Slug Gun Sighting Prefrence

[Five Seasons]

So I have shot lightfield hyb. expander sabot slugs for almost 20 years out of my rifled barrel browning autoloader. I've killed many a deer with it. My grandpa passed away several years ago and he had some extra in his closet that i grabbed. Last season I had a delayed fire issue while trying to drop a doe. I missed and took 3 more shots at the doe (she wasn't too smart). All misses that i believe were the result of this delayed fire/flinch combo. My only theory is that i had a bad batch  of slugs that maybe were exposed to moisture at some point.

Anyhow, I decided to start fresh this year and bought some Hornady (love their ammo) SST slugs.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/shotgun/12-ga-sst-300-gr-ftx-slug#!/

I have some potential 150 yard shots but most are under 75 if not closer. I settled in on sighting the new ammo in at 1" high at 100. I know that this means I'll be a little low at 150, but I feel for a whitetail that this plan will keep me in the vitals from 20 to 150 yards. I didn't like the idea of being 2.4" high at 50 and 2.7" high at 100. I'll add that these grouped really well for a shotgun, and while over 246gr. lighter than the lightfiled i like the energy and accuracy.

http://www.litfld.com/products/hunting/

thoughts?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Honestly while the SST bullets group really well in my Muzzleloader I am not a fan of their performance once they get to the deer. I have two friends that use the Remington accutips and their terminal are very good.  I have had great luck in my Remington 1187 with the Federal Trophy copper. (I even like the barnes expanders better but they don't make them anymore). 4" groups at 200 and a GREAT exit hole

[airedale]

When you superimpose 2.4" to 2.7" over an average Deer's vitals out to 150 yards it is not that big of a deal as they are a fairly big target, just hold ever so slightly low at the closer ranges and you will be fine.  Get some range time in with that gun and those slugs at all ranges so you see exactly where they hit and you will have the confidence if presented with a good shot you can make it.

Al

[sad_story]

Another approach, which I use , is using the maximum point blank range (MPBR).

If you aren't familiar with it... it basically means that you pick an kill zone for the size of the vitals ... so if you always aim at one point on your deer if the bullet is up x inches or down y inches you'll still hit vitals...

So think of your bullet trajectory flying through a (x+y) pipe... common practice is 6" for deer. As the sabot leaves the muzzle it rises in its trajectory until it reaches the top of the pipe (3" high) and then begins to fall to 3" low at the bottom of the pipe.... the distance where the sabot hits the bottom is the max yardage you would shoot center vitals.




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[wolc123]

I use the that same ammo (2-3/4", 12 ga Hornady SST) in my long range slug gun.  I messed up a little last season, hitting a doe above the spine rather than below as I had intended.  That shot severed the nerve connection to her rear legs, but probably would not have been fatal for several hours. Her front legs still worked, and no other vitals were hit.  A quick second shot to the neck finished her, but she suffered longer than she needed to and several premium-quality chops were lost.   

I screwed up on the range that year, trying to save a few of those $ 4 ea slugs.  My point of impact at 100 yards was 6" above zero, on the single shot I fired.  I should have made an adjustment right there.  Instead, when that doe stepped out and stood broadside at 100 yards, and I aimed for the hair just below the spine, the slug struck above.   It is easy to say on the range that you will adjust "on the deer" but it is tougher to do (a lesson I learned the hard way last season).   After the season ended last year, I turned the elevation knob on the scope down 1/2 turn.  I am hoping that my 100 yard slugs impact 1" above zero now, and I will use as many slugs on that range as required until they do.  Hopefully that will be just one.   

So if you are looking for a number with that slug, my recommendation would be 1" above zero at 100 yards.   As far as terminal performance of that bullet in a 12 ga, 2-3/4" sabot, the only other deer I used it on was a broadside button buck which dropped dead in his tracks when struck broadside, center-lung.  The exit hole was about 1" dia, and meat damage was just slightly more than some of the other 12 gauge slugs I have used.   I have used that gun (Marlin 512 bolt-action) with other sabots for kills up to to 163 yards.  The SST's have better terminal performance than the Federal solid lead sabots that I used prior (they would only leave a 1/2" exit hole with a broadside lung shot), and about equal accuracy.  In a light cross-wind, I would fire on a deer from a rest at up to 200 yards with the SST's, where they hold a 4" group from the bench.  

What I like the best about those 12 ga sabots, is the energy that remains at 200 yards.  It is about 4X what I get out of the same bullet, fired from my 50 cal ML with 100 grains of triple 7 powder.  Another lesson I learned the hard way is that ML is only effective on deer (unless they are perfectly broadside), at ranges up to 150 yards.  It did not quite cut it at 175, costing me a "quartering away" buck, even though my bullet struck right where I aimed.  The other HUGE advantage of my 12 gage is those two extra shots, one of which I needed on that doe last fall.  To top it off, that Marlin 12 gauge groups just as good from the bench as my T/C omega 50 cal ML, at 200 yards.         

[Five Seasons]

21 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Honestly while the SST bullets group really well in my Muzzleloader I am not a fan of their performance once they get to the deer. I have two friends that use the Remington accutips and their terminal are very good.  I have had great luck in my Remington 1187 with the Federal Trophy copper. (I even like the barnes expanders better but they don't make them anymore). 4" groups at 200 and a GREAT exit hole

I am a little concerned about that is well. The lightfields just destroyed deer... and these hornadys weigh a lot less. It was even noticeable by the size of the holes in the paper compared to my .30-06 superformance. Wasn't much larger. I guess time will tell this season. They do get rave reviews by most hunters.

21 hours ago, airedale said:

When you superimpose 2.4" to 2.7" over an average Deer's vitals out to 150 yards it is not that big of a deal as they are a fairly big target, just hold ever so slightly low at the closer ranges and you will be fine.  Get some range time in with that gun and those slugs at all ranges so you see exactly where they hit and you will have the confidence if presented with a good shot you can make it.

Al

you know what's nice about rifles? same cost for a box of 20 as it is for 5 slugs lol. But you're right. I am very comfortable with my gun. The new ammo just has me pondering. I'm glad I can hunt 8f with my rifle, but still need my slug gun for 7j.

56 minutes ago, sad_story said:

Another approach, which I use , is using the maximum point blank range (MPBR).

If you aren't familiar with it... it basically means that you pick an kill zone for the size of the vitals ... so if you always aim at one point on your deer if the bullet is up x inches or down y inches you'll still hit vitals...

So think of your bullet trajectory flying through a (x+y) pipe... common practice is 6" for deer. As the sabot leaves the muzzle it rises in its trajectory until it reaches the top of the pipe (3" high) and then begins to fall to 3" low at the bottom of the pipe.... the distance where the sabot hits the bottom is the max yardage you would shoot center vitals.




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I subscribe to this theory as well. The problem i have is with deer, you don't always have a broadside shot, you also aren't shooting from a bench and sometimes your heart is pounding or your fingers numb. I will probably compensate if shooting 200 (very unlikely) and maybe aim a tad, and I mean a tad low at 50 and under. I have never taken a neck shot but I know those that have on nice deer when it was their only shot and have been successful. that's where it gets a little dicey. 

16 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I use the that same ammo (2-3/4", 12 ga Hornady SST) in my long range slug gun.  I messed up a little last season, hitting a doe above the spine rather than below as I had intended.  That shot severed the nerve connection to her rear legs, but probably would not have been fatal for several hours. Her front legs still worked, and no other vitals were hit.  A quick second shot to the neck finished her, but she suffered longer than she needed to and several premium-quality chops were lost.   

I screwed up on the range that year, trying to save a few of those $ 4 ea slugs.  My point of impact at 100 yards was 6" above zero, on the single shot I fired.  I should have made an adjustment right there.  Instead, when that doe stepped out and stood broadside at 100 yards, and I aimed for the hair just below the spine, the slug struck above.   It is easy to say on the range that you will adjust "on the deer" but it is tougher to do (a lesson I learned the hard way last season).   After the season ended last year, I turned the elevation knob on the scope down 1/2 turn.  I am hoping that my 100 yard slugs impact 1" above zero now, and I will use as many slugs on that range as required until they do.  Hopefully that will be just one.   

 

yeah 6" is really high. and at least take 2, if not the preferred 3. good to hear your story ended up ok though.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Belo

[wolc123]

It would be nice if we could use a rife in my home zone (9f), but I don't see it happening any time soon.  It really does suck to have to spend $4 per shot.  It would be great to fill a few dmp tags with my crossbow this year and save some ammo cost.   I have done well on bucks with it, but have yet to get a shot at an antlerless deer.    The local farmers hit them pretty hard all summer on their nussance permits, so opportunities in the fall are few and far between.   

It will be interesting to see what that 1/2 turn down on my slug-gun scope will do to the point of impact at 100 yards.  Hopefully, I will find out before the end of Labor day weekend.   It would be cool if it hits 1" high at 100 yards.  

2 hours ago, Belo said:

I am a little concerned about that is well. The lightfields just destroyed deer... and these hornadys weigh a lot less. It was even noticeable by the size of the holes in the paper compared to my .30-06 superformance. Wasn't much larger. I guess time will tell this season. They do get rave reviews by most hunters.

you know what's nice about rifles? same cost for a box of 20 as it is for 5 slugs lol. But you're right. I am very comfortable with my gun. The new ammo just has me pondering. I'm glad I can hunt 8f with my rifle, but still need my slug gun for 7j.

I subscribe to this theory as well. The problem i have is with deer, you don't always have a broadside shot, you also aren't shooting from a bench and sometimes your heart is pounding or your fingers numb. I will probably compensate if shooting 200 (very unlikely) and maybe aim a tad, and I mean a tad low at 50 and under. I have never taken a neck shot but I know those that have on nice deer when it was their only shot and have been successful. that's where it gets a little dicey. 

yeah 6" is really high. and at least take 2, if not the preferred 3. good to hear your story ended up ok though.

 

[The_Real_TCIII]

It would be nice if we could use a rife in my home zone (9f), but I don't see it happening any time soon.  It really does suck to have to spend $4 per shot.  It would be great to fill a few dmp tags with my crossbow this year and save some ammo cost.   I have done well on bucks with it, but have yet to get a shot at an antlerless deer.    The local farmers hit them pretty hard all summer on their nussance permits, so opportunities in the fall are few and far between.   
It will be interesting to see what that 1/2 turn down on my slug-gun scope will do to the point of impact at 100 yards.  Hopefully, I will find out before the end of Labor day weekend.   It would be cool if it hits 1" high at 100 yards.  
 

I've killed a whole lot of deer in 9F and can't think of one where I needed a rifle


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[wolc123]

38 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I've killed a whole lot of deer in 9F and can't think of one where I needed a rifle


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I have too, and that leads to the main reason I would prefer a rifle.  I can't think of one where the rifle would not have done it better.   Ammo for my rifles (30/30 or 30/06) costs less than half of what sabot slugs cost.  That really adds up when you add the ammo usage on the range to that used while hunting.    Also, the effective range of my rifled shotgun is 200 yards, while my 30/06 is 350.  I have several stands and blinds at home where a 350 yard range would be very handy.  All have nice rests and would be almost like shooting from a bench.  I can't think of a single case where a shotgun would offer any advantage over a rifle. 

What really blows is that rifles have been repeatedly proven to be less likely involved in hunting accidents than rifles.   The silliest loophole is that which allows the usage of pistols in rifle chamberings (ie .35 rem), but not rifles.    

[Swamp_bucks]

Theres 4 of us that hunt together and we all use that round.  We sight in 1inch high at 100yrds and could easily reach 150.  We shot a combined 5 deer last year with the sst farthest one ran maybe 40 yards.  My favorite sabot ever was the federal with barnes expanders those ones are just nasty but cant seem to ever find them.

[Robhuntandfish]

for the 20 g savage i started using remington accutips but could never find them.  So i tried the federal trophy copper sabots and they were even better, $1 cheaper a box, easier to find and more accurrate.  

[NonTypical]

28 minutes ago, Swamp_bucks said:

Theres 4 of us that hunt together and we all use that round.  We sight in 1inch high at 100yrds and could easily reach 150.  We shot a combined 5 deer last year with the sst farthest one ran maybe 40 yards.  My favorite sabot ever was the federal with barnes expanders those ones are just nasty but cant seem to ever find them.

Federal does not use Barnes anymore. Now they use their own called Trophy Copper with a Nosler ballistic tip. They work just as good as the Barnes. They are hard to find. I buy a case which is 10 boxes online from a company in Texas for about $12.50 a box. In the past, they had to be shipped to an FFL, but this year they shipped them right to my house. They told me that the law was changed in New York to shipp ammo. 

[wildcat junkie]

3 hours ago, NonTypical said:

Federal does not use Barnes anymore. Now they use their own called Trophy Copper with a Nosler ballistic tip. They work just as good as the Barnes. They are hard to find. I buy a case which is 10 boxes online from a company in Texas for about $12.50 a box. In the past, they had to be shipped to an FFL, but this year they shipped them right to my house. They told me that the law was changed in New York to shipp ammo. 

Do you have a link to language concerning shipping ammo to New York State?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 hours ago, NonTypical said:

Federal does not use Barnes anymore. Now they use their own called Trophy Copper with a Nosler ballistic tip. They work just as good as the Barnes. They are hard to find. I buy a case which is 10 boxes online from a company in Texas for about $12.50 a box. In the past, they had to be shipped to an FFL, but this year they shipped them right to my house. They told me that the law was changed in New York to shipp ammo. 

Post that link up if you will. I still have 8 boxes of the Federals with the barnes expanders. Those bullets were just awesome. If you say these are as good I am interested in a case as well. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

double post

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

Do you have a link to language concerning shipping ammo to New York State?

I'll dig for what I read. I think it is like the 7 round deal. No formal change to the law but some letter of understanding thing. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

Do you have a link to language concerning shipping ammo to New York State?

http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2015/07/cuomo_agrees_to_changes_to_ny_safe_act_regarding_ammunition_sales.html

[Five Seasons]

Theres 4 of us that hunt together and we all use that round.  We sight in 1inch high at 100yrds and could easily reach 150.  We shot a combined 5 deer last year with the sst farthest one ran maybe 40 yards.  My favorite sabot ever was the federal with barnes expanders those ones are just nasty but cant seem to ever find them.

Good to hear, thanks!


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[Five Seasons]

http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2015/07/cuomo_agrees_to_changes_to_ny_safe_act_regarding_ammunition_sales.html

Wow that's huge. I can't always find everything I want and the big box stores have you by the balls even more with gander gone.


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[wolc123]

I sighted in all of my deer guns, and my squirrel rifle over the long holiday weekend.   I ended up using almost a full box of the 12 ga SST's with my Marlin 512.  The vertical adjustment on Bushnell Banner 4X scope was a little coarser than I assumed.  The half turn down, that I did after the poor hit last season, put the first shot low and just off the 8 x 11 paper target at 100 yards. 6 clicks up, put the second shot 4 " high.  3 clicks down, and the last (2) shots formed a 2" dia group, centered on the bull, which is where I left it.   There should be no excuses for a poor hit with that gun this season, but it cost me almost $ 20 worth of ammo to get there.  The 5th slug from that box will be the one in the chamber on opening day, and I have (3) more boxes in reserve.

The only other gun that needed a major adjustment was my new Marlin 30/30 with open sights.   It came from the factory with the ramp set in the middle, and when I first tried it at 40 yards with some old 170 gr bullets, I had to aim low to pop some jugs.    I am using 150's for deer this season, so I adjusted it to the second lowest position before taking my first shot on the range last weekend.  That shot struck right at the top of the paper.   I adjusted the ramp to the lowest position and it printed a 3 shot, 3" diameter group, centered 1-3/4" above the bull from 50 yards.  That is where I left it.

I also checked my smooth bore Ithaca mod 37 16 ga with Weaver 1-1/2X scope from 50 yards and it printed a 3 shot, 3-1/4" diameter group centered 3/4" above the bull.  Suprisingly, my open-sighted Remington 870 smooth-bore 12 ga turned in the best performance at 50 yards, printing a 3 shot, 2" diameter group centered 2" above the bull.

My Ruger M77 30/06 with Redfield 3-9X scope was the clear winner at 100 yards with a 2 shot, 3/8" diameter group centered 1-1/4" above the bull.  My T/C Omega 50 cal ML, with Redfield 2-7X scope, placed second at that range, with a 2 shot, 1" diameter group centered 1" above the bull.   The two Marlins were the only guns that needed adjustments.     

  

Edited September 7, 2017 by wolc123

[Five Seasons]

bushnell while not inferior aren't know to be stellar. I like their rangefinders but have had fogging issues with some of their binocs. I have a red-dot bushnell on my turkey gun and it's great. I think they're hit or miss for good value optics.