No Till Plantings..

[LET EM GROW]

Has anyone ever tried no till plantings or experimented with them? No till meaning, no Ground working/breaking equipment. Ive been doing alot of reading on how this is healthier for the soil from not exposing it to air and such. Makes sense to me, but ive been seeing alot of successes with food plots where no tillage is needed. (small seed anyway)

 

I tested this method, with an acre of Double Beam Brassicas this year where i sprayed the plot in Early May, then again in Early July in hopes to use the dead vegetation as cover for germinating seed. August 1st, i spread the seed. I wanted to get a roller on it and embed the seed into the soil as best as possible but my equipment broke down. So i left the seed on top of the soil but under the dead grass/weeds. They were calling for several good rains the following weekend and i had good soil openings from killing vegetation off so i took a chance.  As of August 12 the seedlings are now 2-3" tall. I am looking forward to these results, I did 2 other same blend plots with a disc and roller and they all look the same, Maybe a touch taller in the rolled plots. 

 

My buddy also did this with his plots, in 8F. since he does not have much equipment for his quad, and the acreage he was looking to do. He mowed down several acres(between 3 plots) with a push mower, followed by a spraying of roundup to each, then seeded and rolled over several times. He got a rain the next day and his seeds are now up about 2" as well. 

 

Just curious if anyone else does this, and if not, if there was a reason why. I know seed to soil contact is probably a little better with working the soil. But this kind of seemed liek the same concept as seeding your yard where after seeding we put "hay down over top of the seed" but just curious. Thanks in advance.. 

[Nomad]

The farm I hunt has done some ,no till beans . I only know this because I often ask what's going to be the fields by my spot. I can ask how it went , I know nothing about farming .

i know the field was small maybe 20 acres, they planted 800 acres of beans , not sure how many were no till.

[Grizz1219]

Just prepped a plot for throw and grow.. I'll keep you posted on that post.... I limed it Sunday.. planting in two weeks.. 

[ATbuckhunter]

No tilling is one of the best things you can do! It preserves the integrity of soil and doesn't destroy the mycorrhizae (beneficial fungi) in the soil which greatly improves yields and health of the plants. All the left over stubble from previous years serves as a great natural time released fertilizer and helps keep moister in the soil a lot longer. 

[LET EM GROW]

Thays what I'm hearing, and reading. It's impressive. I had soybeans in this 2 acre plot for the last 3 years. So all there organic matter and nutrients should be in the soil. I just don't know why more people don't utilize this method. Seems so simple. Maybe it's just not heard about enough?

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[LET EM GROW]

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[ATbuckhunter]

3 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

Thays what I'm hearing, and reading. It's impressive. I had soybeans in this 2 acre plot for the last 3 years. So all there organic matter and nutrients should be in the soil. I just don't know why more people don't utilize this method. Seems so simple. Maybe it's just not heard about enough?

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Probably because its relatively new so people are more comfortable with the old way. Also no till planters are are pricey so that keeps some people away. Eventually it will be a common practice as I see it being the future of farming. Higher yield, less gas and time spent on the tractor and no more soil erosion which is becoming a huge problem.  

[WNYBuckHunter]

Lots of farmers around my area are doing it with beans. They are drilling the beans into harvested WW/WR fields and it seems to be working pretty well. I dont know that I would do it without a drill, but Ill be watching for what kind of results you get. I just go over our plots with the tiller, partially to work in the fertilizer. What did you do with fertilizer on your no till plot?

[LET EM GROW]

Right on, I could never afford a no till planter. But I'd say it's cheaper or the same price, to buy some herbicide and spray off once a year and spread small seed. But far less time invested

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[ATbuckhunter]

5 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

Right on, I could never afford a no till planter. But I'd say it's cheaper or the same price, to buy some herbicide and spray off once a year and spread small seed. But far less time invested

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Its easier for someone that is just getting into it because the cost of a plow and all other things associated with food plots can be pretty expensive when you add it up. They are getting more affordable as they become more popular. 

[growalot]

I would love one too..or a co-op that has one to rent/barrow...Actually you QDM members should get together and buy one to rent out  to your members...figure out how many could pitch in and how much one costs...to lower costs...even work out a advertising /promotional thing with a local dealer...the rental would be sign up sheet 2/3 day allowed only 2x if everyone that wanted it got it at least once first... and small fee for maintenance.

Any how not here until all de-rocking is done...then I will start with winter grains grown, mowed when ripe and seeded in turnips...for a grain turnip plot...following spring a spring grain pea planting just to see how in works out..  like it or not...soil still needs some aeration and nitrogen is lost to the air when not incorporated and lime is a particle to particle amendment if you want it to work well......Most tilling and discing is done way deeper than needed.

[ATbuckhunter]

I would love one too..or a co-op that has one to rent/barrow...Actually you QDM members should get together and buy one to rent out  to your members...figure out how many could pitch in and how much one costs...to lower costs...even work out a advertising /promotional thing with a local dealer...the rental would be sign up sheet 2/3 day allowed only 2x if everyone that wanted it got it at least once first... and small fee for maintenance.

Any how not here until all de-rocking is done...then I will start with winter grains grown, mowed when ripe and seeded in turnips...for a grain turnip plot...following spring a spring grain pea planting just to see how in works out..  like it or not...soil still needs some aeration and nitrogen is lost to the air when not incorporated and lime is a particle to particle amendment if you want it to work well......Most tilling and discing is done way deeper than needed.

Well since you are aware of dr. Grand woods, he is known for the exclusive use of no till drills. He lives in an area where the soil isn't the best, and he has no problem with lime not being absorbed. Nitrogen problems can be solved by simple crop rotation...a practice that has been used for hundreds of years.


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[growalot]

I do not dispute that...I also do not know what he does in crop rotations...so that exclusivity ,I would have to ask. I do know that the no till drill does open the top layer of soil to insert the seed...I also am familiar with the weight of equipment and soil compaction over time...Crop rotation is something I practice all the time and I dics live plant material not always dead into my soils..in fact the WW turnips are all live disced...and the garden clovers are all live tilled in...which makes a big difference in what occurs in the plant materials break down in the soil.(live vs killed).

[ATbuckhunter]

I do not dispute that...I also do not know what he does in crop rotations...so that exclusivity ,I would have to ask. I do know that the no till drill does open the top layer of soil to insert the seed...I also am familiar with the weight of equipment and soil compaction over time...Crop rotation is something I practice all the time and I dics live plant material not always dead into my soils..in fact the WW turnips are all live disced...and the garden clovers are all live tilled in...which makes a big difference in what occurs in the plant materials break down in the soil.(live vs killed).

As far as I have read, the roots of the previous growing season helps prevent be compaction of soils and keeps it loose for this growing season. The no till does cut a slit into the soil for the placement of the seed, but that's minimally invasive. As far as discing in organic matter, that is obviously a great thing to do, but it's a quick release of nutrients compared to the longer time release of keeping the organic matter on top of the soil. Generally the less tilling and the lighter the discing the better. These are all things ice learned from both my classes and Dr. Grant him self.


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[growalot]

Let me give an example.. in the pic you can see plants growing pretty well...Now up to 4 years ago that was and old goat pasture...before that the farmers son would brush hog it 2 times a years....it held water all summer long and contains a lot of clay...It held water so well that I could not disc it at first and the tiller and I sunk to my ankles. I worked in live material and lime,fertilizer and planted hog radish ...did this a couple of years and finally this year I was able to disc the entire area in the spring..I disced it deep ...but by rolling the top soil and amendments into  the lower clay I opened that area up to natural drainage...It was no longer packed down from years of heavy equipment on moist clay sub soils...I will continue to plant root crops( it is over seeded with turnips)  and build the soils tilth before going to a clover plot. Which means limiting soil disturbance to the upper few inches allowing roots to do the rest...then planting a deep rooting clover mix

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/213.html

Edited August 16, 2016 by growalot

[ATbuckhunter]

Let me give an example.. in the pic you can see plants growing pretty well...Now up to 4 years ago that was and old goat pasture...before that the farmers son would brush hog it 2 times a years....it held water all summer long and contains a lot of clay...It held water so well that I could not disc it at first and the tiller and I sunk to my ankles. I worked in live material and lime,fertilizer and planted hog radish ...did this a couple of years and finally this year I was able to disc the entire area in the spring..I disced it deep ...but by rolling the top soil and amendments into  the lower clay I opened that area up to natural drainage...It was no longer packed down from years of heavy equipment on moist clay sub soils...I will continue to plant root crops  and build the soils tilth before going to a clover plot. Which means limiting soil disturbance to the upper few inches allowing roots to do the rest...then planting a deep rooting clover mix

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/213.html

Sounds like a lot of work so great job on turning the plot! Sounds like it was Mainly grass in that plot which is pretty shallow rooted which would allow for better soil compaction as well as it being clay.


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[growalot]

Thanks ,but no actually, it was clover and several deep rooted weed species...goats don't really like grass they actually weren't all that fond of the clover either........In fact clover seems to be the mainstay of all the lands up here...I tell my neighbors all you need to do is mow and clover will take over. PPL next door listened to me and now brush hog tractor width trails all over there place...which was totally golden rod. Now they have wht clover trails through tall golden rod...Can't say that helped my hunting at all!...lol but I know where the deer are when they aren't on me...and they don't hunt much...so It's like having a 100 acre sanctuary attached to one side of our place.

[t_barb]

I find this conversation interesting...  I have always taken the time to  till my brassica/turnip plots to prepare for planting and often wondered what would happen if I just killed everything off, seeded, fertilized and rolled...    I always get a kick out of the fact that  I always manage to drop some seed in my stone driveway when I am measuring and handling the seed.   it always manages to grow in the stones and actually grows fairly well.    So that has always made me wonder if I am over preparing if the stuff will grow in a stone driveway...    granted it might be different for other types of plots, but brassica and turnips seem to be pretty tolerant.

[growalot]

That depends on what your looking for..and the type of soil.  Want lots of green with small sometimes "woody" bulbs or do you want greens with big well textured bulbs..See just like with beets or carrots if too much of the bulb developed above the ground ..That part can get green and or with beets tough.. You just needn't go too deep

[LET EM GROW]

Lots of farmers around my area are doing it with beans. They are drilling the beans into harvested WW/WR fields and it seems to be working pretty well. I dont know that I would do it without a drill, but Ill be watching for what kind of results you get. I just go over our plots with the tiller, partially to work in the fertilizer. What did you do with fertilizer on your no till plot?

So 2 of the 3 plots got fert, disk, and rolled etc.. the no till plot has only been sprayed 2x, seeded and germinated, no fertilizer has been put down, since my tractor amd quad are out of commission. I have urea I was going to hand spread once I get a few minutes to do so.

Also, the last 2 years in my soybeans, where ever it was getting thin, or already thin.. I over seeded tall tine turnips throughout and they germinated and grew well. Leading me to think I shouldn't have a problem doing a whole plot this way. With the research I tried and have been impressed so far with the results . Though I wish I could get fert on it before a good rain.

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[LET EM GROW]

Grant woods along with the guy from whitetail habitat solutions are 2 of the most informative guys I've met on this method. I've also seen it done on you tube a few times. But yes grant woods soil is far from perfect yet he has no problem with getting crop to grow hence his rotation of crops. But his friends are the ones who do more of the no till seedings without the planter. They all do it a little different but it still is the same concept. John Obrien from Grandpa Ray Outdoors doesn't use any fert or lime in his plots and just mixes the right species together and plows under green plants for organic matters. Though he doesn't do any no till that I'm aware of. He has a lot of info on what when why and where when it comes to food plotting.

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[Zag]

I just use my garden tractor and York rake. I make a bunch of passes to scrape up the dirt, spread seed and fert and drive the tractor all over to try and get good seed soil contact. has worked like a charm for years.

[growalot]

Also one needs to remember soil types..Grant has similar soils to my own in its basically rock with a bit of soil and hill country. Way different than bottom land silt clay soils. Running heavy equipment over ours isn't going to have the same compaction issues as bottom land soils over time. Also one needs to recall Grants previous practices. Dump truck loads of "Antler dirt" spread yearly for years...Look it up,it's in his tapes.

Here's my point..you need to know what your working with..some things are universal...such as lime...but not all soils can be worked the same. There is no doubt no drill is a great technique done correctly...but it isn't necessarily a cure all for all areas. For that matter even the best for all areas and soil types . So before going out and investing A bunch of $$$ do all the home work you need to do. Learn a little more about your soil structure, how what you add (lime,fertilizers) work. Learn about micro/macro nutrients...it could save you time and $$ but also make your "hobby" a bit more interesting.

[landtracdeerhunter]

I used one of these up till a couple years ago. On dry year, it worked well; on wet years, it didn't work at all on our heavy clay soils.

[LET EM GROW]

Agreed grow, i know soils are different depending on locations and such. I have the same soils you do for the most part. But in my previous posts i was referring to no till plantings, plantings where no machines are used at all. Just glyphosate, soil test, seed, fert, etc.. and let the rain do its job, or roll the seed into the soil as best as possible, then wait for rain. If I was rich I'd experiment with a no till drill. But that will probably stay in my dreams lol. I pass a few farms on my long route to work everyday that use no till drills and seem to have great success. 

 

Its just nice to know i have plants several inches tall already from just killing off the vegetation, seeding etc.. all in 2 weeks time. Next year time and money shouldnt be soo much of an issue..