QDM is ruining deer hunting

[WNYBuckHunter]

Helping my fm silly and friends understand hunting is far more helpful than someone else's. I pay my dues, and have for a number of years. You guys don't have to like my take, I am not bashing them- just expressing I feel like they do nothing for deer with regard to the politics/dec aspects of hunting. I belong to a bunch of other groups- they can claim wetlands saved, habitat improvement, etc ..... I laugh looking at the responses here- most are balled up and defensive against my opinion but are too dumb to know I reach out to the dec and at one point was starting a Qdma division here before some personal matters stifled that.

Typical old huntingNY- if you don't agree with us, we will wagon train around you and fling arrows until you quit.

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You arent getting bashed about your opinion. I am sorry that you feel that way about the QDMA, but what you have to realize is that the NY State chapter was previously a shambles, you had some leadership that used their voice through the organization to pump their personal views, and not much else. They werent very active with things, and after a while, national recognized what was going on, and other people stepped up to the plate to put more effort into doing things that make a difference politically and socially in regards to hunting and other things in NY. The biggest issue with the QDMA having the ability to gain recognition in the DEC and political circles in this state was the low membership numbers. Thats changing, and changing pretty quickly. I guess I can understand the doubt some may have based on what has gone on in this state in the past, but now might be a great time to take another look at the organization. Attend a few of the local events, see what we are doing.

[dbHunterNY]

Well Jack..If you were bright enough to know that QDMA is about the only group pushing QDM that may help you a bit.  As far as CWD and QDMA they were they most vocal about how it was going to kill everything yet do nothing to help. Typical from a group of a few people getting fat off of others.

 

As far as your sniffing comment you may want to take a little bit of your own advice but maybe i will keep a closer eye on things and see what other posts i can sniff around on. Sounds like a swell time.

 

Just an FYI...QDM is a joke in Ny state because 99% of the people dont have enough land to even have a slight impact.  So good luck trying to push that stupid idea!

 

I do take my own advice.  it's a public forum and the topic is something I'm apart of.  enjoy your swell time.  there's many people using QDM on their own land and getting a group together of contiguous acreage.  they're seen bucks probably reach their close to if not their full potential at 5.5-7.5 years old.  Plenty of folks doing what they need to manage the deer where they are.  it not an easy task but still definitely possible, even in NY.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I do take my own advice.  it's a public forum and the topic is something I'm apart of.  enjoy your swell time.  there's many people using QDM on their own land and getting a group together of contiguous acreage.  they're seen bucks probably reach their close to if not their full potential at 5.5-7.5 years old.  Plenty of folks doing what they need to manage the deer where they are.  it not an easy task but still definitely possible, even in NY.

Very few have enough land to make any kind of long term difference  Many let the babies walk and Ar is helping mature animals. But QDM as a hole i would think is a very small part of it. I do QDM in my TDM every year myself.

 

As far as your 5.5-7.5 year old bucks....Be sure to put pics up of all those success stories.  That is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Will need to see the proof...Not just Johnny at camp said so!

[Five Seasons]

Helping my fm silly and friends understand hunting is far more helpful than someone else's. I pay my dues, and have for a number of years. You guys don't have to like my take, I am not bashing them- just expressing I feel like they do nothing for deer with regard to the politics/dec aspects of hunting. I belong to a bunch of other groups- they can claim wetlands saved, habitat improvement, etc ..... I laugh looking at the responses here- most are balled up and defensive against my opinion but are too dumb to know I reach out to the dec and at one point was starting a Qdma division here before some personal matters stifled that.

Typical old huntingNY- if you don't agree with us, we will wagon train around you and fling arrows until you quit.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

maybe because it's monday and I haven't had enough coffee yet but I just dont understand what point you're trying to make. You're a member, but don't like some of their practices? They don't save enough land? Is that a requirement for a group? I don't have the time to read their charter, but I would guess that's not part of it... so you should know what your money goes to before you write that check. And if you don't like it, then stop. I stopped giving my money to NYB 2 years ago.

[dbHunterNY]

Very few have enough land to make any kind of long term difference  Many let the babies walk and Ar is helping mature animals. But QDM as a hole i would think is a very small part of it. I do QDM in my TDM every year myself.

 

As far as your 5.5-7.5 year old bucks....Be sure to put pics up of all those success stories.  That is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Will need to see the proof...Not just Johnny at camp said so!

 

you're right very few have enough land to make QDM really shine along.  all areas I know are groups from a couple land owners to 80+.  the smaller 2k+ acre groups that have been at it a while are usually the ones that have produced the fully mature bucks.  while they do have antler restrictions they're beyond that and those restrictions alone will never get you into that age class.  their hunters are more educated, can age bucks on the hoof with relative accuracy, and they've been exposed to the temptation of young bucks with good potential countless times already.  when I say a buck was harvested at 5.5-7.5 it means each johnny in camp had history with the deer, took the deer, and then sent the incisors out to get aged with some other folks and deer in camp.  half the cost per deer to have a group as a whole send the teeth out together.  even on the QDM properties many deer hit the dirt at 4.5 years old.  I understand the wanting proof.  i'll be sure to gather up details and post GPS coordinates too.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

you're right very few have enough land to make QDM really shine along.  all areas I know are groups from a couple land owners to 80+.  the smaller 2k+ acre groups that have been at it a while are usually the ones that have produced the fully mature bucks.  while they do have antler restrictions they're beyond that and those restrictions alone will never get you into that age class.  their hunters are more educated, can age bucks on the hoof with relative accuracy, and they've been exposed to the temptation of young bucks with good potential countless times already.  when I say a buck was harvested at 5.5-7.5 it means each johnny in camp had history with the deer, took the deer, and then sent the incisors out to get aged with some other folks and deer in camp.  half the cost per deer to have a group as a whole send the teeth out together.  even on the QDM properties many deer hit the dirt at 4.5 years old.  I understand the wanting proof.  i'll be sure to gather up details and post GPS coordinates too.

Nah..I have my own honey holes on each ends of the state but yeah..Do show those QDM made 5.5 to 7.5 bucks. They must send reports back with the teeth from those bucks. Season is right around the corner, Im sure this thread will stay warm!

[upstatehunter]

Mr. Fingerlakesfur seems to have vanished

[Doc]

Well, thinking back to the original outburst, I do have to wonder if this craze to apply QDM, and to individually manage acreage for whatever motives, may be aggravating the hunting access problem, and if so, could the initial statement of thread actually have some validity. Think about it, One of the things inherent in QDM, or any of these self-management activities is that absolute control of hunting pressure and practices has to b in place. To me that means locking up some land with limits on how many hunters can have access. Think about it. Anyone know of any wide open land where the owner is trying to apply any sort of deer management and allows free and unlimited access for hunting. Right or wrong, it does seem like access is impacted by QDM.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well, thinking back to the original outburst, I do have to wonder if this craze to apply QDM, and to individually manage acreage for whatever motives, may be aggravating the hunting access problem, and if so, could the initial statement of thread actually have some validity. Think about it, One of the things inherent in QDM, or any of these self-management activities is that absolute control of hunting pressure and practices has to b in place. To me that means locking up some land with limits on how many hunters can have access. Think about it. Anyone know of any wide open land where the owner is trying to apply any sort of deer management and allows free and unlimited access for hunting. Right or wrong, it does seem like access is impacted by QDM.

100%  That is where hunting is headed and one of the reasons i said hunting will be a high dollar activity. Regardless, I said high fence would become much bigger. When land gets locked down with high dollar leases hunters will have to make choices and pay either way.

 

But you are spot on with this statement. QDM and big deer are the future and most any free open land will be over run and trashed!

[growalot]

That smiley  right there is my biting my tongue...Land was getting locked up years before QDM... hunters. four wheelers, gatherers have no one to blame but them selves for that. Then as time went on land prices and taxes helped to lock up the rest ...lets keep this real please

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That smiley  right there is my biting my tongue...Land was getting locked up years before QDM... hunters. four wheelers, gatherers have no one to blame but them selves for that. Then as time went on land prices and taxes helped to lock up the rest ...lets keep this real please

That sure did start the ball rolling but antlers and inches sealed the deal for the future. QDM is just a feel good statement for TDM for most. They go thru the motions but their bottom line and goal is to make,hold and kill the biggest buck they every laid their eyes on!

[growalot]

This being said from a place of...I never join anything..Just not a group mentality  type of personality .

 

I find, you being a person that has shown a real dislike for blanket statements about deer farms/high fences,it interesting. You would make such a large blanket statement about people that are in QDM or just practice it...there's a word for that...lets say it escapes me for the moment.....

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This being said from a place of...I never join anything..Just not a group mentality  type of personality .

 

I find, you being a person that has shown a real dislike for blanket statements about deer farms/high fences,it interesting. You would make such a large blanket statement about people that are in QDM or just practice it...there's a word for that...lets say it escapes me for the moment.....

You can spew whatever that statement it is you are trying to spew but if you think for one second the reason for high dollar leases, food plots and locking down land is not all for the reason of inches then you are a fool.  

 

I would like to see the number of hunters that wake up every morning at 4am and say..Man i hope a that little crotch horn show up today!

 

Whatever!

[growalot]

I love it when your personality shines...See ,there I was trying to be civil in my statements even polite...lol

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I love it when your personality shines...See ,there I was trying to be civil in my statements even polite...lol

The denser the subject, The brighter the light.

[Five Seasons]

100%  That is where hunting is headed and one of the reasons i said hunting will be a high dollar activity. Regardless, I said high fence would become much bigger. When land gets locked down with high dollar leases hunters will have to make choices and pay either way.

 

But you are spot on with this statement. QDM and big deer are the future and most any free open land will be over run and trashed!

 

you're mixing trophy hunting and just "hunting". when you say high dollar. I strongly disagree with you on where you believe it's heading. I wont disagree that more and more outfitters, ranches, farms etc. will continue to pop up as struggling farmers try to increase their income by leasing land, as more and more generations of farmers have kids who decide it's not for them. But there are literally millions of acres of state and federal land available and even more that is privately owned.

 

Sure, the days of walking to the farm across the street after school may be gone, but you can still put a deer in the freezer with a hand me down gun and some wool pants and worn out boots.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

you're mixing trophy hunting and just "hunting". when you say high dollar. I strongly disagree with you on where you believe it's heading. I wont disagree that more and more outfitters, ranches, farms etc. will continue to pop up as struggling farmers try to increase their income by leasing land, as more and more generations of farmers have kids who decide it's not for them. But there are literally millions of acres of state and federal land available and even more that is privately owned.

 

Sure, the days of walking to the farm across the street after school may be gone, but you can still put a deer in the freezer with a hand me down gun and some wool pants and worn out boots.

 

I have no doubt someone can shoot a baby in about any woodlot they walk into but if you dont think 99% of hunting is not all about killing the biggest buck they can then you must have blinders on. Man, some of you even make the statements that nobody is killing does because everybody is antler crazed but then turn around and say its no about trophies.

 

Do you go out and kill the first antlered buck you see, Fill your tag and call it a season?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have no doubt someone can shoot a baby in about any woodlot they walk into but if you dont think 99% of hunting is not all about killing the biggest buck they can then you must have blinders on. Man, some of you even make the statements that nobody is killing does because everybody is antler crazed but then turn around and say its no about trophies.

 

Do you go out and kill the first antlered buck you see, Fill your tag and call it a season?

I think there is a difference in the allure of having that buck of a lifetime POSSIBLY walking out. It has been a thought of me since I was hunting with my father before I could even carry a gun. Is that the driving force behind why I hunt, no. Do I feel that my season was unsuccessful if it doesn't happen or if I eat my tag, no. It is a sport of possibilities and I can't fault folks for taking a management approach or securing good land to increase the possibilities. Back in the day I have hunted a season and only seen a handful of deer, many times without being lucky enough to draw a doe permit. I would relive those times all again because to me, taking a deer, a good buck or the buck of a lifetime is secondary. But every morning, when I put my hunting boots on the possibility is there and that is what gets me out of bed.

[dhuntley2]

If I didn't own land inches would be completely pointless to me. Everyone's hunting situation and situation in life are not the same.

That being said I am fortunate to own land and to me bucks are all about inches. I can fill the freezer any night in one of our fields with a doe, or any morning right behind the barn. So when it comes to hunting I have the opportunity to be selective on bucks and wait for a big one. You can call this QDM in a way but for us its wanting to shoot a big buck because we can. And I know that very few people have this opportunity with their hunting situation. So if you don't have land any deer surely is a trophy.

But at the same time I can't stand the people that ask to hunt on my land and get pissed when I say no. They are clueless in how much money I spend in seed, fertilizer,fuel, taxes and equipment they just see someone that owns a farm and is greedy with THEIR land. Not to mention the amount of time that gets put into making bedding areas and food plots, I put all this hard work into my land, and I do it for me.

But people need to understand that your hunting situation is nothing like someone else's and any deer to some people is a trophy.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think there is a difference in the allure of having that buck of a lifetime POSSIBLY walking out. It has been a thought of me since I was hunting with my father before I could even carry a gun. Is that the driving force behind why I hunt, no. Do I feel that my season was unsuccessful if it doesn't happen or if I eat my tag, no. It is a sport of possibilities and I can't fault folks for taking a management approach or securing good land to increase the possibilities. Back in the day I have hunted a season and only seen a handful of deer, many times without being lucky enough to draw a doe permit. I would relive those times all again because to me, taking a deer, a good buck or the buck of a lifetime is secondary. But every morning, when I put my hunting boots on the possibility is there and that is what gets me out of bed.

Yes Sir...Your last sentence said it all...The POSSIBILITY...Possibility to kill the biggest deer on the place! Thats whats in your mind, Thats your goal and you hope thats what happens. Yes you may take and settle for less but your driving force is antlers and the bigger the better!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes Sir...Your last sentence said it all...The POSSIBILITY...Possibility to kill the biggest deer on the place! Thats whats in your mind, Thats your goal and you hope thats what happens. Yes you may take and settle for less but your driving force is antlers and the bigger the better!

A goal, but not the most important aspect of hunting....for me

Edited September 22, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Four Season Whitetail's]

A goal, but not the most important aspect of hunting....for me

Oh i agree but when some above say that antler and inches are not the driving force behind hunting and the reason that hunting will be a high dollar venture someday have the blinders on.  Any state land will be trashed and be the unsafest place to be.

[G-Man]

Here is biggest problem with qdm in the us and nys in general, the deer are not yours!! They belong to the,state!!

Way to much you hear my deer, or the neighbor shot my buck, or I work hard for my deer. If you can leave behind the mentality of them being yours and think of them as a general resource. Then qdm makes sense. No one like being told what to do on their own property but that is what the state is doing with the game, deer ,turkey and small game. But who knows your property better than you? What it can hold, produce ,and how you manage it within the confines of the state laws..

That is why you hear people complain about what can be shot, what is legal, ect.

Edited September 22, 2015 by G-Man

[Five Seasons]

I have no doubt someone can shoot a baby in about any woodlot they walk into but if you dont think 99% of hunting is not all about killing the biggest buck they can then you must have blinders on. Man, some of you even make the statements that nobody is killing does because everybody is antler crazed but then turn around and say its no about trophies.

 

Do you go out and kill the first antlered buck you see, Fill your tag and call it a season?

 

I think you're trapped in your own little world. This comes from a self admitted horn junky. 90% of those who buy tags maybe only sit a weekend or 2. They're happy with any deer. They would prefer a nice big buck of course but aren't going to lose sleep. They're not going to do a lot of work on their 1 or 2 ladder stands. They're not buying the latest greatest gear and they're happier having a good drink the night before at camp and sleeping in if it happens.

 

The 10% or less that you're referring too is dedicated and skilled enough that they have no problem shooting nice bucks even on pressured land. So out of 200k tags sold your population is maybe 20k looking for big bucks. These 20k have serious money invested in the sport and they'll be just fine.

 

[Five Seasons]

I think there is a difference in the allure of having that buck of a lifetime POSSIBLY walking out. It has been a thought of me since I was hunting with my father before I could even carry a gun. Is that the driving force behind why I hunt, no. Do I feel that my season was unsuccessful if it doesn't happen or if I eat my tag, no. It is a sport of possibilities and I can't fault folks for taking a management approach or securing good land to increase the possibilities. Back in the day I have hunted a season and only seen a handful of deer, many times without being lucky enough to draw a doe permit. I would relive those times all again because to me, taking a deer, a good buck or the buck of a lifetime is secondary. But every morning, when I put my hunting boots on the possibility is there and that is what gets me out of bed.

 

deer hunting is all about odds. better gear, better land, scent free, more time etc. None are required to shoot a big buck. But they all help.