NY Crossbow Letters of Support

[tughillmcd]

NYCC is collecting letters of support for Crossbow full inclusion into Archery Season. It begins with a letter to the Governor acknowledging his support in 2014 and requesting his continued support going forward.

Click the link below to sign an online letter, which we will deliver to Albany

Please share this on your Wall and with your friends!

http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/letter/

[BizCT]

Done

[grampy]

Done.

[Steuben Jerry]

Done!

[stoneam2006]

Save for later will do tonight....we need all the support guys

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[stoneam2006]

Done

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[hunterman7956]

DONE AND HAD A FRIEND FILL IT OUT TOO

[greg54]

Done!!

[InkedLilPiggy]

Done and shared!

[NYBowhunter]

Done

[f3cbboy]

done

[BizCT]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:04 AM, tughillmcd said:

NYCC is collecting letters of support for Crossbow full inclusion into Archery Season. It begins with a letter to the Governor acknowledging his support in 2014 and requesting his continued support going forward.

Click the link below to sign an online letter, which we will deliver to Albany

Please share this on your Wall and with your friends!

http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/letter/

What is the expected date in 2017 by which we would know if xbows will be allowed as of 10/1/17? I ask because if it doesn't happen in 2017 I am tempted to just buy a compound in order to hunt the early season. Thanks.

[oldkevin]

done

[Meat First]

Done.  Kids bought me crossbow for Christmas!! SHHHH

Edited December 20, 2016 by Meat First

[nyslowhand]

10 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

What is the expected date in 2017 by which we would know if xbows will be allowed as of 10/1/17? I ask because if it doesn't happen in 2017 I am tempted to just buy a compound in order to hunt the early season. Thanks.

The last two years these Xbow bills got stalled in an Environmental sub-committee. Only until the NYS legislature adjourns for summer recess will we know for sure if it has a chance of being put up for a vote in 2017. That date is ~June 15th or so. Unless by some small miracle our elected officials actually get off their butts and do some real, constructive work and put it up for a vote earlier. What are the chances of that???

FYI - Interesting point, some legislators that sponsored these bills are actually on that dreaded, black hole Enviro sub-committee. My question to them is - So, you sponsor a bill to make your constituents happy and then let if die in a sub-committee you're a member of...repeatedly?

Naturally we need to write to our representatives to get these Xbow bills initially introduced! Once they get differed to that sub-committee, those are the legislators on that sub-committee that need to be the focus of the letter writing barrage! A bill can't be voted on by the house or assembly if it's stuck in the sub-committee quagmire! If it goes to the last days they're in session in June, chances are pretty dim it'll get any attention.

Just so all of you that aren't aware, this sub-committee is where the current "stupid" Xbow season dates, regulations and lack of insight came from! Thank you Dean Skelos, hope you enjoy jail!

Edited December 21, 2016 by nyslowhand

[BizCT]

The last two years these Xbow bills got stalled in an Environmental sub-committee. Only until the NYS legislature adjourns for summer recess will we know for sure if it has a chance of being put up for a vote in 2017. That date is ~June 15th or so. Unless by some small miracle our elected officials actually get off their butts and do some real, constructive work and put it up for a vote earlier. What are the chances of that???
FYI - Interesting point, some legislators that sponsored these bills are actually on that dreaded, black hole Enviro sub-committee. My question to them is - So, you sponsor a bill to make your constituents happy and then let if die in a sub-committee you're a member of...repeatedly?
Naturally we need to write to our representatives to get these Xbow bills initially introduced! Once they get differed to that sub-committee, those are the legislators on that sub-committee that need to be the focus of the letter writing barrage! A bill can't be voted on by the house or assembly if it's stuck in the sub-committee quagmire! If it goes to the last days they're in session in June, chances are pretty dim it'll get any attention.
Just so all of you that aren't aware, this sub-committee is where the current "stupid" Xbow season dates, regulations and lack of insight came from! Thank you Dean Skelos, hope you enjoy jail!

Thx for all the info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tughillmcd]

7 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

The last two years these Xbow bills got stalled in an Environmental sub-committee. Only until the NYS legislature adjourns for summer recess will we know for sure if it has a chance of being put up for a vote in 2017. That date is ~June 15th or so. Unless by some small miracle our elected officials actually get off their butts and do some real, constructive work and put it up for a vote earlier. What are the chances of that???

FYI - Interesting point, some legislators that sponsored these bills are actually on that dreaded, black hole Enviro sub-committee. My question to them is - So, you sponsor a bill to make your constituents happy and then let if die in a sub-committee you're a member of...repeatedly?

Naturally we need to write to our representatives to get these Xbow bills initially introduced! Once they get differed to that sub-committee, those are the legislators on that sub-committee that need to be the focus of the letter writing barrage! A bill can't be voted on by the house or assembly if it's stuck in the sub-committee quagmire! If it goes to the last days they're in session in June, chances are pretty dim it'll get any attention.

Just so all of you that aren't aware, this sub-committee is where the current "stupid" Xbow season dates, regulations and lack of insight came from! Thank you Dean Skelos, hope you enjoy jail!

I would like to clear some of this up. 

Bills are submitted and sent to committees as you state, but the committee can not act on it until the Committee Chairman places the bill on the "Agenda" for action. Numerous committee members work to get the bill placed on the committee agenda, but if the chairman doesn't put it on the agenda, It does not matter if the bill sponsor is on the committee or not, if the chairman does not place the bill on the agenda, it will go nowhere. The committee's hands are tied without support of the chairman. Focusing on only the committee members is not the best action. Legislators that are not part of the committee also play a role by discussing the bill with the chairman outside the meetings to help convince the chairman to take action. The more legislators that are behind the bill and talking to the chairman is very important.

You are correct about everything going to the last couple weeks of the session to get any action. Although it is not the best system and is extremely frustrating, the vast majority of legislation that is passed in any year happens in the last 2 weeks of the session when time is running out. So don't count anything dead until they adjourn in June.

Lastly, the crossbow season and regulations we have was not the result of committee action, it came about in the budget of 2014. Although the committee chairman was involved in the budget process, the committee did not meet nor act on the issue. The Governor and Senate supported classifying crossbows archery equipment in their version of the budget but the Assembly was holding it up. What we have today is the result of hundreds of people contacting their legislators in the last couple weeks of the budget process, especially members of the Assembly,  and request they support the crossbow language that was placed in the budget. In the 11th hour, there had been enough push made on the issue that the leadership in the Assembly agreed to work out a compromise. What we wound up with although not perfect was much better than the alternative.

We do not believe the crossbow regulations we have today are the best, but we did end up with a crossbow season that includes part of the early bow season and there is no sunset clause associated to it, which means what we have won't vanish without legislation to remove it. This is what happened when crossbows were allowed in the firearms season only for 2 years. The extender bill was vetoed by the governor because it would have also eliminated the youth deer hunt Columbus weekend,Weekend. Without the extender it just went away.  

What we are asking for with people to do by submitting a letter is getting a jump start on 2017 by having the support base engaged prior to beginning of the session in January. If we wait until everything is underway, we end up playing catch up. 

What is needed now is for everyone to come together and help us with the quest to bring crossbows to their rightful place alongside all other archery equipment in NY's hunting seasons.

Click to Submit a Crossbow Support Letter
Online Membership Application

Edited December 21, 2016 by tughillmcd

[tughillmcd]

18 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

What is the expected date in 2017 by which we would know if xbows will be allowed as of 10/1/17? I ask because if it doesn't happen in 2017 I am tempted to just buy a compound in order to hunt the early season. Thanks.

Unfortunately it is impossible to know when any action will take place. The issue can come up anytime in the session which is scheduled to start on January 4th and end on June 21st. 

One thing is for sure, the more people that engage in the issue with their legislators, the better chance we have of getting a positive outcome, and having it happen before the last week of the session.

 

[nyslowhand]

Please do NOT take any of my comments or opinions as any sort of criticism of you or the coalition. Just trying to understand the "big picture" as a Xbow supporter!!

Here's a few things that have baffled me about the Xbow issue and proposed legislation. Isn't the legislative year from Sept -> end of June, with two separate sessions as you mentioned? Aren't any proposed & inactive bills within that Environment sub-committee actually purged before the new Sept session? If so, why aren't new Xbow bills proposed in Sept as opposed to waiting until the argument starts over the new state budget and most everything else gets ignored? Is this an attempt to get new legislation added under the radar to the new budget as a "pork belly" add-on? Gotta be some sort of strategy used that I'm not seeing...!?!

Maybe you can give us supporters some insight into the workings of the proposed Xbow legislation over the past at least couple of years. Appears as thought a majority of hunters support full implementation of Xbows into the archery season, as polls show This seems to be also supported by numerous conservation and sporting organizations, as you listed a couple years ago. SO.. why is this such a political hot potato with a minimal number of antis lobbying against it always appearing to prevail?

Also recall reading a news article a few months ago about how these types of changes to DEC regulations stand little chance of being passed as new legislation w/o the DEC's blessing. If the past couple of years the bulk mailing barrage of support to all legislators hasn't worked, what's the next plan? As of now the DEC seems to be struggling with ways to manage the over-population issue. Shouldn't we try to convince them this Xbow legislation might be beneficial, not to mention increasing hunter numbers, involvement &/or satisfaction in deer hunting in general. They've stuck their nose in the AR issue attempting to satisfy some hunters, so why not here? At least from my armchair view, seems as thought the DEC would be our best ally.

BTW - Apparently I'm a victim of misinformation supplied by news organizations. IRC, the current Xbow regulations of 2014 are what came out of the Enviro sub-committee and then passed by the house & senate. Distinctly remember fingers being pointed at the sub-committee's chair (Dean Skelos) as being responsible for the FUBAR hack job of an otherwise fairly straight forward bill.

[tughillmcd]

10 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

Please do NOT take any of my comments or opinions as any sort of criticism of you or the coalition. Just trying to understand the "big picture" as a Xbow supporter!!

Here's a few things that have baffled me about the Xbow issue and proposed legislation. Isn't the legislative year from Sept -> end of June, with two separate sessions as you mentioned? Aren't any proposed & inactive bills within that Environment sub-committee actually purged before the new Sept session?  If so, why aren't new Xbow bills proposed in Sept as opposed to waiting until the argument starts over the new state budget and most everything else gets ignored? Is this an attempt to get new legislation added under the radar to the new budget as a "pork belly" add-on? Gotta be some sort of strategy used that I'm not seeing...!?!

Maybe you can give us supporters some insight into the workings of the proposed Xbow legislation over the past at least couple of years. Appears as thought a majority of hunters support full implementation of Xbows into the archery season, as polls show This seems to be also supported by numerous conservation and sporting organizations, as you listed a couple years ago. SO.. why is this such a political hot potato with a minimal number of antis lobbying against it always appearing to prevail?

Also recall reading a news article a few months ago about how these types of changes to DEC regulations stand little chance of being passed as new legislation w/o the DEC's blessing. If the past couple of years the bulk mailing barrage of support to all legislators hasn't worked, what's the next plan? As of now the DEC seems to be struggling with ways to manage the over-population issue. Shouldn't we try to convince them this Xbow legislation might be beneficial, not to mention increasing hunter numbers, involvement &/or satisfaction in deer hunting in general. They've stuck their nose in the AR issue attempting to satisfy some hunters, so why not here? At least from my armchair view, seems as thought the DEC would be our best ally.

BTW - Apparently I'm a victim of misinformation supplied by news organizations. IRC, the current Xbow regulations of 2014 are what came out of the Enviro sub-committee and then passed by the house & senate. Distinctly remember fingers being pointed at the sub-committee's chair (Dean Skelos) as being responsible for the FUBAR hack job of an otherwise fairly straight forward bill.

Let me begin by saying, I do not take any offense to your comments or opinions for anything more than your opinion and a possible misunderstanding of how and why we are where we are today. I reply to posts to try and correct misconceptions and to try and get everyone the best understanding of the issues as possible. Sometimes it is hard to convey exactly what we want to say in writing. Often time we know what we want to say when we write something and it makes perfect sense to us, but others read it and conclude something completely different than intended. So I will try to answer your questions from above. Please bear with me as this is going to take up some time.

First, The legislature convenes every year for the "Legislative Session" which normally runs From the first week of January until late June. There are 2 "Legislative Sessions" per "Legislative Cycle". The Legislative cycle is 2 consecutive "Sessions", the first beginning in January after an election and ending on December 31^st 2 years later, which is after the next election. The Governor and/or Legislature can call a "Special Session" after they adjourn in June up until December 31^st of that year, but only to discuss specific issues that are outlined in the agenda of that "Special Session". So if they call a special session to discuss an issue, they cannot bring up anything not on the agenda, i.e crossbow bills even though they are technically back in session. This is rare and usually happens only when there is a pressing issue that is urgent and must be addressed immediately, i.e. emergency funding after things like 911 or Super Storm Sandy. 

The life of a bill can be a little confusing. Bills can be introduced at any time during the year. They can be introduced during or after the session, but a bill introduced after they recess in June will only get a number and won’t be acted upon until either a special session is called, which is unlikely, or until it can be re/pre filed for the following session. This maneuverer is usually done to appease constituents that the legislator is reacting to someone’s concerns. Any bill that is introduced is "Recorded", issued a "Bill Number" in the appropriate "Chamber". The bill is then "Referred" to the appropriate "Committee" for consideration and possible action. Some semantics here, there are numerous "Standing Committees" in both the Senate and Assembly. A ”Sub Committee” would be a special committee set up for a specific issue. The Environmental Conservation Committees are Standing Committee, which means they exist to address any issue that pertains to Hunting, Fishing, Trapping, and/or Environmental concerns or issues. Don’t take it wrong, I only bring this up make sure we are on the same page with labels.

So now we have a bill, with a number and it has been handed off to the appropriate committee for deliberation and consideration. The Chairman of each committee controls the “Agenda” of their committee. If the chairman has the support from others on the committee and also the public in general, especially from their personal constituents, the bill may be placed on the agenda and if agreed upon is “Reported Out of Committee” to the chamber for a floor vote. It would be rare for the chairman to place the bill on their agenda if they do not feel there is enough votes for it to be reported out. Politics can also play a roll. The committee is comprised of members of both parties, the majority of the members are from the party that controls the chamber. i.e. Democrats in the Assembly and Republicans in the Senate. It would be rare for someone to place a bill on an agenda if they do not have enough support from the committee members of their party to move the bill out of committee to the floor. You probably won’t see a bill reported out where the minority party was the reason it was approved. So partisan politics can also interfere with the process. Some legislators have a personal opinion on an issue, but they also take into consideration the “pulse” of the voters in their district. If they have no personal opinion and there is little to no input from their constituents, they can be influenced by other members of the legislature. Sometimes they have a bill they want addressed, whether it is in their committee or another one, and will agree to support someone else’s bill in return for support for their bill. It’s referred to as horse trading to the layman. This is why it is important for people to begin their efforts with their own personal legislators more than targeting specific ones, especially at the beginning of the year. Having your legislator on your side of an issue is always beneficial even if they are not on a committee where the issue sits.

So now the Bill has been introduced, numbered and sits in the committee. If it is acted upon in the Committee and reported out to the Floor for a vote, then it goes to the floor and hopefully is placed on the calendar for and up or down vote. This too is not a guarantee as now the Speaker of the Assembly and the President in the Senate control those calendars (agendas). It would be rare for them to sit on a bill reported out to them, but it is possible. If the bill gets reported out of both committees, is voted on and passed on the floor of both chambers, it then goes to the Governor for approval or veto. If the Bill is not referred out of committee during the session, it just sits there for the remainder of the year. If this happens in year one of the cycle, it can be resubmitted for the following session with the same number. If it is not reintroduced then it cannot be acted upon in the next session. If it does not make it out of committee or does not get voted on the floor, at the end of the cycle, it is dead. It must then begin from scratch being submitted, assigned a new number and referred to the pertinent committee. It is customary for a bill that did not get moved in the committee at the end of the first year of the cycle to be pre-filed in late December so it is already in the committee when the session starts. It also streamlines the process so there is not a flood of bills if they could not be submitted until the session begins. New bills can also be pre-filed so the procedural part of the process is complete on day 1 of the new session.

Note that you may see a bill with a letter at the end of it. That letter indicates the bill has been revised/amended and how many times based on the letter. The S and A at the beginning of the bill signify which chamber that bill number belongs to. There can be 2 bills active in one year with the same “Number” say 9257 for example, but A9257 and S9257 are separate and are probably not even close to being about the same issue. So a bill number is always preceded with an A or S, but only has a letter at the end if it has been amended.

For a bill to become law it must be passed in both chambers and signed into law by the Governor. Both versions of the bill must be identical verbatim. These two bills are referred to as being “Same As” Bills. S7005 and A9623 were the last sessions same as crossbow bills.

So now that we got through all of that, why is it so hard to get movement with so much support to change this? Those opposed to the bill don’t have to have the ear of everyone in Albany. They don’t even need the support of half of the legislators. All they need is the support of the Chairmen of at least one Environmental Conservation Committee. Up until 2 years ago, that was Bob Sweeney, Chairman of the Assembly EnCon Committee. The Senate has passed the bills on the floor to increase crossbow use numerous times, yet it was never given any consideration in the Assembly EnCon Committee by Chairman Sweeney. (BTW Skelos had nothing to do with blocking crossbows. It actually passed in the Senate numerous times under him and full inclusion was part of the Senate Budget bill in 2014. Not defending anyone, just setting the record straight). The Governor is also an important cog in the wheel as if the bills do make it through both chambers, he has to sign it to become law. Reaching out to him early and gaining his support can help if he gets behind an issue. He can be helpful with discussions about the issue at the committee level on a floor votes.

Whether or not you like or agree with the process, this is, as they say, How Sausage is Made”. We must work within this system that is in place today and continue to grow support. We are working to undo 30+ years of negative opinions, comments, and the miss-representation of crossbows. It can and has been a slow process, but persistence will prevail. We feel we have been making progress, are in a good position moving forward and are working to grow the support from the governor’s office prior to the session. NYCC was formed to bring a focus to the crossbow issue, provide a pointed positive message to Albany and to correct the stigma that has been persisted for years. This is where we need the people to help us. In the past we have asked people to contact legislators directly. By submitting your letters through us, we have a count of how much support we actually have and from where. The letters that have been, and continue to be submitted to us are being forwarded to the Governor’s office and are being sorted by legislative districts. Once the Session begins in January, they will also be sent to the legislators of the person that submitted them.  

As for the DEC. Dec has supported classifying the crossbow as archery equipment for many years. Their official position is stated in the 5 year deer management plan published in 2012. http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerplan2012.pdf  The new 5 year plan  should be coming out sometime in early 2017. Keep this in mind. Just because they are solidly behind crossbow inclusion, it is not a slam dunk. But without their support, it can be even harder to get things like this passed

As I stated in the previous post, the crossbow language we have is the result of a compromise that came from the budget negotiations of 2014. Not perfect but better than having nothing, which was very close to happening. The crossbow in the budget is not “pork barrel” as nothing can be placed in the budget that does not have a significant impact to either spending or revenue. This was originally placed in the budget as part of the Governor’s ”New York is Open for Hunting and Fishing Initiative” in 2014. The economic impact to local economies and tourism from crossbow inclusion is significant. Some is by getting many people into the woods earlier, many of them actually returning to the bow woods that can no longer use their vertical bows, but also from out of state hunters that come here to hunt and spend their money in restaurants, motels, gas stations and such. There is a formula of how much is spent per hunter per day in the woods. Sure we all don’t spend it every day, but there is an average of how much people spend per year and how many days they hunt. The more days people hunt, usually the more they spend per year. There are a lot of people that own hunting camps that no longer travel to NY until gun season because they can’t use their crossbows. And then there is the segment of people that travel to other states just to be able to use their crossbows more. Some will always go, but some only go to get more crossbow time. The crossbow seasons we have today has had a positive impact on outdoor spending and tourism income to NY’s economy, but there is still more to gain. There is still a lot of time that people can’t use crossbows, which for some means less trips to NY and to others, more trips out of state. And let’s not forget those that just stay home and don’t get out at all until crossbow or gun seasons do open. Expanding crossbows to the entire bow season can have a large positive impact to NY’s economy, especially rural areas that rely on hunters for a significant portion of their business. Thus crossbow inclusion still has a place in the budget.

I know this has been long winded, but I wanted to provide a better understanding of the process, and to answer your questions in a way the was not leaving too much for granted, but in a fashion that hopefully explains what has happened, what is continuing to happen today and why.

Hopefully I have helped answer some of your questions.

Rick McDermott
nycrossbowcoalition.com