has been referred to by other members.

[wztirem]

I don't know where you read that Doc.. but i talked to Jeremy personally and got the complete opposite from him. The huge concern for him was implementing a good management plan while maintaining conservation revenues... the DEC has to be conserned about balancing both...

New York Outdoor News ...... and I think the quote was pretty close to: We see no biological need to pursue AR. I'm sure many here have seen the quote as it has been referred to by other members.

As far as my conversation with the future governor regarding the same subject; no one would believe me anyway! :-\

[nyantler]

I believe the direct quote was "There is no biological urgency to implement a mandatory antler restriction program in the proposed deer management units, and hunters who wish to adopt an antler restriction policy or practice may already do so on a voluntary basis." He was talking just about particular WMU's.. and didn't say anything about no biological need ever. That is not his opinion on AR in general just those particular wmu's. Also if you read the rest of the statement... which was in reference to developing AR in 8 other units of NY... the most important reason it wasn't adopted is because 20% of the hunters in that area were against it.. And 20% was the number that the DEC decided would keep them from adopting AR in those units... even though 69% of the hunters were for it in those units... you have to read the whole report!

[nyantler]

(DEC earlier this year indicated it would expand antler restriction regulations only if hunter sentiment was strongly - at least two-thirds - in favor of such a move. Even with strong support, if more than 20 percent of the hunting community was strongly opposed to the move, DEC officials said an antler restriction plan would be scrapped.

Hurst said the survey results were "really contradictory," indicating strong feelings on both sides of the issue.

Support for antler restrictions was strongest (69.8 percent) in WMUs 3A and 4X. But that unit also saw 20.3 percent of hunters "strongly opposed" to the regulations.)

Some how Jeremy thought these results were contradictory? I'm sure the feelings were strong on both sides but over 3 times stronger in in support.

The only thing contradictory is that they didn't go ahead with the expansion with the 2/3 support, which they had. But instead sided with the 20% opposition...

[nyantler]

And lastly from the DEC's written assessment of the planned AR extention...

"The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) supports voluntary antler restriction programs but does not see a critical biological need or compelling management advantage to mandate antler restrictions. However, DEC recognizes that antler restrictions can be part of a viable deer management program when hunter support for such restrictions is widespread."

Long story short.. as soon as enough hunters decide they want it.. it will be adopted!

[Doc]

Actually, he is saying that AR can be part of management, but falls far short of saying that there is really any value in doing so. In fact, to the contrary, he doesn't see any "need" or "advantage" to AR as anything but a voluntary activity. That is far from DEC support of AR as I see it.

This all sounds like my original statement: "The wording just didn't sound like it was anything that they were interested in pursuing". And I think Hurst is being quite plain about that. Of course, time will tell, but most of what I have been seeing is that the DEC is not in the AR corner and if it is expanded, it will have to be legislatively forced over their best judgement.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Um, why is AR in this thread too?  :

[nyantler]

Not sure how you twisted that around like you just did... ..Its says that they agree it can be a part of a viable management plan but at the moment they see no biological urgency or compelling management advantage... i do agree it is not something they are interested in pursuing at the moment, thats obvious seeing how they sided with 20% of the hunters instead of the majority... 20% must have meant a lot of revenue loss to them... But they left the door wide open for extention of the program with increased hunter interest. The statement also says flat out that the DEC supports voluntary AR.. and remember the whole report was only based on extending AR to 8 wmu's and the specific statements by jeremy were pertaining to those wmu's

[nyantler]

LOL.. seems like the argument for everything around here if someone doesn't like the idea is to blame it on the hunters in favor of AR ... and how the trophy hunters that want more and bigger bucks are the reason everything is so bad...   I am just pointing out how a certain individual keeps twisting the facts  ;D  By the wy  .. Merry Christmas!!