Shorten the NY Gun Season?

[Doewhacker]

if the goal is to improve the herd and reduce pressure introducing xbows or any other implement won't solve the problem

Look at what Illinois does - they spread the season out with breaks in between the season - starts with bow, then there are two guns seasons with a break in between the gun seasons, then another break and then muzzelloader, then another break and a late bow season - i went out there for the late bow (1st week of january) and saw tons of deer because they weren't spooked with continous pressure

A segmented season sounds ok in theory, as long as every one has ample time to go with their weapon of choice of course.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

if the goal is to improve the herd and reduce pressure introducing xbows or any other implement won't solve the problem

Look at what Illinois does - they spread the season out with breaks in between the season - starts with bow, then there are two guns seasons with a break in between the gun seasons, then another break and then muzzelloader, then another break and a late bow season - i went out there for the late bow (1st week of january) and saw tons of deer because they weren't spooked with continous pressure

i wouldn't have a problem with that either. It, in fact would allow me breaks to get my honey do lists done without waiting until the end of the season...or better yet get a little duck hunting in

[steve863]

Ahhhhh, and thats where the x-bow comes into play. 

Jee whiz, it seems like the x-bow is the solution to everything for you?  I could care less if they make the x-bows legal during bow season, gun season or any other season, but to think any gun hunter would be happy giving up a week or two of their gun season for a bloody x-bow is the silliest thing I ever heard!  Plus they would have to spend another $500-$1000 for the darned contraption just to hunt those weeks they lost from their gun season.  Just how would this possibly make any gun hunter happy???  Will NEVER happen in NYS!

You dont read or comprehend things very well all the time steve. I have never said it was the complete solution, but once again you cherry pick one comment and go off on your tangent.

BTW, I have never, ever said I dont like gun hunters. I started out gun hunting and only got into bow hunting a handful of years ago. I have never hunted with a x-bow and unless they change the seasons up similarly to how I have mentioned, it will be a long time before I do. The reasons why I say the gun season should be shortened is because I dont have my blinders on, and can see what would make for better quality hunting for everyone. Dont try and misconstrue that to mean bigger antlers either, there are plenty of bucks in NY with big racks now, and I have my share of encounters with them every year. Ill never understand people that dont want things to get better even when hunter numbers drop every year.

So since I don't comprehend things well, are you also trying to tell us that hunter numbers in NYS are dropping because of the poor hunting we have in NYS??  So a shorter season and possibly better hunting will bring hunters back while the long season and the lousy hunting we currently have is making hunters hang it up??  I myself think hunters would prefer to have a longer time frame to hunt over a shorter frame where they have NO choice but put all their hunting time in a short two week time frame.  Many who don't like gun hunting think it sounds like Vietnam now on opening day, I could imagine things being doubly worse if gun hunters knew they had less time available to them.  If gun hunters are to lose two weeks of their season, I would hope that bow hunters get to lose three at the same time.  What's fair is fair.  One group shouldn't get the shaft while the other doesn't.

Look steve, the whole key to shortening the gun season and improving the overall hunting is compromise. Thats what the crossbow represents and becomes, less range and a slight expense, but less pressure on the deer and a longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow.

As far as your comprehension skills go, I have said at least once (if not more times) in this thread that shortening the season or crossbows were not the only things that need be done to make a big improvement in the hunting in NY. And yes, I do believe that PART (dont misconstrue it as "all" or "the only") of the reason why the numbers are dropping off has to do with the lack of quality in the hunting in many parts of the state. Whether you feel the same way or not, many people dont want to sit and freeze after spending a bunch of money and see no deer because they are all in hiding after the intense pressure of having lead hurled at them for weeks on end. Not everyone has a lightly hunted chunk of land to go to like some of us do.

There you go again with the crossbows!  "Longer overall season for the gun hunter that picks up the crossbow".  The crossbow in my opinion has ZERO significance in this conversation about a shortened gun season.  Let us not even touch upon the fact that they have never been allowed in NYS and next year only allowed in gun season.  We are NO where near discussing them as any sort of alternative to gun hunting.  I have yet to hear a dedicated gun hunter say that they could ever be considered a good alternative.

Uh oh, there goes your comprehension skills again. 

Yeah right, maybe it's more like you don't have a clue to what you're talking about!! If you baffle enough people with BS, some are sure to believe you.  LOL

[Doewhacker]

i wouldn't have a problem with that either. It, in fact would allow me breaks to get my honey do lists done without waiting until the end of the season...or better yet get a little duck hunting in

Thats what I was thinking too Culver, some times we all need a break from the season and this would force us to do that. Maybe the after the season list wouldn't be so long that way...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i wouldn't have a problem with that either. It, in fact would allow me breaks to get my honey do lists done without waiting until the end of the season...or better yet get a little duck hunting in

Thats what I was thinking too Culver, some times we all need a break from the season and this would force us to do that. Maybe the after the season list wouldn't be so long that way...

I am sure it would make a difference in the deer patterns as well. It seems like the areas I hunt don't get very much pressure at all during the late ML. The deer are moving better during shooting hours and field activity really picks up with  just a week break in the pressure.

[Doc]

It seems that some of you have not figured out that the DEC only takes one of the seasons seriously when it comes to population control. There is only one weapon that can consistantly cut populations when they deem it necessary to do so, or that can build populations through cuts in antlerless permits when that action is deemed necessary. Other than unique urban situations (where there is no choice) population control is not all that effective with bows, or muzzleloaders, or crossbows. Those seasons are niche or novelty seasons that the DEC does not view as serious controls for populations. The real management tool is the antlerless permit in the hands of the gunner. I honestly don't believe that the DEC will ever entertain cuts in the gun season (or should they). The idea that crossbows will ever even begin to replace the productivity lost by cutting gun season length is simply not being anywhere near realistic. Their contribution will be basically insignificant.

I'm sure we all have many ideas for shredding the NYS season structure, but it all further convinces me that even though crippled and financially maimed, I am oh so glad that we still have professionals at the helm making those kinds of decisions.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc,

Would you see a negative to a broken up season that allows a break to the woods and the deer? Not an overall that shortens any season

[Doc]

I have a hard time trying to predict what all would be positives or negatives in some of these schemes. It's not my profession. What I can say is that I don't have any serious arguments with what is in place now. That doesn't mean that everything is perfect. That only means that from a laymans point of view, I have no facts to show that what is in place is wrong.

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree that there doesn't seem to be any "proof" that anything is wrong with the current system. I would have to say that just because something can't be proven wrong or not done correctly doensn't seem to be a reason to at least entertain alternatives that MAY improve on a good thing. If it wasn't in our nature to do that ...we would still be driving aroung a model T..

I am never for placing more limits on our sport or the hunters themselves. I have been consistently opposed to the AR theme. I can see a benefit of a segmented season to the hunters as long as it doesn't decrease there available time in the field.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

What is wrong is when you have a thread on here that says the late second and the last week of gun nobody is seein deer.Have a split season and you will see deer just like we did during late muzzle.

[bubba]

how was it split? didnt one stop one day and the other started the next? 

[Doc]

I have never been one to change just for the sake of changing, so I guess I like to have some reason to consider blowing up the hunting seasons. I haven't really heard one yet that I truly believe in. But I will admit that it is fun to listen to what others think.

As far as the split season is concerned, I'm not really sure what that is supposed to accomplish.

[First-light]

If you want me to agree to AR's I won't.

If you want me to agree to a longer bow season (Oct 1st ) OK.

If you want me to agree to let xbows into the deer seasons OK. 1st two weeks of bow (Oct1-15) and all of gun season and Muzzleloader season.

If you want me to agree to shorten the gun season OK. 3 week season followed by two weeks of Muzzleloader and xbow.

I feel the seasons are just about right, but there needs to be some type of give and take with the xbow. Giving the bow hunters and extra 2 weeks and letting in xbows for the 1st two weeks would do it for me. The biggest problem I see is losing the week for the gun hunters. For me it's not a big deal, break out the smokepole.

I don't think this will lesson the stress on the deer, the last two weeks of season may be real nice way to end the year.

[burmjohn]

OK, why don't you tell us why I am wrong?? The state could give a damn about antlers.  Antlers are the obsession of hunters and not the DEC.  The state wants and hopes that 200,000 plus deer get taken each year and they could care less about what the antlers of the bucks look like.  Please prove to us that they really care about them?  Good luck in your search.

The state does care. There would not be any restrictions at all if your failed logic was true. Ask the DEC yourself.  I'm not going to do research for you.

[skyzmine]

OK, why don't you tell us why I am wrong?? The state could give a damn about antlers.  Antlers are the obsession of hunters and not the DEC.  The state wants and hopes that 200,000 plus deer get taken each year and they could care less about what the antlers of the bucks look like.  Please prove to us that they really care about them?  Good luck in your search.

1 reg season Buck tag and 4 reg season DMP's per hunter - but i see your point. you can take button buck's and tag it with a DMP

But, i'm not in for any type AR, I am ok to shorten the gun season as long as they extend bow season to compensate for it .. You dont hear many bow related accidents ..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 either sex tag for each weapon and 1 dmp per hunter!!!

[skyzmine]

1 either sex tag for each weapon and 1 dmp per hunter!!!

????  is that what you got or want  ????

SUPER SPORTSMAN    just the deer tags we get

1 buck for bow, 1 buck for reg gun, 4 DMP's for reg gun 1 either sex for ML

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 weeks of bow with either sex tag,2 weeks of gun with either sex tag,

2 weeks muzzle with either sex tag and 1 dmp that can be used with any of the 3 weapons!

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

So here we go again. Change a season to benefit YOU. In the NZ, we do not see these pressure on deer YOU SZ hunters talk about. I see deer from start to finish. And they are not spooky.

[bubba]

and in the nz we do not get 4 dmp. More like a dmp every four years. If you had less tags to fill, maybe you would not feel the pressure to see so many deer to fill so many tags. Most years, I have a buck tag and 2 bow ml tags.  I see deer from opening day until closing day.  This year, I had a dmp filled it and my buck tag,  That was a godo year for me. I passed a doe early ml and a nice buck late ml.  The problem isnt that you arent seeing deer, you arent seeing enough deer to fill the arms length of tags you have.  An unused tag is not a sign of weakness or poor hunting. I could have easily filled all 4 tags to include an early ml and a late ml deer.  My question is why do I need to. Look I know us NZ guys are the minority here, and pretty much get blown off when we type anything, because we do not understand deer hunting. I can live with that. I will still post.  But I will sure say I am glad that as a NZ guy, I can take the season we have and go with it. If it is good then I am glad.  if it is bad I am still glad.  I was out, I was with friends. I saw some deer. I got away from the huste and bustle of my job for a few days.  That is what hunting is about. Not how many deer tags do you have. How dare you want to use your implement in my season, and I want big bucks, so you cant shoot a small one and if I do not see at least 7 deer a day, the population is gone, and we need to change it all so I do see 7 deer a day.  You guys stress more over deer season, than most do over work. Well I may be in the minority, but I am glad I can go out in the woods and feel safe without glowing.  I am gald I can go out and see deer, and harvest what I choose, not what is chosen for me, and that I have good friends to share the experience with.  If any of you guys want to experience deer hunting the way it is supposed to be, get a hold of me, we will make arrangemsnts for you to come up and see how relaxing and enjoyable it can be rather than how stressed and competitive it can be.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

WELL SAID MR.BUBBA!!

[First-light]

Stress during deer hunting, you want to see stress, put the 1 buck rule in per season. Then you will see stress!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

OK, why don't you tell us why I am wrong?? The state could give a damn about antlers.  Antlers are the obsession of hunters and not the DEC.  The state wants and hopes that 200,000 plus deer get taken each year and they could care less about what the antlers of the bucks look like.  Please prove to us that they really care about them?  Good luck in your search.

The state does care. There would not be any restrictions at all if your failed logic was true. Ask the DEC yourself.  I'm not going to do research for you.

the article and comments directly from DEC states they see no biologic benefit of AR. They also state it IS a social benefit. Doesn't sound to me like they have any desire in the arena of horns....mostly herd health...wich they say we have.....and population control....which they say they are at the level they want..Their words...not mine

[skyzmine]

and in the nz we do not get 4 dmp. More like a dmp every four years. If you had less tags to fill, maybe you would not feel the pressure to see so many deer to fill so many tags. Most years, I have a buck tag and 2 bow ml tags.  I see deer from opening day until closing day.  This year, I had a dmp filled it and my buck tag,  That was a godo year for me. I passed a doe early ml and a nice buck late ml.  The problem isnt that you arent seeing deer, you arent seeing enough deer to fill the arms length of tags you have.  An unused tag is not a sign of weakness or poor hunting. I could have easily filled all 4 tags to include an early ml and a late ml deer.  My question is why do I need to. Look I know us NZ guys are the minority here, and pretty much get blown off when we type anything, because we do not understand deer hunting. I can live with that. I will still post.  But I will sure say I am glad that as a NZ guy, I can take the season we have and go with it. If it is good then I am glad.  if it is bad I am still glad.  I was out, I was with friends. I saw some deer. I got away from the huste and bustle of my job for a few days.  That is what hunting is about. Not how many deer tags do you have. How dare you want to use your implement in my season, and I want big bucks, so you cant shoot a small one and if I do not see at least 7 deer a day, the population is gone, and we need to change it all so I do see 7 deer a day.  You guys stress more over deer season, than most do over work. Well I may be in the minority, but I am glad I can go out in the woods and feel safe without glowing.  I am gald I can go out and see deer, and harvest what I choose, not what is chosen for me, and that I have good friends to share the experience with.  If any of you guys want to experience deer hunting the way it is supposed to be, get a hold of me, we will make arrangemsnts for you to come up and see how relaxing and enjoyable it can be rather than how stressed and competitive it can be.

what the F are you talking about?

go up there for real hunting? you need to pull the stick out of your ---

well i guess we have no idea of what we are doing down here right.

oh man we get a ton of tags and now we are a bunch of hillbillys?

ever think you only get a few tags because you live in a 1 horse town.

dont come down on us for having such a HUGE deer population and a need to thin it out every year.

kudos to you for killing what you want, its the same here as well, i could filled ALL my tags

if i so choose to do so but thats none of your concern, must be the pressure of hunting here, right.

as for not seeing deer, I have deer on my land 24/7, there are tons of deer out here thats why we get more tags, so stop hating on us for having more.

why dont you come down here for a real hunting experience, laid back brother, no more comp here than anywhere else.

Hunting is about doing your own thing, thats what its about. some ppl love the comp and stress of hunting and live for it. not me personally but others do, so who are you to judge what others do. because they do thing differant than you it must be wrong. get off your horse.

harvest what I choose, not what is chosen for me you said.

they sure did choose for you if you only get 1 DMP every 4 years

some ppl just cant handle the facts.

So we need less tags out here so hunting would be more enjoyable for us?? go back on your med's kid because you dont know what your talking about.

did you get your BIG BUCK this year? No, well you must need another AR on top of the one you allready have.

Some ppl just dont get it.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

Skyzmine..SZ is different than NZ. Smaller woods...more hunters in smaller tracts. More pressure. I believe thats what he is getting at. You even got stressed over a post