.223 Deer

[Mossberg500Guy]

A .223 is not the ideal choice i would use, I'm not going to say that DEC is the brightest bunch on the block (they aren't) but it is legal to use a .223 in New York for Big Game Hunting and until other wise i'd continue using it if that is the caliber you prefer, anybody against using a .223 should take it to Albany.

[Doc]

I'm with ya... Yet, there isn't a question of whether a .223 "can" get the job done... just whether or not you or I want to be the one doing it. I don't see a problem with it if that's someone else choice and they are confident in their shooting ability.. you could make the same anti .223 arguments for any caliber rifle or archery equipment in the hands of someone that can't shoot. For some guys anything short of a cannon would be considered undergunned

There is no caliber or weapon that absolves the hunter of a responsibility of proficiency. But just because a certain caliber has the capability to kill a deer, doesn't make it a wise choice.

 

That quote that was just posted, says it all ("Don't use a bullet/caliber that works when everything goes right, use one that works when things don't.") , and I think tat thought represents why I made the comment that I didn't understand why people get a kick out of using the smallest caliber possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. And inappropriate as it is, throwing archery into a rifle discussion, I would feel the same about somebody picking up one of those 15# draw fiberglass kid's-bows and trying to deer hunt with it. It just wouldn't make any sense to me. 

[Doc]

A .223 is not the ideal choice i would use, I'm not going to say that DEC is the brightest bunch on the block (they aren't) but it is legal to use a .223 in New York for Big Game Hunting and until other wise i'd continue using it if that is the caliber you prefer, anybody against using a .223 should take it to Albany.

How far are you willing to go with that philosophy. A .22 Hornet is also legal for deer in NYS. Would you advise someone to "continue using it if that is the caliber you prefer"? I think I would be tempted to speak up and try to talk them out of that one....lol. It probably would still be a good idea to take the issue to Albany as well. Frankly, I believe they blew it, but that still does not absolve the hunter from using a bit of common sense when it comes to caliber selection.

[Mossberg500Guy]

How far are you willing to go with that philosophy. A .22 Hornet is also legal for deer in NYS. Would you advise someone to "continue using it if that is the caliber you prefer"? I think I would be tempted to speak up and try to talk them out of that one....lol. It probably would still be a good idea to take the issue to Albany as well. Frankly, I believe they blew it, but that still does not absolve the hunter from using a bit of common sense when it comes to caliber selection.

I agree its not a wise choice to use .22 Hornet or .223 but even after all the agree to disagree the law is there to protect anyone who wants to use any size centerfire caliber they want and nothing will stop that.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Mossberg500Guy

[Mr VJP]

The trouble with changing the law would be eliminating all .22 caliber centerfire rifles from deer hunting.  Using the right bullet, many .22 caliber centerfire rifles are perfectly capable of killing deer effectively.  On the other hand, many of them are not.  They would have to name the rounds that weren't legal to do it right.

 

 

[nyantler]

There is no caliber or weapon that absolves the hunter of a responsibility of proficiency. But just because a certain caliber has the capability to kill a deer, doesn't make it a wise choice.

 

That quote that was just posted, says it all ("Don't use a bullet/caliber that works when everything goes right, use one that works when things don't.") , and I think tat thought represents why I made the comment that I didn't understand why people get a kick out of using the smallest caliber possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. And inappropriate as it is, throwing archery into a rifle discussion, I would feel the same about somebody picking up one of those 15# draw fiberglass kid's-bows and trying to deer hunt with it. It just wouldn't make any sense to me.

#15 is not a legal weight for bow hunting... so it is just as inappropriate to bring that into a discussion about the effectiveness of a legal weapon. If we're talking about the effectiveness of legal weapons based on that weapons chance of wounding and not retrieving an animal... we also need to talk about archery equipment. I would bet more animals are lost with archery equipment than .223. If we're also talking about using a weapon that works when things go right, and when things go wrong... archery equipment in general would be in the same category as a lower caliber bullet in my opinion. So my question earlier was... Why would someone be concerned about one and not the other if it's about effectiveness? I never said I advocated using a .223 for deer... just that I don't see the difference between that and an arrow if the argument about it being more or less ethical than another weapon choice.

[Pygmy]

I agree with Joe...

 

A  ,223 is a MUCH more effective tool for killing deer than any bow at any range, under any conditions.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Pygmy

[Chef]

Very well stated. The question isn't "could it" but rather "should you". What advantages so you gain from using a 223? Unless you're old, a youth, or petite woman that simply can't handle a larger caliber, I think you owe it to the deer to use a larger caliber.

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. But even those people could use a 243 which would still be a better option

[Culvercreek hunt club]

To some of you older members. Didn't there use to be a requirement that a rifle had to be 25 caliber or larger? or was that only pistols? 

[Pygmy]

Culvercreek hunt club, on 06 Jan 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

To some of you older members. Didn't there use to be a requirement that a rifle had to be 25 caliber or larger? or was that only pistols? 

To my knowledge, in areas where rifles were legal, the only requirement was that the cartridge had to be a centerfire.

 

When they first legalized handguns in the southern zone, they had to be .35 caliber or larger.

[johnplav]

A .223 with the correct ammo, and a well placed shot is very effective on most NY whitetail.  Although I prefer a different gun, I would not hesitate to use one of mine.  Like any weapon you may choose, the shot (distance, deer position, etc.) needs to match the capabilities of the weapon, and the hunter.  I for one am glad that NY state doesn't limit the use of .223, especially considering the disdain our legislators seem to have toward the AR platform.  Lets be thankful we can have this discussion. 

[fasteddie]

My gripe in using a 223 is that ,in the right hands it is quite capable of killing deer cleanly . But then Joe Blow hears that someone kills deer with a 223 and thinks it's okay but he can't hit a barn from the inside with the doors closed . Not all shooters are equal if they don't practice a lot . 

 

[nyantler]

My gripe in using a 223 is that ,in the right hands it is quite capable of killing deer cleanly . But then Joe Blow hears that someone kills deer with a 223 and thinks it's okay but he can't hit a barn from the inside with the doors closed . Not all shooters are equal if they don't practice a lot . 

Yeah but that could be said about any weapon in the wrong hands whether we're talking about gun, bow, muzzleloader or crossbow.

[JimMac]

I took out my 223 last yr but didn't see anything , but heard lots of 12ga semi's going bang bang bang bang bang .... did u get it .. nope .... 

[fasteddie]

I took out my 223 last yr but didn't see anything , but heard lots of 12ga semi's going bang bang bang bang bang .... did u get it .. nope .... 

 

I heard minimal shots in 8F and 8H . None of the blasting of shotguns like years ago . 

My 223's are my woodchuck guns . 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yeah out of country hunt $$$$money spent on a fly in and yes he shot it all he had. After flying half way around county to hunt.

 

I see, so because someone travels and spends some money on a hunt, makes it ok to poach because its the only chance to kill the game that they have. Gotcha.

[hunterdan44]

Went on a hunt in Texas a couple of years ago and was one of three hunters and we brought 4 guns. The airlines had used our gun cases as a frisbee and of the four guns all had issues accept my Winchester .223 bolt action. My father ,my son ,and I each shot a whitetail with that gun. No issues and two were one shot kills and one required a finishing shot while it was down. We used standard Winchester factory ammo I believe 55 grain. I wouldn't use a .223 if I had a larger caliber handy but , it will do the job.

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[NYBuckHunter27]

wow this thread went crazy, i guess why take the chance of wounding deer with a .223, guess ill stick with the 30-30. i was just looking for an excuse to use the AR more often....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

wow this thread went crazy, i guess why take the chance of wounding deer with a .223, guess ill stick with the 30-30. i was just looking for an excuse to use the AR more often....

I didn't see many saying NOT to use it. Like a bow or any weapon. There are limitations. If you accept them, understand them and select a suitable bullet then have at it. 

[Tughill Tamer]

I prefer nothing smaller than a 243 I hate do take the chance of just wounding the deer when you done have to

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[Mossberg500Guy]

To be honest i can get good grouping with my shotgun up to 70 yards and I've lost deer with good shots and lots of blood and you cant get much more power than a shotgun

Edited January 11, 2016 by Mossberg500Guy

[Buckmaster7600]

To be honest i can get good grouping with my shotgun up to 70 yards and I've lost deer with good shots and lots of blood and you cant get much more power than a shotgun

How did you know it was a good shot if you lost it?

[Mossberg500Guy]

How did you know it was a good shot if you lost it?

I stated what i said wrong, I meant I've had good shots on deer that ran pretty far and have had deer lost but with good mounts of blood, in reply to FastEddie any caliber could kill a deer with perfect shot placement and even a shotgun with sufficient power could still lose a deer with bad placed shot.

[Doc]

#15 is not a legal weight for bow hunting... so it is just as inappropriate to bring that into a discussion about the effectiveness of a legal weapon. If we're talking about the effectiveness of legal weapons based on that weapons chance of wounding and not retrieving an animal... we also need to talk about archery equipment. I would bet more animals are lost with archery equipment than .223. If we're also talking about using a weapon that works when things go right, and when things go wrong... archery equipment in general would be in the same category as a lower caliber bullet in my opinion. So my question earlier was... Why would someone be concerned about one and not the other if it's about effectiveness? I never said I advocated using a .223 for deer... just that I don't see the difference between that and an arrow if the argument about it being more or less ethical than another weapon choice.

Of course it's illegal, and that makes my point exactly. An underpowered weapon is inappropriate regardless of whether it's a gun or a bow. And my point is also made that I am not concerned any differently about ill-equipped bowhunters than ill-equipped gunners. But the discussion here is in fact about the .223 as a deer hunting weapon, is it not? As I said before, I would never go bow hunting with flu-flu fletched arrows and field tips, and the same reasoning makes me understand that there really is no reason to be deer hunting with an ill-advised caliber rifle. I think the flu-flu/field tip analogy should make it plain why I don't use those in my deer hunting, and why I don't use a .223 for deer hunting.

 

[Tughill Tamer]

When you bow hunt you try to use the most leathel combination you can,the best bow you can afford,the most leathel and accurate broadheads you can find and draw the most weight that you can comfortably and accurately handle that's all you can do,when it comes to the 223 for deer you have better options

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