OK guy's Call your lawmakers

[nyantler]

And so we see what we all have already stated... bowhunters think only about themselves... if hunters chose to leave traditional bowhunting for compounds or compounds for crossbows or crossbows for hammers.. what's the difference as long as they're hunting... I will still bowhunt with my recurve during the bow season with crossbow hunters out there or not.. the season doesn't belong to me.. the hunting experiences do.

[sits in trees]

There is.

You only asked for one example, but I'll give you another.

2 years after VA legalized crossbows, the number of bow permits they sold had dropped by about 30%.

Crossbows steal bowhunters.  How does that help bowhunting?

Are you sure it was 30%? ??? ??

State of Virgina pre and post crossbow numbers.

2003-2004 Vertical Archery licenses sold = 62072

2004-2005 Vertical Archery licenses sold = 61610

The first year for full inclusion.

2005-2006 Vertical Archery licenses sold = 54306

2006-2007 Vertical Archery licenses sold = 51647

2007-2008 Vertical Archery licenses sold = 48122

First year for full inclusion.

2005-2006 Crossbow licenses sold = 15320

2006-2007 Crossbow licenses sold = 20840

2007-2008 Crossbow licenses sold = 22243

It is estimated that about 7000 vertical hunters decided to try them out in the first year. And it is estimated that there are still about 10,000 using them to this day.

Total number of Archery licenses sold both groups included.

2003-2004 = 62072

2004-2005 = 61610

2005-2006 = 69626

2006-2007 = 72487

2007-2008 = 70365

Harvest numbers from both bow groups for the same years.

......../Vertical/Crossbow/Total Harvested

2003-2004 16538 596 17134

2004-2005 16055 802 16857

2005-2006 17368 5005 22373

2006-2007 17160 7069 24229

2007-2008 17335 8549 25904

The 2005-06 season is when the crossbow was fully included.

The numbers prior are crossbow harvests by disabled

permit holders only.

The 8549 deer harvested in the 2007-2008 season with a

crossbow account for 3% of the total deer harvested in the

state of Virginia.

Total number of deer harvested from all weapons and seasons

statewide in Virginia.

2003-2004 = 237,035

2004-2005 = 221,492

2005-2006 = 215,082

2006-2007 = 223,775

2007-2008 = 241,576

once again good hard FACT that the sky will not fall with the full inclusion of crossbows. it's been proven in every state that surrounds us yet the anti crossbow guys still just choose to ignore the facts. funny the antis are always the first that want you to produce fact and then when you do they just blow it off as some kind of flawed theory anyway?

choosing to ignore fact makes one IGNORant

[arrowflinger]

At the expense of bowhunters?...and there in lies the problem....we are hunters...the attitude to seperate us so totally bu what we hunt with will hurt the sport more than any included weapon ever could

So bowhunters should just roll over and let their sport dwindle and diminish?

Why should bowhunters have to sacrifice for crossbows?

Is bowhunting not worth protecting?

Thank god for NYB,representing and protecting the interests of ALL NY bowhunters.

[arrowflinger]

the anti crossbow guys still just choose to ignore the facts. funny the antis are always the first that want you to produce fact and then when you do they just blow it off as some kind of flawed theory anyway?

choosing to ignore fact makes one IGNORant

Ummmmm......the data proves the point I was making.

Duh.

[wztirem]

I got news for you; NYB only represents a small minority of NY bowhunters.

[WNYBuckHunter]

At the expense of bowhunters?...and there in lies the problem....we are hunters...the attitude to seperate us so totally bu what we hunt with will hurt the sport more than any included weapon ever could

So bowhunters should just roll over and let their sport dwindle and diminish?

Why should bowhunters have to sacrifice for crossbows?

Is bowhunting not worth protecting?

Thank god for NYB,representing and protecting the interests of ALL NY bowhunters.

What are bowhunters sacrificing exactly? Sounds to me like there are more participants in archery season. Why is that a bad thing?

[arrowflinger]

What are bowhunters sacrificing exactly? Sounds to me like there are more participants in archery season. Why is that a bad thing?

I am not interested in more "participants."  I am interested in more bowhunters.

[SteveB]

I got news for you; NYB only represents a small minority of NY bowhunters.

You think about 1% is a small minority - around 2000 out of 200,000?

I think in the science community this would be considered statistically insignificant

[sits in trees]

the anti crossbow guys still just choose to ignore the facts. funny the antis are always the first that want you to produce fact and then when you do they just blow it off as some kind of flawed theory anyway?

choosing to ignore fact makes one IGNORant

Ummmmm......the data proves the point I was making.

Duh.

DUUUUHH, proves that sky has fallin HUH?

[sits in trees]

What are bowhunters sacrificing exactly? Sounds to me like there are more participants in archery season. Why is that a bad thing?

I am not interested in more "participants."  I am interested in more bowhunters.

first of all may i ask who are you to decide who a bowhunter should be, what qualifications or reasoning will you be using to decide who is worthy of heading into the woods to hunt deer. and i'm sure you can tell me with all certainty that all the guy's who grab vertical bows and head out to the woods today are all Robin Hood's ehh right?

and you somehow claim to be a hunter, yea i might buy that, but you are certainly not a hunter who cares about the future of our sport, "participants" are exactly what we need in the state of NY and if your not seeing that i don't know what to tell you.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I didn't hear any loud and focused debate from the shotgun hunters that grew up that way and only knew and prefered that. the addition of rifles gave a clear advantage over the shotguns. both firearms.....similiar to our discussion here.....both archery equipment with many beleiving the crossbow holds and advantage over the other archery equipment.

It is not surprising that gun hunters wanted extra advantage.

But, according to surveys, there is no desire for crossbows from bowhunters.

I would bet that those that segregate and consider them selves  "bowhunters" would oppose it. those that bow hunt and consider them selves hunters would not have the problem. I can only hope that the number that are in the first group is not that high. I know you took offense when the previous post called your attitud elitest but you have to be able to see how a position such as this can come across this way. Those that voice the opposition seem to have this in common with the posts you have made and it seems to be a common thread with NYB members.

You commented that NYB was fighting to preserve bowhunting.....not sure of the exact quote....I would thinnk that a group that has it's roots in NY's hunting history would want to see it fostered....as a whole.

Does anyone know the exact number of members in NYB. I am curious how it relates to the entire bow hunting licenses issued?

[G-Man]

I wonder how many people if allowed to try crossbow would eventually want to try bow? I know a lot of people that used rifle and a began looking for a harder method and switched to muzzleloader,and then onto pistol.. some even to blk powder pistol.. maybe instead of trying to stop the crossbow they shoould embrace it as a learning step to becoming an elite archer??? I am sure some people will do just that.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I wonder how many people if allowed to try crossbow would eventually want to try bow? I know a lot of people that used rifle and a began looking for a harder method and switched to muzzleloader,and then onto pistol.. some even to blk powder pistol.. maybe instead of trying to stop the crossbow they shoould embrace it as a learning step to becoming an elite archer??? I am sure some people will do just that.

Great point G-man. I have shot both and I would never take the crossbow up to hunt with over my compound....as long as I was able to draw it. I have more confidence in my compound and it is by far smoother and much quieter.

[arrowflinger]

I got news for you; NYB only represents a small minority of NY bowhunters.

You think about 1% is a small minority - around 2000 out of 200,000?

I think in the science community this would be considered statistically insignificant

LOL....membership is a small minority.

But politically, NYB speaks for all 200,000 NY bowhunters....whether you like it or not.

[arrowflinger]

DUUUUHH, proves that sky has fallin HUH?

Noone was trying to make the point that the sky was falling.

It proves the point that crossbows cannabalize bowhunters.

Please try to pay attention to the coonversation.

[arrowflinger]

I would bet that those that segregate and consider them selves  "bowhunters" would oppose it. those that bow hunt and consider them selves hunters would not have the problem.

You would bet wrong...it was ALL NY sportsmen, not just bowhunters.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I would bet that those that segregate and consider them selves  "bowhunters" would oppose it. those that bow hunt and consider them selves hunters would not have the problem.

You would bet wrong...it was ALL NY sportsmen, not just bowhunters.

If you are refering to the survey again...I can't tell....ALL in not a truthful statement

[arrowflinger]

I wonder how many people if allowed to try crossbow would eventually want to try bow?

It hasn't happened to any significant level in Ohio.....growth in crossbows extends over vertical bows each year.

[SteveB]

I got news for you; NYB only represents a small minority of NY bowhunters.

You think about 1% is a small minority - around 2000 out of 200,000?

I think in the science community this would be considered statistically insignificant

LOL....membership is a small minority.

But politically, NYB speaks for all 200,000 NY bowhunters....whether you like it or not.

No - actually they speak for the handful at the top who run the org as a top down monarchy/dictatorship. That's why they can sign up 20 to 30 new members at every event and continue to have overall memberships decline.

[arrowflinger]

If you are refering to the survey again...I can't tell....ALL in not a truthful statement

The survey was sent out to ALL license holders, not just bowhunters.

[sits in trees]

I got news for you; NYB only represents a small minority of NY bowhunters.

You think about 1% is a small minority - around 2000 out of 200,000?

I think in the science community this would be considered statistically insignificant

LOL....membership is a small minority.

But politically, NYB speaks for all 200,000 NY bowhunters....whether you like it or not.

yea for now but the pressures on and the writing is on the walls for your happy little group and if you guy's don't change your opinions on things you will certainly be short lived, UUHH lets see you guy's have been around soooo long, what is it 1995 or something, hardly a fart in the chronological time frame of New Yorks long hunting tradition.

[arrowflinger]

lets see you guy's have been around soooo long, what is it 1995 or something, hardly a fart in the chronological time frame of New Yorks long hunting tradition.

Its pretty obvious that you crossbow guys don't give a crap about NY bowhunting tradition.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If the survey you have refered to is the DEC 2009 survey...let me recap

53% believe crossbows shoule be legalized

that includes 53% that identified them selves as bowhunters

and 54% of other hunters. there was only 32% of bowhunters that said it shouldn't be legalized

This held consistent for the specific question on wheter it should be included when any bow was a legal implement

53% legal for bowhunting

When questioned on use only 21% of bowhunters said they definitely would not use one. 43% were in some form of YES

Was this the survey you were refering to?

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deersurvppt2010.pdf

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If you are refering to the survey again...I can't tell....ALL in not a truthful statement

The survey was sent out to ALL license holders, not just bowhunters.

I have been hunting for over 30 years and I have never been sent one. I don't know anyone who has

[sits in trees]

I wonder how many people if allowed to try crossbow would eventually want to try bow?

It hasn't happened to any significant level in Ohio.....growth in crossbows extends over vertical bows each year.

and why don't you give us your reasoning for why thats soooo bad. last time i drove thru Ohio the sky was still blue and yea it was still up there   and the numbers are still pretty close, it's only been in the last year or two that crossbows have slightly overtaken vert bow permits, and crossbows have been legal in Ohio for 30 years...