1 and done.

[phade]

And there you are whining about how something is worded rather than adding anything useful to the discussion. In fact that's all you ever do is whine about how someone is expressing themselves. Never do you have any constructive additions to the discussion. And yes my comment in that last reply is absolutely appropriate. If there is so much commonality across the country, then why is each state struggling to come up with their own unique versions and nuances to their deer management. While you are whimpering about how something is worded, you are running away from the truth of the statement. If things are so common from one state to another, a pooled federal activity absolutely could be set up nationwide to define "best practices" in deer management. But then everyone except a couple of people on this forum understand that. But the point has been well made and even each of every different state understands that they have their own peculiarities and needs and they all have to design their own management to handle the uniqueness of their own circumstances. I don't even see how anyone can argue that. I have outlined a few of the more glaring unique features of NYS which are so obvious that it surprises me that I have to list them. And if you guys were not so busy trying to prove me wrong, you would have to have the honesty to admit the obvious.

 

Regional problems require regional solutions. Yeah that's right. One size does not fit all. Not here within the state and certainly not across the country. Things from other states can and should be looked at and I'm sure already have. But it is just patently ignorant to say,  "Well gee it works there so it has to work here". While the DEC has many known flaws that they should work on, thank heavens their logic is not that screwed-up as to apply that kind of reasoning.

 

No, their logic is to not release relevant info or data, use the wrong implement (which YOU HARP ON), and yet their logic is "not that screwed up."

 

More from both sides of the mouth and circular logic.

Edited September 11, 2015 by phade

[steve863]

 Ever meet a toothless wonder, pill popping hunter from Scioto Co. Ohio? 

 

 

I've seen enough of these even in NYS to wonder whether this was a prerequisite to buying a hunting license.  LOL

[WNYBuckHunter]

And there you are whining about how something is worded rather than adding anything useful to the discussion. In fact that's all you ever do is whine about how someone is expressing themselves. Never do you have any constructive additions to the discussion. And yes my comment in that last reply is absolutely appropriate. If there is so much commonality across the country, then why is each state struggling to come up with their own unique versions and nuances to their deer management. While you are whimpering about how something is worded, you are running away from the truth of the statement. If things are so common from one state to another, a pooled federal activity absolutely could be set up nationwide to define "best practices" in deer management. But then everyone except a couple of people on this forum understand that. But the point has been well made and even each of every different state understands that they have their own peculiarities and needs and they all have to design their own management to handle the uniqueness of their own circumstances. I don't even see how anyone can argue that. I have outlined a few of the more glaring unique features of NYS which are so obvious that it surprises me that I have to list them. And if you guys were not so busy trying to prove me wrong, you would have to have the honesty to admit the obvious.

 

Regional problems require regional solutions. Yeah that's right. One size does not fit all. Not here within the state and certainly not across the country. Things from other states can and should be looked at and I'm sure already have. But it is just patently ignorant to say,  "Well gee it works there so it has to work here". While the DEC has many known flaws that they should work on, thank heavens their logic is not that screwed-up as to apply that kind of reasoning.

 

Im not whining at all, Im calling your BS for what it is.

 

Ive made more constructive replies to these subjects than I care to go back and count. Maybe you should take your blinders off and read them.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I've seen enough of these even in NYS to wonder whether this was a prerequisite to buying a hunting license.  LOL

 

Thanks for the shot of comedy steve lmao

[Doc]

No, their logic is to not release relevant info or data, use the wrong implement (which YOU HARP ON), and yet their logic is "not that screwed up."

 

More from both sides of the mouth and circular logic.

Believe me, I am not an apologist for the DEC. I have been a very harsh critic of theirs. But I also do understand that their job is not as simple as drawing up a list of laws and regulations from other states that sound real neat and making that our game management plan. And yes, I will give them credit when they do not engage in some of the silly logic that I sometimes hear on this forum. And yes, I can whack them on top of the head when they do something that defies all understanding. And when it turns out that they have not fallen to faulty reasoning, they have to get credit for that too.

 

No, unlike you, I have not declared total war on the DEC. They are not my enemy in any way that I can prove.....yet. And yes, I will always be free with my opinions, both positive and negative, and there is no circular logic in that or any speaking out of both sides of the mouth, simply an honest assessment as I see it. Of course you know that but apparently you had to have something negative to put in your reply. I'm sorry you feel that way because it does make civil discourse and constructive conversation just about impossible.

[Doc]

Im not whining at all, Im calling your BS for what it is.

 

Ive made more constructive replies to these subjects than I care to go back and count. Maybe you should take your blinders off and read them.

It really is not worth the effort. I think my assessment of your discussion techniques is pretty much on the mark, and you know it too.

[phade]

Believe me, I am not an apologist for the DEC. I have been a very harsh critic of theirs. But I also do understand that their job is not as simple as drawing up a list of laws and regulations from other states that sound real neat and making that our game management plan. And yes, I will give them credit when they do not engage in some of the silly logic that I sometimes hear on this forum. And yes, I can whack them on top of the head when they do something that defies all understanding. And when it turns out that they have not fallen to faulty reasoning, they have to get credit for that too.

 

No, unlike you, I have not declared total war on the DEC. They are not my enemy in any way that I can prove.....yet. And yes, I will always be free with my opinions, both positive and negative, and there is no circular logic in that or any speaking out of both sides of the mouth, simply an honest assessment as I see it. Of course you know that but apparently you had to have something negative to put in your reply. I'm sorry you feel that way because it does make civil discourse and constructive conversation just about impossible.

 

 

 

I am still confused as to why if the DEC is so panicked to knock down deer numbers in certain WMUs, why did they implement the fee for applying for antlerless permits. In fact, why are these permits not given out free and easily available as a printed out internet page. How seriously can one take all this panic attack that the DEC is going through over high populations when the best they can come up is to penalize bow hunters (only). You have to wonder why their actions do not involve gun hunters at all, even though that is where they would get their biggest bang for the buck.

 

And then there is the thought that if you really want to cut deer populations down in certain select areas, why would you place doe only restrictions on those areas and likely convince hunters to vacate the problem areas and hunt other areas? Does that make sense? Not to me.

 

 

I wonder if it has occurred to any of these geniuses that by restricting harvests to "doe only" that likely the overall hunting pressure in those select high population areas likely will go down as hunters opt to hunt other areas where they don't have to watch the buck of a lifetime walk by. Exactly the opposite of what they are trying to do.

 

(Cross-posted from the other thread)

 

 

So I just got my latest issue of New York Outdoor News and they have a pretty good article on what I am starting to call the "DEC's war on bow hunting" .... lol. Well maybe it's not a war on bowhunting, but they now recognize that the crossbow issue has neutered the NY Bowhunters, and we now make an easy mark for anything they want to do to bow season.

 

This antlerless mandate for bowhunters only, now has a part 2 added in as part of their grand plan for deer management  balanced in the backs of bowhunters. Apparently there is a provision that they also have in mind that says that if the bowhunters don't do a good enough job of singlehandedly controlling the deer population, that old "early muzzleloader season" that was beaten back by NY Bowhunters a decade back, comes back as a punishment. The quote from DEC's Stang: "The next step - outlined in the Deer Management Plan - would be the implementation of a special antlerless only muzzleloader season in select WMUs. We could start to consider more aggressive tactics like an early muzzleloader season" Stang said.

 

I believe you can interpret all of that as when the bowhunters don't take care of the antlerless harvest requirements, we will jam guns into the regular bow season to whatever extent is necessary to handle the management needs.

 

I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so", but here comes the guns into bow season. Starts with the muzzleloaders just to set the precedent and after that? ..... Whatever they want to do.

 

I haven't heard any of the doe harvest remedies aimed at the gun season, so I can only assume that the bowhunters organization being properly trashed now, the DEC feels that the opposition is sufficiently crippled and the time to turn bow season into a more efficient doe harvest time-slot through whatever means possible is now. And now the blueprint for doing that is publicly laid out.

And I know that expecting bowhunters to be punished until the problem improves is not really going to be the answer or even part of the answer.

Geez, sure sounds like they're not an enemy to you.

[nyantler]

What problems or demographics are unique to NY that makes it "different"?

Sorry it took so long to get back too you.. I have a real life to live first.

 

The biggest problem is that we don't have a Conservation Dept. that has a track record of being effective in managing deer herds, hunters that can't make up their minds what they want or why they want it... as for demographics the 6 million acre ADK park is a different animal than anywhere in the country... and not easily manageable based on the mindset and cooperation by the state to do what it takes to manage it. As for the deer here they are a different strain than those of the south and act much differently than southern deer that don't have to deal with harsh winters. NY doesn't have other types of big game like the west ei. elk, mule deer, pronghorn, other sheep or big cats which take up the slack of a shorter whitetail season... I'll stop there so I don't get a cramp typing and to say... 

 

Beyond all that if all the other states programs are that much better and would be viable here, why hasn't the DEC seen that and jumped on board with the "end all be all" ideas of those states. They're either extremely stupid (possible) or they know the same thing that Doc and I suggest, NY is an entirely different animal and has underlying factors that steer them away from those programs. You don't need to respond because this isn't a discussion I care about winning or losing. I don't care to convince you or change your mind... it's my opinion and observation base on 25 years of personally dealings with both hunters and the DEC... I don't need facts add figures to tell me the sky is blue or the grass is green... I can see everything with my own eyes and hear with my own ears... the trend has been the same for 40 years and doesn't seem to be letting up. I will adjust to whatever regs. come down the pike and continue to enjoy hunting in spite of it all.

 

I respect your opinion,  mine just happens to be different.

[Doc]

 

Geez, sure sounds like they're not an enemy to you.

They are just like any government agency. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. And I am always right there to have an opinion on which is which, case by case.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It really is not worth the effort. I think my assessment of your discussion techniques is pretty much on the mark, and you know it too.

 

 

 

You might want to come up for air once in a while, its good for the lungs to take a rest from the methane gas.

 

[Doc]

You might want to come up for air once in a while, its good for the lungs to take a rest from the methane gas.

 

LOL .... God that is lame .... Ha-ha-ha. Look, I'll tell you what, Bunky. Seeing as to how your discussion skills have once again screwed yet another thread, and dissolved into childish insults, give me yet another one of your feeble shots and then you can say you had the last word that you so desperately need. I think everyone has heard just about enough of this, and it's pretty obvious that you are running out of quality insults. So take your best shot and then give everybody a break.

[G-Man]

1st not every deer in ohio is big, they take lots of little ones too, we take deer the same size in nys now without. 1 buck rule, access, restricting access, soil and habitat is much more varied in nys than ohio, as are the bedrock found there. All this plays into factors that effect growth of deer,

If you hunt near a big no hunting park or residential area, you can kill a huge buck, I think the biggest difference is the media portrait of big buck states, and that is based on entry into record books, I have several old neighbors that have more 130 and 140 skulls hanging on nail in barn and out buildings, one has a mouse chewed 104 point rack , every in of that bucks beams and main points are covered in 1 to 2 in stickers. NONE OF THESE BUCKS HAVE BEEN ENTERED, OR CHANCES ARE WILL EVER BE ENTERED. Frankly they don't care about it, the lucky buck was dead for many years before it was discovered.

Scores and big buck bragging is a fairly new phenomenon. You can see just by the increase in entry's every year,are bucks just getting bigger or is it the chance to brag or strike it rich that many need to get one in the book.

Most people around me still do not put a buck in a book officially,myself included,even a bear I got would.make book, I choose not to, though I do have them.scored incase some "trophy hunter" wants to tell me.what it scores or wants to know cause he shot a 140 class in Iowa and they just don't get that big around here...

[phade]

As if ohians enter all their bucks...

[WNYBuckHunter]

LOL .... God that is lame .... Ha-ha-ha. Look, I'll tell you what, Bunky. Seeing as to how your discussion skills have once again screwed yet another thread, and dissolved into childish insults, give me yet another one of your feeble shots and then you can say you had the last word that you so desperately need. I think everyone has heard just about enough of this, and it's pretty obvious that you are running out of quality insults. So take your best shot and then give everybody a break.

 

LOL, youre ridiculous. Mine wasnt the first shot fired in this conversation, lets go back to post 214 where the insults began. Its your MO in any thread in which someone disagrees with you and wont back down from your bloviating, insults and condescending attitude.

[Doc]

LOL, youre ridiculous. Mine wasnt the first shot fired in this conversation, lets go back to post 214 where the insults began. Its your MO in any thread in which someone disagrees with you and wont back down from your bloviating, insults and condescending attitude.

I apologize. I know I said I would make your day by giving you the last word, but I just can't pass this little gem that you handed me. You could have at least read your own quote that my reply was addressing instead of making a fool of yourself by calling attention to that one. Lol.... bloviate that   And this time I will really try to let you have the last word .....ha-ha-ha.

[gjs4]

The guys who kill the biggest bucks w skill (not lucky Joe or a guy who has built his ground for such purpose) hunt one specific animal.... Plan b only occurs when plan a is completed in success or failure

[LetEmGrow]

And there you are whining about how something is worded rather than adding anything useful to the discussion. In fact that's all you ever do is whine about how someone is expressing themselves. Never do you have any constructive additions to the discussion. And yes my comment in that last reply is absolutely appropriate. If there is so much commonality across the country, then why is each state struggling to come up with their own unique versions and nuances to their deer management. While you are whimpering about how something is worded, you are running away from the truth of the statement. If things are so common from one state to another, a pooled federal activity absolutely could be set up nationwide to define "best practices" in deer management. But then everyone except a couple of people on this forum understand that. But the point has been well made and even each of every different state understands that they have their own peculiarities and needs and they all have to design their own management to handle the uniqueness of their own circumstances. I don't even see how anyone can argue that. I have outlined a few of the more glaring unique features of NYS which are so obvious that it surprises me that I have to list them. And if you guys were not so busy trying to prove me wrong, you would have to have the honesty to admit the obvious.

Regional problems require regional solutions. Yeah that's right. One size does not fit all. Not here within the state and certainly not across the country. Things from other states can and should be looked at and I'm sure already have. But it is just patently ignorant to say, "Well gee it works there so it has to work here". While the DEC has many known flaws that they should work on, thank heavens their logic is not that screwed-up as to apply that kind of reasoning.

This just is not true cuz, if it were, those states would not all have regulations that are all very similar.

Bucks don't have babies.

The hardest thing is going backwards. The liberal deer regs in NY are so steeply ingrained in some NY hunters that they do not want it to change.

The only challenges those states face is weighing the balance of deer harvest to sustain a steady population. That has nothing to do with preserving bucks.

I think some people do not feel like they are capable of harvesting a mature buck when, in reality, it's just a numbers game. If there were a lot of them then the worst hunter in tge world would stumble on one from time to time.

NY is no different than any other deciduous state and they could easily create a better age class of bucks. Hell, if you have bad weather on opening day then it usually bumps up the number of mature bucks the next year. Well, before rifles anyway.

[mxsmitz201]

I like the idea of an earn a buck system, with the option to bypass the earn a buck at a premium. Those who hunt for antlers can have their buck tag but pay more for the tag than if they opted for an earn a buck tag. I'm sure a vast majority of antler hunters would opt to earn a buck rather than pay a premium for their big spike horn all the while lending a helping hand in managing the deer population. That way no one is telling you what you can hunt, the decision is yours.