Asking for permission

[G-Man]

Pretty good article on asking for and how to ask,https://www.qdma.com/articles/10-tips-on-asking-for-permission-to-hunt

[steve863]

Funny how these type of articles forgot to mention the tip that is probably most important these days.   That would be to offer some cold hard CASH.  And that won't even get you access in many cases either.  More and more landowners are leasing out land and then we should think that we can win them over by being dressed nice, having fresh smelling breath or bringing our cute little kids along?  I guess it's possible, but good luck in finding a landowner who will be so easily suckered when his neighbor next door is getting some nice money for the use of his land!  Possible but NOT likely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

While CASH does work especially in a lot of the whitetail destination states.  I know many landowners in the area that tell you to take that CASH else where if the things in the article don't follow suite.  Heck one neighbor to my parent's farm won't let you hunt no matter how much cash you've got unless you're a local.  CASH can create huge access problems and I'm glad NY is less like other states so heavily leased.

[steve863]

 Heck one neighbor to my parent's farm won't let you hunt no matter how much cash you've got unless you're a local.   

 

 

That's why I said that cash won't even work in many cases.  Most people who have to drive a good distance from suburban or urban areas to get to their hunting spot have almost ZERO chances of finding land with or without cash.  Heck cash won't work so why would a landowner give access to a total stranger just because he might be dressed nice and is personable?  Doesn't happen very often in the real world.  A guy would have to spend an entire summer going door to door with little or no luck.  One HUGE reason why many hunters are giving it up.  Just not worth the effort, nor do people have the kind of time needed to devote to such a search that will end up in failure 97%+ of the time.

Edited August 19, 2015 by steve863

[BizCT]

Mo money mo problems

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G-Man]

I don't think cash is a big deal I drive to deleware.didnt county and hunted turkey for years, saw birds in a field tried tonstop.and ask owner and they weren't home went across street to neighbor and inquire if owner was maybe there, was told no he had day job but why was I looking for him,

Told the neighbor in saw a flock of turkey by the road and saw it was posted thought I'd ask if I could go after them, (they were 50 yards off road)

He looked at me and asked where I was from I said buffalo and he asked that's a long way to come hunt turkey! He then said the was a flock out behind barn an my friend and I were welcome to go after them, we looked behind barn and there were 10 gobblers, 10 minutes later we knocked o n the farmers door each holding a bird and expressed out thanks, handed him 20 bucks for his kindness, which he gave back and said his farm was leased to hunt deer but if we want to come back and hunt turkey we were more then welcome, 10 years we hunted there and he was asked to lease it for turkey as well, he did, but kept the first 2 days of season for us no charge! He introduced us to his son and we got.invited for deer as well, we declined and simply hunt turkey there for a few more years till my turkey hunting companion passed.

A heartfelt thank you and a Christmas card was all that ever was exchanged.

[dbHunterNY]

That's why I said that cash won't even work in many cases.  Most people who have to drive a good distance from suburban or urban areas to get to their hunting spot have almost ZERO chances of finding land with or without cash.  Heck cash won't work so why would a landowner give access to a total stranger just because he might be dressed nice and is personable?  Doesn't happen very often in the real world.  A guy would have to spend an entire summer going door to door with little or no luck.  One HUGE reason why many hunters are giving it up.  Just not worth the effort, nor do people have the kind of time needed to devote to such a search that will end up in failure 97%+ of the time.

 

I have yet to witness someone coming to the farm and offering to fix fence or unload hay bales even a few times during the summer to hunt the farm. 

 

recently re-posted it too and had a guy on one boarder notice the signs.  then told my dad that he didn't understand and we needed to let him hunt the farm.  sense of entitlement rubbed my dad the wrong way despite dad was still polite to the guy. 

 

had a guy and his son roll up on an ATV, with a dead squirrel strapped to the rack then asked to hunt deer and turkey!  He didn't have permission to be there to begin with.  I was polite but told him no and gave him multiple reasons unrelated to his obvious screw up I didn't point out to him. 

 

Had a guy out of the blue hunting up on the farm with a buddy he brought.  came in from the back side.  he asked once to hunt about 10 years ago and assumed he still had permission without any other contact with any of us.  others who have permission questioned him being there and he had an attitude.

 

multiple times have had a truck full of guys in camo, first week of regular season, and that we've never met show up asking to hunt.  tell me that's a good use of time, as their burning time during the season and not in off season.

 

...I've got more as this list is long.  people have gotten permission to hunt and have had success hunting on the farm.  most don't get the fundamentals like what's in that original post.  all is not lost.  ask right and you could seem like a breathe of fresh air to a landowner.

[steve863]

I have yet to witness someone coming to the farm and offering to fix fence or unload hay bales even a few times during the summer to hunt the farm. 

 

recently re-posted it too and had a guy on one boarder notice the signs.  then told my dad that he didn't understand and we needed to let him hunt the farm.  sense of entitlement rubbed my dad the wrong way despite dad was still polite to the guy. 

 

had a guy and his son roll up on an ATV, with a dead squirrel strapped to the rack then asked to hunt deer and turkey!  He didn't have permission to be there to begin with.  I was polite but told him no and gave him multiple reasons unrelated to his obvious screw up I didn't point out to him. 

 

Had a guy out of the blue hunting up on the farm with a buddy he brought.  came in from the back side.  he asked once to hunt about 10 years ago and assumed he still had permission without any other contact with any of us.  others who have permission questioned him being there and he had an attitude.

 

multiple times have had a truck full of guys in camo, first week of regular season, and that we've never met show up asking to hunt.  tell me that's a good use of time, as their burning time during the season and not in off season.

 

...I've got more as this list is long.  people have gotten permission to hunt and have had success hunting on the farm.  most don't get the fundamentals like what's in that original post.  all is not lost.  ask right and you could seem like a breathe of fresh air to a landowner.

 

 

I would most definitely agree that others have screwed it up for many of us in trying to get permission to hunt. 

 

Maybe it's possible to find that kind landowner/farmer that would let a total stranger on their land, but they also probably have friends and family that might be hunting their land.  He can't let everyone hunt, or if he is the type that don't care how many hunt, then the people hunting it will probably be stepping on each others toes sooner or later.  I hunted a place like that years ago, and there were times the place was a total circus.  Lots of issues and factors to consider or might come into play.  I still think it's the exception and not the rule to find private spots being a total stranger to the landowner.  And the search for hunters might be a very LONG one if he does ever find one.

[Caveman]

My generation (~25 or so) is screwed more so than most.  The bulk of us are just too entitled and rude.  When is the last time you heard a person my age call someone "sir"? I don't mean feigning respect to get a traffic ticket written down.  I mean walked into a shop and asked the man behind the counter, "Excuse me, sir, I was wondering if you had a minute to help me find . . ."  When is the last time you saw someone my age take off his hat when entering a building or talking to someone? 

 

Rude, lazy, and entitled has become the rule, and those of us who were raised right don't stand a chance in situations like this anymore because when I knock on a door, remove my hat, and say "good evening, sir" I still can't shake the association with the kid last week that rang the doorbell at dinner time, sagged his pants, wore a backward hat, and said, "Yo, can I hunt here?"  

[steve863]

My generation (~25 or so) is screwed more so than most.  The bulk of us are just too entitled and rude.  When is the last time you heard a person my age call someone "sir"? I don't mean feigning respect to get a traffic ticket written down.  I mean walked into a shop and asked the man behind the counter, "Excuse me, sir, I was wondering if you had a minute to help me find . . ."  When is the last time you saw someone my age take off his hat when entering a building or talking to someone? 

 

Rude, lazy, and entitled has become the rule, and those of us who were raised right don't stand a chance in situations like this anymore because when I knock on a door, remove my hat, and say "good evening, sir" I still can't shake the association with the kid last week that rang the doorbell at dinner time, sagged his pants, wore a backward hat, and said, "Yo, can I hunt here?"  

 

This is a bit of an exaggeration in my opinion.  Lots of other things come into play when people interact.  Yes, being polite and respectful will never hurt, but you have someone come into a job interview who is all "Yes sir" and  "Thank you, Mam" with mediocre skills, experience and school grades, he will most likely NOT get the job over someone who is just so-so in the politeness category, yet has great skills, experience and school grades.  The person who is totally obnoxious may not stand a chance either, but having impeccable manners won't get you far if there is little else backing you up.  Not having perfect manners doesn't automatically make someone rude, lazy or entitled either.  Lots of obnoxious folks have become quite successful in this world.  And this goes back decades and centuries, not something that has only happened in the last 20 years.

 

Also tell me that a sexy looking girl won't have an advantage over one that has these impeccable manners, yet looks like Rosie O'Donell?  It will be NO contest.

[Caveman]

Obviously rude people can be successful (last time I checked Trump was still leading the GOP polls).  What I meant is more that in a situation like asking for hunting land, not having manners (and I don't mean impeccable, I mean conducting yourself in a way that communicates a sense of respect) will disqualify you immediately in most cases.  A landowner is only going to be disrespected (in a situation where they have something you want and in no way stand to benefit from the transaction) for so long before the default answer becomes "no."  

 

In your examples of job interviews and dating, you're right.  However, getting free permission to hunt is different.  Little else goes into the transaction except the person you are.  By that I mean, the landowner doesn't need something from you independent of respect like an employer or a girlfriend would.  You can put up with a rude girlfriend if she cooks well and still likes to "experiment" with her college roommates while you watch.  Likewise, you can put up with a rude employee if he bills more hours than anyone else.  But what do you really bring to the table as a hunter looking for free permission other than respect and gratitude?   

 

I will admit, my examples were a little over the top.  But evening assuming just adequate manners, I stand by the point. 

 

Either way, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and we can all agree access is getting harder to come by (for free at least).

Edited August 19, 2015 by Wildcats160

[Curmudgeon]

Funny how these type of articles forgot to mention the tip that is probably most important these days.   That would be to offer some cold hard CASH. 

 

For the landowner, taking cash creates a liability issue. I would not take cash from anyone who hunts here. I can't let many people deer hunt with firearms since it is a Christmas tree farm and safety is paramount but I let people bow hunt and also small game.

 

One guy gave my wife a jake turkey he shot. She was thrilled.

 

[grampy]

So, who am I going to give permission to hunt my property? 

 

The smart a$$ with an attitude who thinks he is entitled because he is all that and more.

                                                Or

The guy who shows up at my place with a hearty hand shake and warm smile, looking for a place to hunt with his kid, who is not afraid of work?

 

Hmmmmm.............

[steve863]

For the landowner, taking cash creates a liability issue.  

 

 

This isn't stopping many landowners.  There are easy legal ways to avoid  a lot of liability, especially when it involves an activity which has risks involved to begin with.    If landowners were really worried about getting sued, then they would surely NEVER allow anyone on their land.  You can be sued for anything.  Doesn't mean you will be liable in all cases, but you CAN get sued whether there is a cash exchange or not.

[BellR]

 If landowners were really worried about getting sued, then they would surely NEVER allow anyone on their land.  You can be sued for anything.  Doesn't mean you will be liable in all cases, but you CAN get sued whether there is a cash exchange or not.

 

Not really true.  In NYS, it doesn't matter if you give permission to someone or they are trespassing, if its posted or not, the landowner is protected from liability unless there is a clear safety hazard that they knew of and neglected to warn someone of, such as a well in the middle of a field that they knew of.  In any other case, the landowner is protected.  Now, as soon as one dollar changes hands, the landowners becomes liable for a LOT more.  That is why EVERY lease you will find through a company requires liability insurance.  You may be able to come to an agreement with a farmer without the insurance, but that is just because he doesn't realize that he is suddenly liable if you sprain your ankle on his land.

[steve863]

Not really true.  In NYS, it doesn't matter if you give permission to someone or they are trespassing, if its posted or not, the landowner is protected from liability unless there is a clear safety hazard that they knew of and neglected to warn someone of, such as a well in the middle of a field that they knew of.  In any other case, the landowner is protected.  Now, as soon as one dollar changes hands, the landowners becomes liable for a LOT more.  That is why EVERY lease you will find through a company requires liability insurance.  You may be able to come to an agreement with a farmer without the insurance, but that is just because he doesn't realize that he is suddenly liable if you sprain your ankle on his land.

 

 

Well, thats just it.  It will be up to the court to decide whether there were any safety hazards if someone decides to sue. The landowner will have to go to court and give his side of the story.  Will cost him wages, legal fees, etc., and even if he wins the case he will be down some money with plenty of aggravation.  

[chiefbkt]

This isn't stopping many landowners.  There are easy legal ways to avoid  a lot of liability, especially when it involves an activity which has risks involved to begin with.    If landowners were really worried about getting sued, then they would surely NEVER allow anyone on their land.  You can be sued for anything.  Doesn't mean you will be liable in all cases, but you CAN get sued whether there is a cash exchange or not.

 

Owning a farm, I know most farmers have a good amount of liability coverage for the seasonal helpers, but that doesn't cover hunters.  I know you can add the additional liability to cover hunters (about $800 more annually for us) if you wanted to.  We lease property in Oswego County (~600 acres) and split the insurance fees that the landowner incurs.  They were willing to let us hunt it for next to nothing.  However, one of our original members is an insurance agent and insisted that he put the additional coverage on his plan and that he allow us to pay for it. That was nearly 25 years ago.  Between the 8 members in the club we pay $300 each annually.  This covers his insurance and gives him a little extra spending cash.  They don't hunt and let us build a small cabin on the south end of the property to stay in.  Couldn't ask for a better deal. Sorry for the derailment...haha

[steve863]

Owning a farm, I know most farmers have a good amount of liability coverage for the seasonal helpers, but that doesn't cover hunters.  I know you can add the additional liability to cover hunters (about $800 more annually for us) if you wanted to.  We lease property in Oswego County (~600 acres) and split the insurance fees that the landowner incurs.  They were willing to let us hunt it for next to nothing.  However, one of our original members is an insurance agent and insisted that he put the additional coverage on his plan and that he allow us to pay for it. That was nearly 25 years ago.  Between the 8 members in the club we pay $300 each annually.  This covers his insurance and gives him a little extra spending cash.  They don't hunt and let us build a small cabin on the south end of the property to stay in.  Couldn't ask for a better deal. Sorry for the derailment...haha

 

 

Good deal for sure, for everyone involved!

[G-Man]

Nys has a law that keeps hunters from suing landowners..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Nys has a law that keeps hunters from suing landowners..

It stops landowners that allow access for any recreational purpose or even trespassers from winning a judgement but I still believe and person can still file suit. Anyone can sue. Would be an quick boot from the court system I would bet.  If there is money exchanged, as in a lease, then all bets are off under the General Obligation law 

 

New York General Obligation Law

§ 9-103. No duty to keep premises safe for certain uses; responsibility for acts of such users.

1. Except as provided in subdivision two,

a. an owner, lessee or occupant of premises, whether or not posted as provided in section 11-2111 of the environmental conservation law, owes no duty to keep the premises safe for entry or use by others for hunting, fishing, organized gleaning as defined in section seventy-one-y of the agriculture and markets law, canoeing, boating, trapping, hiking, cross-country skiing, tobogganing, sledding, speleological activities, horseback riding, bicycle riding, hang gliding, motorized vehicle operation for recreational purposes, snowmobile operation, cutting or gathering of wood for non-commercial purposes or training of dogs, or to give warning of any hazardous condition or use of or structure or activity on such premises to persons entering for such purposes;

b. an owner, lessee or occupant of premises who gives permission to another to pursue any such activities upon such premises does not thereby

(1) extend any assurance that the premises are safe for such purpose, or

(2) constitute the person to whom permission is granted an invitee to whom a duty of care is owed, or

(3) assume responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or property caused by any act of persons to whom the permission is granted.

c. an owner, lessee or occupant of a farm, as defined in section six hundred seventy-one of the labor law, whether or not posted as provided in section 11-2111 of the environmental conservation law, owes no duty to keep such farm safe for entry or use by a person who enters or remains in or upon such farm without consent or privilege, or to give warning of any hazardous condition or use of or structure or activity on such farm to persons so entering or remaining. This shall not be interpreted, or construed, as a limit on liability for acts of gross negligence in addition to those other acts referred to in subdivision two of this section.

2. This section does not limit the liability which would otherwise exist

a. for willful or malicious failure to guard, or to warn against, a dangerous condition, use, structure or activity; or

b. for injury suffered in any case where permission to pursue any of the activities enumerated in this section was granted for a consideration other than the consideration, if any, paid to said landowner by the state or federal government, or permission to train dogs was granted for a consideration other than that provided for in section 11-0925 of the environmental conservation law; or

c. for injury caused, by acts of persons to whom permission to pursue any of the activities enumerated in this section was granted, to other persons as to whom the person granting permission, or the owner, lessee or occupant of the premises, owed a duty to keep the premises safe or to warn of danger.

3. Nothing in this section creates a duty of care or ground of liability for injury to person or property.

[jjb4900]

 Anyone can sue. 

and that alone is all it takes for many to say it's not worth the hassle......even if someone files a lawsuit that is unwinnable, the property owner still has to answer it and spend money to do so.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

and that alone is all it takes for many to say it's not worth the hassle......even if someone files a lawsuit that is unwinnable, the property owner still has to answer it and spend money to do so.

Unfortunately. We need reform where losing party pays the others legal fees.

[Curmudgeon]

and that alone is all it takes for many to say it's not worth the hassle......even if someone files a lawsuit that is unwinnable, the property owner still has to answer it and spend money to do so.

 

 I had some small scale manufacturing going on here at one time and got into a detailed conversation with my insurance company. My homeowners/farmowners insurance company must defend me if I am sued for something on my land. So, if someone is hunting here and falls out of his tree stand, he can try to sue me but it will be frivolous and dismissed. I don't know if normal homeowners insurance would be the same.

 

Having no insurance at all would mean the landowner has to defend himself. However, with no insurance policy to fill their bank accounts, what assets are they going after?

Edited August 20, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[jjb4900]

 I had some small scale manufacturing going on here at one time and got into a detailed conversation with my insurance company. My homeowners/farmowners insurance company must defend me if I am sued for something on my land. So, if someone is hunting here and falls out of his tree stand, he can try to sue me but it will be frivolous and dismissed. I don't know if normal homeowners insurance would be the same.

 

Having no insurance at all would mean the landowner has to defend himself. However, with no insurance policy to fill their bank accounts, what assets are they going after?

Land? I know someone who was on the losing end of a wrongful death suit that resulted from a car accident..........they wound up having to remortgage their home to come up with what their insurance company didn't cover, and they weren't even found totally at fault.