Pine Tree Options

[Zag]

Im looking for opinions on what type of pine trees to plant.

 

So im looking to convert about 8 acres into a major bedding area. Its already used during all months except winter because its light on cover/thermal cover. Its on a gradual slope with no ditches or ridges. Area consists of smaller diameter maple and ash trees, others include autumn olive I think, goldenrod and some type of thorn bushes. Its a great area to do this and its also located towards the center of the this block of woods.

I'm gonna hinge the heck out of it and want to plant small clumps of pine trees through out the 8 acres for bedding cover, maybe 5 or 6 per clump to support different doe groups. I think I want something that will have good overhead cover but provides enough sun light for native grasses and or goldenrod to grow under each clump of trees.

 

If you have any pics of your pines id like to see.

[growalot]

So you plan on cutting lower limbs as they grow? That could defeat the thermal purpose of planting,that said,from experience here and camp..Norway and long needles pine.You would need to protect wht.pine heavily.Expect buck damage. Camp has a small field of golden rod and bramble that naturally grows red and a few wht. pine. Deer hammer them though. They leave wht. Spruce alone.That is eating...buck kill even little ones rubbing.

Norway grow fast and huge with long low hanging branches.They provide a lot of cover and deer hang in them during snow and cold spells...but little will grow under them.

[growalot]

You can see the home plantings and the big Norway on neighbors in several of my food plot pics.

[RoadKill44]

I can't vouch for tree type but back in the day (30 years ago maybe) the family planted pines acquired through DEC tree program. The trees went in in rows spacing then about 10 feet apart. after a few years there was dense growth and the deer loved it. But then the pines took over and nothing else grew under the canopy. it wasn't long and the deer stopped coming.

 

Several years later on a second planting the guys just took off in several directions for a random planting. Those trees self incorporated other brush around them and the deer love it still today (approx. 20 years later).

 

About 8 years ago a third random planting did well for 2 years. Then a deep snow winter happened and nearly every young tree was nipped down to nothing.

 

I'm not sure this will help you except a random planting with wide spread spacing worked best for us. As far as type of tree you might consider something the deer do not like and rely on the cover only aspect with the natural brush around them providing the browse.

[growalot]

If thermal and wind coverage is what you seek think about more of a manageable hedge type...this way you can periodically go in and control growth. Now with some of my wht. Spruce I lopped the tops off...it thicken the base and slowed Sun stealing hieght. Also research which in NYS are now susceptible to kill off due to bugs or disease. DEC should have that info or Google.

[growalot]

Zag, Hope this link helps you in your decision:

 

http://www.treesforme.com/ny_pinus.html

[Zag]

I can't vouch for tree type but back in the day (30 years ago maybe) the family planted pines acquired through DEC tree program. The trees went in in rows spacing then about 10 feet apart. after a few years there was dense growth and the deer loved it. But then the pines took over and nothing else grew under the canopy. it wasn't long and the deer stopped coming.

 

Several years later on a second planting the guys just took off in several directions for a random planting. Those trees self incorporated other brush around them and the deer love it still today (approx. 20 years later).

 

About 8 years ago a third random planting did well for 2 years. Then a deep snow winter happened and nearly every young tree was nipped down to nothing.

 

I'm not sure this will help you except a random planting with wide spread spacing worked best for us. As far as type of tree you might consider something the deer do not like and rely on the cover only aspect with the natural brush around them providing the browse.

Exactly why ill go with clumps, or other block has couple acre block of mature pines, ground hasn't seen day light in 30yrs at least.

[Zag]

So you plan on cutting lower limbs as they grow? That could defeat the thermal purpose of planting,that said,from experience here and camp..Norway and long needles pine.You would need to protect wht.pine heavily.Expect buck damage. Camp has a small field of golden rod and bramble that naturally grows red and a few wht. pine. Deer hammer them though. They leave wht. Spruce alone.That is eating...buck kill even little ones rubbing.

Norway grow fast and huge with long low hanging branches.They provide a lot of cover and deer hang in them during snow and cold spells...but little will grow under them.

If Norway than yes id cut the really low limbs as it matures. I wouldn't with the white would I? I guess I'm more concerned with overhead cover. This area gets a good amount of sunlight and I think once I hinge the heck out of it and plant these clumps it will be a gold mine of tall goldenrod that can block some wind and maybe ill try some native grass seed.

[Galliform]

For whatever it's worth, on my property the deer prefer hemlock, especially after we get snow on. They bed under it and it is a favorite browse item once winter hits and easy food sources dry up. I don't know if it's ideal for your situation, and one must be careful to check if there is HWA in your area (hemlock wooly adelgid) http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7250.html

[Zag]

For whatever it's worth, on my property the deer prefer hemlock, especially after we get snow on. They bed under it and it is a favorite browse item once winter hits and easy food sources dry up. I don't know if it's ideal for your situation, and one must be careful to check if there is HWA in your area (hemlock wooly adelgid) http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7250.html

Your right, we have multiple hemlocks on our other block. I love hanging a stand in them, i shot my 8pt during bow out of one. HWA was reportely spotted in Canandaiuga and thats why i bypassed them.

[Lawdwaz]

Zag.....where will you get the trees from?

[Zag]

Not sure yet, I found a place in MI that I can get in the 2-3ft or 3-4ft, also a place out of PA. DEC are just to small, im way to impatient to watch those little seedlings take off.

[First-light]

So you plan on cutting lower limbs as they grow? That could defeat the thermal purpose of planting,that said,from experience here and camp..Norway and long needles pine.You would need to protect wht.pine heavily.Expect buck damage. Camp has a small field of golden rod and bramble that naturally grows red and a few wht. pine. Deer hammer them though. They leave wht. Spruce alone.That is eating...buck kill even little ones rubbing.

Norway grow fast and huge with long low hanging branches.They provide a lot of cover and deer hang in them during snow and cold spells...but little will grow under them.

Like Grow said White Spruce are good and the deer don't bother them. I planted a load of the 8 years ago, pencil size seedlings from Saratoga nursery,some are now 7-8' tall. Good luck with your choice. Grow none of my trees were ever rubbed. Then again there is so much more around to rub maybe that is why??

[growalot]

delete

Edited February 14, 2016 by growalot

[growalot]

I got hit hard again this year but there were a lot of buck around...they took out many volunteer pine and spruce plus apples,a few maple,concolor,one persimmon, sassafras, and a cherry. Can't wrap them all. Though all things considered...it is what I work for,so senseless to complain about .....too much that is

[Dom]

Hemlocks sound to be the best for cover I am no tree expert but I myself would plant spruce they seem to take a heavier snow load then the hemlock.One other thing you mentioned is having alot of ash trees not sure I would hinge cut them they are/have been and is the best Fire wood depending on size you can offset the cost of pines buy selling them.

[Lawdwaz]

 Though all things considered...it is what I work for,so senseless to complain about .....too much that is

 

Hence the handle...............................

[G-Man]

For the cover you describe, the choice is white spruce.. it can tolerate some shade, if you were to plant norway you would loose a lot to shade.,white pine will be eaten and rubbed by buck and it does not retain lower limbs as it grows.. which eliminates all other pine, thermal cover requires low limbs.

Your desire to not do a plantation planting also pushes toward white spruce . As for having brush and Grass grow under them thermal cover would dissappear. Clumps of 5 to 7 trees 10 ft apart perhaps mixed with oak or beach would be the best planting.

[Zag]

The one thing I love about the hemlocks it the over head cover yet you can easily get underneath it where as these other id just have to maintain the lower limbs. Am I right or way off?

[dbHunterNY]

some like spruce grow about anywhere.  one thing I'd do is contact your county soil and water department to see what soil maps say is in your area and then plant conifers that'll do well in that soil.  a mixture of high and low growth is probably good.  deer like to see a little but need somewhat lower hanging branches for thermal cover.  keep in mind some species of firs and cedars the deer will decimate before it gets established.  you're probably not tenting/fencing everyone for protection either.  you can mix some of the browsed species in and protect a them limited amount until they're established.  then as wind or weather opens up canopy near them they'll naturally spread and provide food with seedlings.

[G-Man]

The one thing I love about the hemlocks it the over head cover yet you can easily get underneath it where as these other id just have to maintain the lower limbs. Am I right or way off?

The problem is hemlock is they are preferd winter food source and hard to get established, while I agree they do provide great winter cover and food getting them that big is the problem. Not to mention disease that affects them now Edited February 23, 2016 by G-Man

[growalot]

There isn't a big problem with deer under Norway..the only problem with them is size...they are simply huge...just look at some of my plot pics..those are Norway behind and across the street from my white spruce.

Edited February 23, 2016 by growalot

[First-light]

Here is a picture of the seedling White Spruce we planted. This was back in 2007. I took this picture over the weekend, same trees just 8 years later. Bought from saratoga nursery.

[Rockspek]

This won't answer your question but... I was once told by an old man that "they won't grow if you don't plant them".  I know trees can self propagate but they sure get a bump start if you plant them.  Do you know anyone with a mature pine forest that is putting out seedlings?  See if you can transplant some.  

[Curmudgeon]

I have a small patch of old Scotch pine the deer love for thermal cover (abandoned Christmas trees). There are no lower branches. They move in and out of it during cold spells. It helps that it is in a low spot out of the wind. I cut down a few each year for them to eat for those times when it is hard to move about.