Land Development & Game

[DirtTime]

This thought came to me reading another thread, and instead of taking that off topic I decided to make a thread about how you feel about land development in NY.

 

What are your thoughts on land development and our game animals?

 

It seems like DEC and other organizations are pushing to severely reduce our deer population. I honestly don't think they want to eradicate deer or any other game from NY. But, that just MHO.

 

As more and more land is bought ( with the original owner making a huge profit ) and used to create housing complexes, malls, and w/e, areas become more and more urban. Animals get used to it and move back in, in some areas, creating an issue for over population of some game as we are not allowed to hunt many of these areas popping up. Also creating a loss of game to those areas, as some game may not come back.

The more land we loose to things like "Barfs Paradise Condominiums: A Quit Community", "Dumblefooks Mall", "Sleezy Daks Casino", and the like, the less land we have to hunt.

 

[Doc]

 I do believe that not only are we losing elbow room, but wildlife suffers with the crazy way that we are over-running the land with development and over-acquisition per person. Not only are there more of us, but we each have learned to take up a bigger footprint on the land.

 

I watch the woods stripped with lawn, macadam and concrete taking its place, and I have to wonder where all the critters will go that used to live there. Well, some will modify their behaviors to live among us, and there will be conflicts that will fall on the DEC to combat.

 

I do think the DEC may be looking down the road and are seeing diminishing hunter numbers and participation, along with increasing deer/human conflicts due to human expansion into natures animal habitat, and with financial interest getting ever more noisy and influential. Perhaps all that accounts for some of the recent panicky acts that look like clumsy attempts at eradication. They are trying to figure out how to control growing herds with shrinking habitat and fewer, and less motivated hunters and how to placate the political forces of the financial interests impacted by deer. I believe that is why they look at bow seasons as wasted harvesting time that has to be severely modified to use more efficient weapons and more drastic harvesting mentalities and methods. I think they are not interested in granting hunters the luxury of challenge anymore. They want that time slot filled with activities aimed at more efficient ways of eliminating the vermin (deer).

[growalot]

Many,many,many years ago...driving to camp I saw the changes happening.The land loss back then and knew it was going to get much worse. So we started buying land....we are now up to 6 separate deeded parcels ranging from 5 to 68 acres each. We decided back then and up to now, what was, is and will be important to us. It wasn't vacations that come and go,with nothing tangible to hold on to.Nor the newest,greatest,staying up with the Jones, anything. It's land...space to do the things we love all year long. It's room to be who we are,not what we have to be to get along with the guy 10ft. away or within normal speech range.

As far as game..Well I will continue to try to improve habitat on our lands for as many and diverse animals that want to make us their home.

Edited December 21, 2015 by growalot

[Curmudgeon]

Animals that adapt to human environments will continue to thrive. Those that can't or won't, don't.

[G-Man]

Idk about huge profits if you factor in years of exorbitant taxes that were paid on. It. As.my father told me if you like the view buy it!

Biggest problem is a suburbanite lives on a 60 x120 ft lot, an see a chance to buy 5 acres for the same price as the building lot and does so, then goes and buys his 4 wheelers and snow machines and rides all over 5 aces is nothing .. so the land owners next door who are being trespassed on by the surrounding 3 to 5 acre lots get fed up and sell and that 100 acre piece gets split up into 3 and 5 acre lots, and the cancer continues to spread out further and further into rural areas.... as for the game they adapt to their surroundings we do not and feel compelled to change it, directly or indirectly.

[Merlot]

Many,many,many years ago...driving to camp I saw the changes happening.The land loss back then and knew it was going to get much worse. So we started buying land....we are now up to 6 separate deeded parcels ranging from 5 to 68 acres each. We decided back then and up to now, what was, is and will be important to us. It wasn't vacations that come and go,with nothing tangible to hold on to.Nor the newest,greatest,staying up with the Jones, anything. It's land...space to do the things we love all year long. It's room to be who we are,not what we have to be to get along with the guy 10ft. away or within normal speech range.

As far as game..Well I will continue to try to improve habitat on our lands for as many and diverse animals that want to make us their home.

Keep up the good work and enjoy it.. I'm in Florida now and typing 15 feet away from neighbor. Rather have 100 acres and do what I please, than live next to people who don't much more than walk a dog and fart.

[Uptown Redneck]

There was an article about how animals are adapting to development in developed areas, the link can be found in "General Chit-chat" under the "more development:" thread concerning Sterling Forest

[Galliform]

There was an article about how animals are adapting to development in developed areas, the link can be found in "General Chit-chat" under the "more development:" thread concerning Sterling Forest

 

I was just reading that one. Here's a link for anyone that wants to see. http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/30768-more-development/

[DirtTime]

There was an article about how animals are adapting to development in developed areas, the link can be found in "General Chit-chat" under the "more development:" thread concerning Sterling Forest

I was aiming at the whole state. Not Just one area.

[Nomad]

I'm all for it, although those who bought building lots off my father in law thinking that the rest of the land will stay undeveloped are getting nervous .

Hey I'll give them right of first refusal .

Can't wait , beach home down south fly out west to kill some critters with our huge profits .

[Doc]

I'm all for it, although those who bought building lots off my father in law thinking that the rest of the land will stay undeveloped are getting nervous .

Hey I'll give them right of first refusal .

Can't wait , beach home down south fly out west to kill some critters with our huge profits .

Who can blame the landowners for converting their primary assets to cash. In the case of farmers their land is their retirement investment. With so many of the farm kids opting for other more lucrative occupations, when it comes time for the farmers to enjoy their golden years, they have only one fund to tap into and cash out and it's a red-hot one. And the smaller the parcels sold, the higher the price per acre. It certainly is no mystery why they sell.

 

And today with autos being so reliable, and the highway system built for 55+ MPH, commuting from rural areas is no longer any big deal. Also even though land prices keep inching up, they are still far lower than acreage near the cities. So the city folks are still being lured out into the country to create the home of their dreams. I can't see how anyone can place blame, it's just a natural evolution of land use. It's just the reality of excess population and the "American Dream".

[G-Man]

The biggest problem is the land being sold is valuable farmland and once it's developed it can not go back to farm able land

[Doc]

There will come a time when future Americans will be wishing they had some of that land back. Hell, I already do when I consider how much of our food comes from countries where the average farmer envies and hates our guts.

[Curmudgeon]

A good thing about my neck of the woods - Amish. The subdivisions of farms has stopped. The Amish buy them whole. They may split a big farm among a couple of families but you don't have a bunch of 20 acre lots.

[DirtTime]

I'm all for it, although those who bought building lots off my father in law thinking that the rest of the land will stay undeveloped are getting nervous .

Hey I'll give them right of first refusal .

Can't wait , beach home down south fly out west to kill some critters with our huge profits .

Snarky comment caught and recognized. Depending on where the land is, people can get a butt load of money for land sold for development. Not hard to figure that out, Google can be used for more then coming here. Just sayin......

 

 

There seems to be a lot more game that can adapt to the new urban areas then we think. The whitetail deer seems to be one of them. Turkey is another. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by ....rob

[Doc]

There seems to be a lot more game that can adapt to the new urban areas then we think. The whitetail deer seems to be one of them. Turkey is another. 

And apparently raccoons, coyotes, skunks and possums and a whole lot of other pests and critters as well.

[DirtTime]

During our drive dropping off Christmas baskets yesterday, I figured I would drive by a few places I used to hunt private land in. 3 of them are now condo complexes, and 2 others said no flat out when I asked about hunting there. One was the same people and he said it was a liability issue and even apologized about it. The other place was a new family and they guy was flat out rude and slammed the door on me.

Driving around those old areas and even doing some state land hunting in an area I haven't been too in a long long time, I have a hard time dealing with so many changes.

Nothing I can do, but it's still sort of saddening If that makes sense.

 

[Uptown Redneck]

As hunter would you grant permission to someone to hunt your land? Expect for close friends/family my answer would be no.

[Uptown Redneck]

A new take on conservation

http://nyti.ms/1Oup6TO

[Doc]

As hunter would you grant permission to someone to hunt your land? Except for close friends/family my answer would be no.

Same here, and the reason is that it is a small chunk of land that is already filled up. We are able to get the number of hunters on the land because we all get together and discuss where we are going to be standing to ensure that no one is cutting another off, and that all hunting set-ups are safe and spaced far enough apart. I cannot deal with organizing the hunting on my land beyond that, and I don't want to deal with the conflicts and potential hazards of just opening it up further and losing all control entirely.

 

I have a feeling that a lot of landowners are in the same boat. I have horror stories from both my father's experiences and my own where a simple act or two of generosity spun out of control to the point where my Dad's driveway began to look like a parking lot with all the hunters being friends and relatives of "friends and relatives of the couple co-workers that he originally gave hunting access to. He didn't know the names of a single one. Finally a chain had to go across the driveway and the people were told to leave and not to come back when they came to the door.

 

I had a similar experience when I looked out the front window of our raised ranch set behind a 1000' deep thicket and watched a drive of 8 redcoats being set up in front of the house. I hot-footed it down and grabbed the ring-leader who turned out to be the brother-in-law of a guy I worked with some 6 years prior. I kind of lost it and left no doubt in their minds that they were to leave immediately and not ever come back. The next weekend was when the posted signs first went up and have remained ever since. 

[DirtTime]

As hunter would you grant permission to someone to hunt your land? Expect for close friends/family my answer would be no.

Probably not, too many people openy admit to be willing to break the laws and regs. I have no issues with being told no. That's just how it goes.

 

Let me elaborate more. The part that was sad was seeing land that used to be good for hunting turned into condo's, and the lack of DEC doing any forestry on state land, except for clearing trails for hikers and cross country skiers.

[Doc]

Let me elaborate more. The part that was sad was seeing land that used to be good for hunting turned into condo's, and the lack of DEC doing any forestry on state land, except for clearing trails for hikers and cross country skiers.

I and several others on this forum have seen a lot of change of this sort, and it is indeed sad. What's even worse is the realization that nothing will ever slow down this hunting land development and "lock-up". It's a process that you can only look at and do nothing about.

[dbHunterNY]

land development definitely hurts game.  unless you're well off money wise you're chopping up acreage.  inherited lands usually get split up and sold off to some extent.  leasing is common and hard for land owners to pass up to pay the bills.  recreational use might be allowed through half a dozen properties but the one guy that owns the key property between them doesn't want any wheels touching his dirt no matter how respectful.  another lives out of town and shows up with 20 friends to hunt and says yea I own the wood lot there so go hunt that.  mean while they own 10% of it but treat things as if they own the whole thing.  worst one that's the hardest to deal with is when extended family poorly uses a property that one of them owns.  they do as they please as if they own it and then the actual owner gets discouraged.  doesn't want to saying anything because family is more important but then doesn't care to use what they pay for as they don't want any drama.  the list is long.