Shorten the NY Gun Season?

[fasteddie]

Less hunters , "you betcha" ! I remember when you used to see numerour vehicles parked in fields , drives , etc during deer season . They have pretty much disappeared . I hunted Geneseo about 7 times this past year and never saw one hunter during Bow , Gun or late ML seasons .

[bubba]

I dont know. I would think we as hunters would want more numbers.  I guess not.  Let's make it an elite sport for those who will be able to afford it as the costs go up due to less people buying licenses.  I can see where if someone who was thinking about taking up hunting could come here and see all the argments complaining and miracle fixes would say umm no thanks. I admit I am as guilty for doing so as anyone else.  If we do not bring in new peope, the sport will go to the wayside.  There are way too many groups and organizations who would love to see that and work hard every day to make it happen.  I am also aware that in the woods, people do not act the way they do on here, but this is what the public sees, not us in the woods. 

[nyantler]

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there are less hunters moving the deer and they seem to be going nocturnal as soon as they feel any hunting pressure at all.

Deer can't go nocturnal if you don't let them... if you go find them and dog their butt it's hard for them to be nocturnal...

[Doc]

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I dont know. I would think we as hunters would want more numbers.  I guess not.  Let's make it an elite sport for those who will be able to afford it as the costs go up due to less people buying licenses.  I can see where if someone who was thinking about taking up hunting could come here and see all the argments complaining and miracle fixes would say umm no thanks. I admit I am as guilty for doing so as anyone else.  If we do not bring in new peope, the sport will go to the wayside.  There are way too many groups and organizations who would love to see that and work hard every day to make it happen.  I am also aware that in the woods, people do not act the way they do on here, but this is what the public sees, not us in the woods.

I'm not sure just how many future hunters we actually influence on internet forums. I think the reasons for shrinking  numbers are varied and many, but I suspect that forums have a very small impact on that situation.

My thought is that the biggest impacts are cultural, and while we don't really like to hear it, I believe the anti-hunting organizations are having their impacts on hunting and how the public views the activity. Quite simply, they are heavily financed and organized and have the ear of the media while we are content to remain divided and disorganized. It's kind of hard to win the hearts and minds of perspective hunters when we continue to handicap ourselves in that way. The public perception of hunting continues to slide into something that many people would rather not be associated with.

The way I see it, the handwriting is already on the wall, and I don't feel real optomistic that the trends can ever be reversed.

[Doc]

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there are less hunters moving the deer and they seem to be going nocturnal as soon as they feel any hunting pressure at all.

Deer can't go nocturnal if you don't let them... if you go find them and dog their butt it's hard for them to be nocturnal...

And years ago, that's exactly what used to happen. There used to be huge drives that basically beat out any kinds of sanctuary areas that the deer were trying to hang up in. Guys used to stand for about an hour and then be constantly on their feet snooping and pushing every little patch of brush and every little thicket. That's the way it was ...... not the way it is. Yes, as an individual, you can go root them out, but as a general trend in today's hunting, that simply is not happening. Hunters are content to sit all hunkered down at the base of a tree for a few hours and then head out to their cars. And that is why so many guys are getting the impression that there are no deer around. That's not to say that there are not areas where real deer scarcity occurs, but that does explain why some people in some areas say the herds are devasted when sightings after the season, and other sign observed by those that recognize deer sign say otherwise.

[wztirem]

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there are less hunters moving the deer and they seem to be going nocturnal as soon as they feel any hunting pressure at all.

Deer can't go nocturnal if you don't let them... if you go find them and dog their butt it's hard for them to be nocturnal...

And years ago, that's exactly what used to happen. There used to be huge drives that basically beat out any kinds of sanctuary areas that the deer were trying to hang up in. Guys used to stand for about an hour and then be constantly on their feet snooping and pushing every little patch of brush and every little thicket. That's the way it was ...... not the way it is. Yes, as an individual, you can go root them out, but as a general trend in today's hunting, that simply is not happening. Hunters are content to sit all hunkered down at the base of a tree for a few hours and then head out to their cars. And that is why so many guys are getting the impression that there are no deer around. That's not to say that there are not areas where real deer scarcity occurs, but that does explain why some people in some areas say the herds are devasted when sightings after the season, and other sign observed by those that recognize deer sign say otherwise.

Deer are partially nocturnal animals. Each time you sit by a stand walk through an area, you leave scent behind.  If your scent is around all the time, the deer will be aware of your presence and avoid the area during daylight hours.

[G-Man]

Doc, couldn't agree with you more. my neighbor to the north is a hunting camp sits in a elevated box blind overlooking a field, he says there are no deer and if he gets one its everyother year or so, we take 15-20 deer a year every year since 1995 his "no deer" sure seem to be reproducing all the time.. i live on the property i hunt and in spring and summer i see herds of 50 or more in good hayfields and we consistantly pass up deer everyseason. I've told him to get back into the woods a little as the deer here seem to vacate the fields just before season starts(lot of road hunters out there) but he won't so he sees no deer....

[fasteddie]

That works in reverse also . I have hunted back in the woods 1/2 mile - 1 mile walk and have seen nothing only to get up by the barns and pasture to see the deer .

[nyantler]

A telltale sign of a small deer herd would be not seeing many tracks in the snow a day or two after a fresh snow... especially near a good, easily accessable, food source... one thing deer do more often than anything else is feed... I think it would be a good idea to notify the DEC if you are hunting an area that should hold quite a few deer, but you are not seeing the sign that would confirm it. Not sure what they would or could do for you in the short term.. but it definitely would raise some eyebrows if hunters were reporting such areas all across the state...

[BornToHunt]

Deer are partially nocturnal animals. Each time you sit by a stand walk through an area, you leave scent behind.  If your scent is around all the time, the deer will be aware of your presence and avoid the area during daylight hours.

I disagree, the deer at my camp are creatures of habit. It doesn't matter how much sent I leave in my woods the deer are always there, they seem to have gotten used to human scent in the woods and it doesn't bother them. During gun season we shot 2 bucks out of the same stand 1 week apart. The second dropped 5 feet from the first's gut pile. If human scent played such a big role I don't think you would have seen any deer in that area for a while. I think alot of this scent business is brought on by these big companys to get you to buy there products. Its all a scam.

[gjs4]

conditions continually change- too many reference the way things used to be. trying to offer a different perspective not be rude

[wztirem]

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A telltale sign of a small deer herd would be not seeing many tracks in the snow a day or two after a fresh snow... especially near a good, easily accessable, food source... one thing deer do more often than anything else is feed... I think it would be a good idea to notify the DEC if you are hunting an area that should hold quite a few deer, but you are not seeing the sign that would confirm it. Not sure what they would or could do for you in the short term.. but it definitely would raise some eyebrows if hunters were reporting such areas all across the state...

What would raise the DEC's eyebrows would be a significant increase in hunter deer kill reports.

[wztirem]

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I dont know. I would think we as hunters would want more numbers.  I guess not.  Let's make it an elite sport for those who will be able to afford it as the costs go up due to less people buying licenses.  I can see where if someone who was thinking about taking up hunting could come here and see all the argments complaining and miracle fixes would say umm no thanks. I admit I am as guilty for doing so as anyone else.  If we do not bring in new peope, the sport will go to the wayside.  There are way too many groups and organizations who would love to see that and work hard every day to make it happen.  I am also aware that in the woods, people do not act the way they do on here, but this is what the public sees, not us in the woods.

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[gjs4]

Strength in numbers....yes....death by dumbasses- even moreso.

How many "good gun owners" have been in the news in 2011? Everyone knows the d-bag kids from AZ though

Desperation is to hang on to our weak- sorry boys I rather fight for small numbers but have the safety....and it wouldnt be elitist if it was just hardwork

[nyantler]

I don't think more numbers necessarily equates to a better hunting experience... but i'm sure other guys do.

[MountainHunter]

Many people want change or improvement but they don't want to be the one's giving up some thing.

There are only a couple of ways to implement improvements in the quality of our hunting. AR's,a one buck per season limit,significantly shortening the firearms seasons. (clearly the most effective deer killing weapons).

It is discouraging that no one wants to sacrifice,yet they want to see deer numbers increase or antler quality increasing.

The length of the archery season would have very,very little impact on over all kill numbers,make it two months longer,in the scheme of things it would make very little difference.

Season length has every thing to do with habitat and hunter density. Vast tracts of habitat,low hunter density longer firearms season have less impact. Small area's or broken up pieces of huntable land with high hunter density is conducive to a much more negative effect by longer firearms seasons.

Pretty basic stuff!

[bubba]

not everyone wants ot see deer numbers increase and antler size increase.  Some of us are happy making it a sport, not a competition and always have to better what we did last season.

[arrowflinger]

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Many people want change or improvement but they don't want to be the one's giving up some thing.

There are only a couple of ways to implement improvements in the quality of our hunting. AR's,a one buck per season limit,significantly shortening the firearms seasons. (clearly the most effective deer killing weapons).

Don't forget moving the gun season out of the rut....that would help protect bucks when they are most vulnerable.

Interestingly, however, each of these can be disputed.

Ohio does not have AR, but they obviously have big bucks.

IL has a 2 buck rule and no AR, yet they have big bucks.

TX has a really long gun season, but they have big bucks.

[MountainHunter]

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not everyone wants ot see deer numbers increase and antler size increase.  Some of us are happy making it a sport, not a competition and always have to better what we did last season.

No of course not "everyone" but what are the two most common complaints of deer hunters? They are either not seeing many deer or they are not seeing bucks or "decent" bucks.

It is not possible to satisfy "everyone".

[MountainHunter]

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Many people want change or improvement but they don't want to be the one's giving up some thing.

There are only a couple of ways to implement improvements in the quality of our hunting. AR's,a one buck per season limit,significantly shortening the firearms seasons. (clearly the most effective deer killing weapons).

Don't forget moving the gun season out of the rut....that would help protect bucks when they are most vulnerable.

Interestingly, however, each of these can be disputed.

Ohio does not have AR, but they obviously have big bucks.

IL has a 2 buck rule and no AR, yet they have big bucks.

TX has a really long gun season, but they have big bucks.

I agree. In each of those states there are specific reasons for the differences,In ohio and Illinois probably the lengths of their firearms seasons and in Texas likely the vastness of the area,the difficult access because of how much is private and the appreciation they have for bigger bucks.

[nyantler]

OMG finally someone who understands the whole deer management concept!!.. Welcome aboard Scot! Nice to have someone else that knows what he's talking about.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

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Deer are partially nocturnal animals. Each time you sit by a stand walk through an area, you leave scent behind.  If your scent is around all the time, the deer will be aware of your presence and avoid the area during daylight hours.

Great point....let me really stir up the kettle.

The deer do seem to be more likely to go nocturnal than they use to when I was young (can't believe I used that sentence...lol) Is it the lack of hunters that aren't there to push them around...and a lot of the ones that are out there use stands......or has the increased popularity of bow hunting over what it used to be made them super sensative to human presence. Or the advent of all the scouting rage...in the woods for cams....ect. Maybe the guys I grew up hunting with were just simple minded hunters but we didn't spend the time int he woods preseason like I do now. Could all this activity prior to gun season be contributing to the activity during the season?

[gjs4]

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Many people want change or improvement but they don't want to be the one's giving up some thing.

There are only a couple of ways to implement improvements in the quality of our hunting. AR's,a one buck per season limit,significantly shortening the firearms seasons. (clearly the most effective deer killing weapons).

Don't forget moving the gun season out of the rut....that would help protect bucks when they are most vulnerable.

Interestingly, however, each of these can be disputed.

Ohio does not have AR, but they obviously have big bucks.

IL has a 2 buck rule and no AR, yet they have big bucks.

TX has a really long gun season, but they have big bucks.

Simple factors to answer these:

Hunter Density

Agricultural Presence/Soil Quality

DNR organization that knows its deer numbers and herds (thats the big one imo)

[bubba]

I think they should eliminate Sunday hunting again.  Lots of states do so and have great results.  We should all be in church anyway, which is where I am going now.

[nyantler]

Amen Bubba