Anterless Only!!

[gjs4]

It brought a tear to my eye to see a few posters actually called out the dec for not having likely means or results to determine doe numbers. IMO- it will stay this way until the big - oops it's broken speech when numbers are crashed and coyotes move even further into lawns.

I love some of the crossbow quotes. Let's bring Ohio stats in LOL. Try a one week gun season here and most of the pumpkin fraternity will have the heart attack they've been on the verge of anyway. Here is your prince crossbow folks- you want crossbows to compensate for the crappy gun season you're running from.... just to then make bow season the same for the same reasons.

If the dec really wanted doe numbers down the sz gun season is always the answer- earn a buck, extra tags, get out of trespassing free vouchers....whatever. As taunted above w crossbows- if the early ml goes (and I think the clues are there) the repercussions w regard to pressure will lower the archery doe take even more.....and then the gun guys will be upset about that too

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[stoneam2006]

It brought a tear to my eye to see a few posters actually called out the dec for not having likely means or results to determine doe numbers. IMO- it will stay this way until the big - oops it's broken speech when numbers are crashed and coyotes move even further into lawns.

I love some of the crossbow quotes. Let's bring Ohio stats in LOL. Try a one week gun season here and most of the pumpkin fraternity will have the heart attack they've been on the verge of anyway. Here is your prince crossbow folks- you want crossbows to compensate for the crappy gun season you're running from.... just to then make bow season the same for the same reasons.

If the dec really wanted doe numbers down the sz gun season is always the answer- earn a buck, extra tags, get out of trespassing free vouchers....whatever. As taunted above w crossbows- if the early ml goes (and I think the clues are there) the repercussions w regard to pressure will lower the archery doe take even more.....and then the gun guys will be upset about that too

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I'll take a few of those get out free cards I know some sweet spots you could hammer the doe in....lol

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[G-Man]

Well think about this doe only in problem.areas.. so go shoot doe. All the bucks age a year.. so bigger bucks will be there the following year. Oh didn't take enough doe again another year of doe only...more buck to grow up.. finally hunters wake up and killed enough doe , now they open it up for buck lots of big mature bucks around... oh but wait you can only hunt this area if you killed doe previous years.. trophy management at its best...lmao

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I also don't believe an early gun or ML season is the answer because the loud report of those weapons will force the deer nocturnal even faster. The crossbow's huge advantage over a compound/recurve/longbow of not needing to draw with groups of deer in close doesn't seem to be grasped or understood by many here. How many times have you been busted when you drew your bow on a group of antlerless deer without getting a shot? How many times has that shot, if taken resulted in a missed or wounded deer? There is less worry of that with a crossbow, which can be slowly moved into firing position. Any prey animal is naturally tuned to pick up quick, threatening motions, like a draw, but slow motions usually go unnoticed.

 

Should swing out by me. The amount of shooting near the property and on the property I hunt for the September goose season is more than any shooting during gun, and we don't see the "flip a switch" to nocturnal behavior.  Add in the other  small game hunting and I see quite a bit of Pre and early October shooting anyways. 

[nyantler]

Seriously, it makes a lot of sense to remove the breeding segment of the deer producers if the object is to eliminate as many deer as possible. On the other hand, the discussions about what numbers the deer are currently at and what those numbers should be become a much more serious and intense discussion when such slash and burn tactics of population cutting are used.

Nothing else really matters...Without knowing the true numbers nothing worth while can ever be accomplished. The present day thoughtless knee jerk ideas are only further complicating things.

[jjb4900]

Should swing out by me. The amount of shooting near the property and on the property I hunt for the September goose season is more than any shooting during gun, and we don't see the "flip a switch" to nocturnal behavior.  Add in the other  small game hunting and I see quite a bit of Pre and early October shooting anyways. 

yeah, I would think that bowhunters leave a very small "footprint" in the woods compared to other activities....

[Five Seasons]

What I meant was, "in range and capability" of the bolt or arrow. Not in ease of use. It's getting very hard for me to draw and hold my compound bow. But I can shoot my crossbow easily. But the "performance of the projectile" is similar.

Settle down there big guy. I'm with ya on the crossbow issue.

Here's what I believe. As far as capabilities I will agree. There are compound shooters out west shooting out to 100 yards and there are crossbows capable as well. The difference is that one takes years of practice and the other a table, bipod and scope.

[stoneam2006]

Here's what I believe. As far as capabilities I will agree. There are compound shooters out west shooting out to 100 yards and there are crossbows capable as well. The difference is that one takes years of practice and the other a table, bipod and scope.

Not true....I've shot at least 10 diffetent xbow in last few years have yet to see 100 yards shot out of any....50 sure 100 nope...not without tons of practice and knowing your bow..... just like compound

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[Larry]

There is only 2 reasons why the 2 week doe only did not work in those WMU’s. 1 it wasn’t that we were not willing to kill does. You can’t kill what you can’t get to. The key word is ACCESS. 2 We chose to sit out the 2 weeks. That’s it

[G-Man]

yeah, I would think that bowhunters leave a very small "footprint" in the woods compared to other activities....

That would be nice , bUT I've seen way to many hanging stands, trimming lanes,just lighting a fire at camp slamming doos at camp or trucks ,scouting by atv right before the bow opening. I think they kill activity themselves and want to blame it on others..

[G-Man]

There is only 2 reasons why the 2 week doe only did not work in those WMU’s. 1 it wasn’t that we were not willing to kill does. You can’t kill what you can’t get to. The key word is ACCESS. 2 We chose to sit out the 2 weeks. That’s it

So you have access for buck but chose to sit out and not kill doe? How is that lack of access? Unless you just travel to the area and hope someone let's you hunt.. it failed because people decided they didn't want to have to pass up a shooter buck while hunting for doe...and the fact bow success is less than 10%...

[Larry]

not me I'm not giving up any chance to hunt I could of cared less. I did hunt those 2 weeks. I did find it funny that guys would sit out those 2 weeks then go up in there stand on the 15th and kill the first doe that walks by.Then say I didn’t hunt those 2 week because they didn’t want to scare any bucks they couldn't shoot.

[Five Seasons]

Not true....I've shot at least 10 diffetent xbow in last few years have yet to see 100 yards shot out of any....50 sure 100 nope...not without tons of practice and knowing your bow..... just like compound

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Posted this a few times now

[stoneam2006]

Posted this a few times now

That's fine but that is not a "out of box" set up and doesn't say it didn't take tons of practice. I can hit a target at 100 yards with my 9mm Pistol doesn't mean that everyone can....and I would be willing to bet in the same amt of shots I could hit a target at 100 yards with my vert or xbow as I bet most could if ever shot verts to any extent

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[Five Seasons]

You're grasping at straws buddy, that's a bipod off a bench with a scope. My wife could make that shot.

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[stoneam2006]

You're grasping at straws buddy, that's a bipod off a bench with a scope. My wife could make that shot.

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I'll bring mine over anytime and if you can hit 100 I'll admit your right.....but not gonna happen you have to hold over so far to get that distance....my xbow arrow drops much much faster than my vert does

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[SteveB]

You're grasping at straws buddy, that's a bipod off a bench with a scope. My wife could make that shot.

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Post the video of her. 1st time at the range and start at 100.

Should be easy.

After all, the bipod, bench and scope make the shot.

[G-Man]

Yep. Just need the deer to stand still while you set up on. Bench, range it , and pray it doesn't move before bolt gets there...

[G-Man]

Thats nothing! https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DUCOn2HkJJt8&ved=0ahUKEwiE5aaC5-nLAhXIOCYKHVh5CWYQtwIIGzAA&usg=AFQjCNF0SPYXEZQPpm9ThpxairefRSqlUg&sig2=Eu6uq87MdBkCsXEbh6H_XA

[Larry]

Hey I made 100yd shot twice in a row on a deer target in the kill zone it’s not that hard to do. Doesn’t mean I would every shoot at a deer that far. Oh forgot to mention food was involved if I made the shot I got a free lunch.  

[buckman4c]

I wouldn't claim to know all of the seasons and regs in NY but I can relate what Pa has done over the years. First of all access is a problem in every State but Pa has incorporated some programs which get hunters on to private land. There called CO-OPS. Essentially a land owner is compensated for allowing hunters on their property. It has opened many areas to hunting.

 

  Secondly, expanded opportunities for doe harvesting. Some time ago AR was implemented statewide along with an aggressive approach to harvesting more doe. When the program began, doe tags were "allocated" (you had to apply) but the number was relatively high in most areas of the State. Most hunters who applied in a timely fashion received (1) doe tag and in some areas you could get (2) or more. Then what they did was allowed hunters to harvest a doe during any season, all season long to include rifle season. Initially this program was very well accepted by hunters because after a couple of seasons they began seeing and harvesting larger bucks. However, much controversy followed when deer sightings on a whole declined because of the aggressive doe harvesting.

 

  Thirdly, crossbow was permitted in Pa a few years back and archery participation increased as did the kill. As would be expected with more hunters you will kill more deer. It wasn't however aimed specifically for killing more doe but as another means for hunters to hunt. I use a crossbow during our late muzzleloader (flintlock only) season when facing inclement weather. The crossbow has less effective range than a muzzleloader but is clearly more reliable in bad weather than the finicky flintlock.

 

  Back to the second point- Currently, the Game Commission has reduced opportunities in rifle season to harvest a doe (fewer days in rifle season for doe in most management areas). This has been contrary to recommendations made by Biologist who based their pop. control on the number of tags issued for each unit to kill (1) doe and the goals of the unit. Unfortunately, as anywhere politics often interfere. What we do have in Pa for "high" deer population areas like around Philly and Pitt. is "special" regulation areas. These areas are to address overpopulation in our more human populated areas with expanded opportunities for hunters. Typically longer seasons with anything but a rifle (safety issue). They also permit baiting in these locations. We also have a muzzleloader (in-line or flintlock) doe ONLY season in mid-October and a "Senior/Junior" rifle hunt for a few days in October for doe ONLY across the State. Again expanded opportunity for harvesting of doe. The impact on overall populations from these hunts is very low. We also have what is called a DMAP doe tag. These are issued to private land owners by acreage and allows them to make their own decision on how populations are controlled. Our State Forests are regulated by DCNR and they will also issue DMAP tags for very specific locations on their properties to public land hunters to harvest a doe during any season.

 

  Lastly, and most interestingly. Penn State University is currently monitoring (radio collared) deer in several study areas. One part of the study is survival rates of those deer. What I find most interesting is the harvest rate by hunters is VERY low. Most of the deer thus far have died by other means than by the hands of hunters. Another interesting point is, the study area with "broken" terrain has a higher kill rate by hunters than our big woods areas. Although the kill rate is still rather low, this tells me deer are more likely to be found and killed in locations that have more obvious food sources available, less wooded acreage to hide and more hunting pressure. The unfortunate side of this study is it clearly shows the ability of deer to avoid us and our inability to kill them. They don't go "nocturnal" as many believe which makes it even more difficult to swallow. In closing, if a State wanted to reduce a doe population, the best answer based on what I've seen to this point is expanded opportunity for hunters and an accepted mentality by hunters that killing doe is just as important as killing a buck. Controlling populations involves killing both sexes but emphasis should be on females.

 

  I will admit NY is very different in many ways from Pa but probably the most difficult thing to predict is winter weather and the deer kill that follows. We don't have anywhere near the impact of winter kill as you do in NY. I imagine management decisions would be much more difficult to make with this in mind.

[G-Man]

Buckman4c, yes what you say is true but there is one huge difference, pa has a game comission thay just deals with game and fame laws and enforcement, ny has a dec that has to regulate, air and water pollution emissions from every factory, school, has to over see and do toxic clean ip of superfine sites and brown fields, run and check on endangered species , run amd manage state land, besides trying to manage game... notice I put manage game last on the list as that is where it falls in priority order.

Lack of staff and no right to hunt in nys is the biggest problem, 2 or maybe 3 game wardens for entire counties.. how can you effectively monitor game and enforce laws.. when something is happening 25 miles or more from where an officer is?

[buckman4c]

G-Man,

  I did not know that.

 

  It's unfortunate and something we(hunters) in Pa have been fighting against happening here for some time. So far so good.

[G-Man]

We do not even have right to hunt in this state and do not have a season until the legislators vote on it.... ny is messed up

[chas0218]

Well seeing how the xbow is the save all to the herd population, why not just make all of gun season anterless only there that will surely fix the problem taking the gun part from the xbow and the ability of a firearm. 

 

I guess I should put the kool aid down now.