Bullet perfomance

[Enigma]

Shot a doe at 100 yards with this .308 handoad. 2700 fps 150 grain spitzer. Quartering away shot, in behind the back ribs and exit hole about the third rib back, between the ribs. Never hit bone as far as I can tell. Small exit wound assuming it was the bullet core. Found the copper underneath the skin on the far side. Nice expansion but poor bonding???? So I ask, anyone ever see a bullet like this after the fact? I'm calling it a failure even though I recovered the deer. . . .

[airedale]

I had that happen with a Ruger Number 1 chambered in 243 winchester firing a handloaded 105 gr Speer Hot Core bullet at about seventy five yards, the deer did not go far but I do not like to see a bullet shed it's jacket. Deer are not very big animals on average so for the most part you can get away that kind of thing. When big boned larger framed heavy animals are hunted that kind of performance can cause big time problems with lack of penetration or getting stopped when striking a large bone.

There are many premium bullets on the market these days that hold up well in almost any situation, my go to bullet when I get real serious is the old Nosler Partition. I have been using this design or well over 30 yrs now and it has never failed me on deer or several larger big game animals I have taken because it's design will not allow it to fail. I especially like the way it still expands well even at very low velocity. Violent expansion plus deep penetration at all velocities and still holding together is what makes a recipe for a deadly bullet.

Al

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by airedale

[dbHunterNY]

never had jacket separation enough for the jacket to remain in the deer without the core.  i've shot different bullets from Remington, winchester, hornady, and federal.  none handloads though.

[dbHunterNY]

maybe a lemon?? does that mean you should shoot a few more from the same batch through some water jugs?  I'd want to know if the rest of the box is defective or whatever.

[shawnhu]

maybe a lemon?? does that mean you should shoot a few more from the same batch through some water jugs?  I'd want to know if the rest of the box is defective or whatever.

It's a handload. But can't hurt to shoot at gel or water jugs to see the results.

Perhaps 2700 fps for the 150 gr is too hot of a load for the bullet? What's the manufacturer of the bullet?


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[dbHunterNY]

44 minutes ago, shawnhu said:

 

It's a handload. But can't hurt to shoot at gel or water jugs to see the results.

Perhaps 2700 fps for the 150 gr is too hot of a load for the bullet? What's the manufacturer of the bullet?


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i had the same questions but maybe the original poster can tell us.  it'll be a while before i load anything for deer but it'd be interesting to know the bullet mfg.  if it's a lemon i'm sure they'd make things right.  especially if a few random others from the same lot did the same through water jugs.  i'm sure they'd want to know the serial number on the box too.

[Pygmy]

In my experience this is not unusual performance from standard cup and core bullets...

I have recovered a number of shed jackets from DEAD animals over the years...

If you want to be sure to have a nice. pretty mushroomed bullet ( which you will seldom see because it will exit on most shots) pay the extra $$ for premium bonded bullets such as NPs, or monolithic bullets such as Barnes or similar products...

OR just keep killing your deer with standard bullets and quit worrying about such things as "bullet failures" that result in so many dead deer...

[Curmudgeon]

53 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

OR just keep killing your deer with standard bullets and quit worrying about such things as "bullet failures" that result in so many dead deer...

And, realize that these failures result in hundreds of lead fragments in meat and gutpiles.

[ncountry]

24 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

And, realize that these failures result in hundreds of lead fragments in meat and gutpiles.

For close to 20 years I  reloaded for my 308 ,125gr Spitzer bullets pushing 3000fps .The bullet  always looked like this after shooting a deer. Often I found it against the hide on the opposite side. If shot behind the front shoulder there will be 0 shot in meat..  Mush for lungs. For me this is perfect bullet performance. 100% energy tranfer.  ; )

[Enigma]

Thanks for the replies. It was a Sierra Pro Hunter bullet. Not really what I'd call a "premium" bullet I guess like a NP or Barnes etc.. Don't recall how long I've had the box but it's been awhile and I'm at the end of them. Still have 20 rounds or so left.

Have shot several deer with them at various velocities, mild to hot. This bullet has killed deer for me multiple times from 25 yards to 225. I've hit them though both shoulders (devastating) and through the lungs (pass throughs) and the results have always been the same - dead deer. I'd say 1 in 3 deer I've shot with this round hasn't had an exit however.

Just wanted to hear other's perspective on the core separation that's all. I guess my observation is that copper and lead flying at that speed can do funny things when it hits flesh and bone and a perfect mushroom well, sometimes we get them and sometimes we don't!

Thanks again and good hunting . . .

 

 

[the blur]

I just learned, a Nosler Partition is designed to fragment, and leave shards of lead.     I found lead pieces in the exit wound of my last animal.

[Pygmy]

Absolutely....a NP is designed to expand VERY quickly  and do a lot of damage while shedding its forward portion, but then the partition keeps about 65 % of the bullet weight intact to give deep penetration..If you happen to recover a NP( I have one that went through about 2 feet of Alaskan moose) there probably will be NO lead left on the front part of the bullet.  I have heard stories of NPs "penciling" through an animal with out expending...Total BS, probably from someone who lost an animal due to poor shot placement and never really knew WHERE the bullet struck... In many cases the entrance wound from a NP is bigger than the exit..They ALWAYS expand ( provided  there is sufficient terminal velocity)  and the core of the bullet usually exits, at least on broadside shots.

[shawnhu]

Thanks for the replies. It was a Sierra Pro Hunter bullet. Not really what I'd call a "premium" bullet I guess like a NP or Barnes etc.. Don't recall how long I've had the box but it's been awhile and I'm at the end of them. Still have 20 rounds or so left.
Have shot several deer with them at various velocities, mild to hot. This bullet has killed deer for me multiple times from 25 yards to 225. I've hit them though both shoulders (devastating) and through the lungs (pass throughs) and the results have always been the same - dead deer. I'd say 1 in 3 deer I've shot with this round hasn't had an exit however.
Just wanted to hear other's perspective on the core separation that's all. I guess my observation is that copper and lead flying at that speed can do funny things when it hits flesh and bone and a perfect mushroom well, sometimes we get them and sometimes we don't!
Thanks again and good hunting . . .
 
 

If the copper jacket was found on the opposite hide, then the bullet has done its job. The Pro Hunter is a HP flat tail bullet, designed for closer range shots. Maybe try reducing the load and testing it for better penetration if you want an exit.


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[Lawdwaz]

Here's a picture of the 80gr Barnes TTSX from the buck I killed on Monday:

 

 

 

 

 

.

[ATbuckhunter]

14 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Here's a picture of the 80gr Barnes TTSX from the buck I killed on Monday:

 

 

 

 

 

.

I don't see a pic. Although im curious to see it. 

[Lawdwaz]

8 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I don't see a pic. Although im curious to see it. 

That, my little grasshopper is the point.  The bullet did it's job and exited the deer, leaving dramatic damage and two holes to leak.

The bullet is stuffed in a grassy lane in north central PA resting after completing the mission.

 

[vizslas]

i have a 303 British and the soft points just fragment . i have to kinda feel around for lead in the meat. i just shot  a doe at 120 yrds. the bullet a Barnes mz expander 250 grain went through the back of the elbow cut the breast plate in half and exited through the other shoulder breaking it. didn't find this until i cut her up tonight  a piece broke off and  traveled up her neck and exited out the side neck about six inches below the jaw..

[ATbuckhunter]

5 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

That, my little grasshopper is the point.  The bullet did it's job and exited the deer, leaving dramatic damage and two holes to leak.

The bullet is stuffed in a grassy lane in north central PA resting after completing the mission.

 

Well that one went over my head haha. Same results as what i get with TSX bullets.

[Lawdwaz]

15 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Well that one went over my head haha. Same results as what i get with TSX bullets.

Glad you have a sense of humor!

Barnes makes some great bullets, I've been using them for 20+ years.

[dbHunterNY]

I've seemed to have pretty good luck past handful of years with the 150gr Federal Fusion ammo in 30-06.  they just anchored another doe at 208-210 yards.  broadsided but slightly quartering away. never took a step despite it was only through the rib cage.  i'd expect it if I busting through shoulders but not just through the rib cage.  pass through but must have shed some significant energy inside that deer.

[Curmudgeon]

10 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Here's a picture of the 80gr Barnes TTSX from the buck I killed on Monday:

 

 

 

 

 

.

It looks just like the bullet that killed my deer, even though mine was a Federal Trophy Copper 130 grain out of a .270. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Curmudgeon
Typo

[Pygmy]

2 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

It looks just like the bullet that killed my deer, even though mine was a Federal Trophy Copper 130 grain out of a .270. 

Also just like the 120 grain TSX from my 7mm08 that I used to kill my buck Monday afternoon...

I currently use Barnes X type bullets in all of my hunting rifles except my 30-06s, mainly because I have a supply of  standard spritzers loaded for my Garand and my 03-A3.

However, I plan to use up the lead bullets at the range and the NEXT box of .30 cal projectiles will be 150 grain TSX or TTSX...

I have killed a variety of game animals now from coyotes to moose with  the Barnes bullets in  3 different chamberings, and they have done a great job every time.

I could care less if some of the energy is "wasted" on the landscape beyond the animal...Energy alone does not kill animals, destruction of vital tissue does.  I want a bullet that expands, maintains it's weight and exits, leaving two holes, and the Barnes bullets do that  much more often than standard cup and core bullets, or fast expanders such as ballistic tips..

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, Pygmy said:

Also just like the 120 grain TSX from my 7mm08 that I used to kill my buck Monday afternoon...

I currently use Barnes X type bullets in all of my hunting rifles except my 30-06s, mainly because I have a supply of  standard spritzers loaded for my Garand and my 03-A3.

However, I plan to use up the lead bullets at the range and the NEXT box of .30 cal projectiles will be 150 grain TSX or TTSX...

I have killed a variety of game animals now from coyotes to moose with  the Barnes bullets in  3 different chamberings, and they have done a great job every time.

I could care less if some of the energy is "wasted" on the landscape beyond the animal...Energy alone does not kill animals, destruction of vital tissue does.  I want a bullet that expands, maintains it's weight and exits, leaving two holes, and the Barnes bullets do that  much more often than standard cup and core bullets, or fast expanders such as ballistic tips..

Yes and yes. And maintaining mass is especially important with the smaller calibers. A typical lead core bullet loses 30% of its mass on contact. That makes an 80 grain Barnes more effective than a 100 grain lead soft point.

[shawnhu]

Yes and yes. And maintaining mass is especially important with the smaller calibers. A typical lead core bullet loses 30% of its mass on contact. That makes an 80 grain Barnes more effective than a 100 grain lead soft point.

Do you have scientific facts to prove this theory of yours, or is this just another stab at lead?


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[ATbuckhunter]

Do you have scientific facts to prove this theory of yours, or is this just another stab at lead?


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There's plenty of research out there to support that. A good lead bullet will retain maybe 80 percent of its mass.


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