HERE COMES THE GUN LAWS

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I went head-to-head and side-by-side with a bump-fire guy a few years ago. The bet involved 15 seconds of sustained fire with half the score involving amount of ammo fired, and half involving scores on target. It took us six tries before he could even get through the 15 second drill without a malfunction, and he put 3 of his 100 shots on target. I only shot about 40 rounds with my finger, but 75% of them were on target.
Focus on the steak, not the beans.
 

Increase the target size to a footprint occupied by hundreds or thousands of people and I can see the evil draw to using one

[tuckersdaddy]

I have way more guns than I will admit to on the Internet and I am more pro gun than anyone else I know but I do not think guns should be sold in box stores. The same kid that drooled on my groceries while cashing me out at Walmart should not be able to be selling guns the next day. In my opinion guns should be sold at gun shops by professionals, and those professionals should have the ability to deny a gun buyer if they see fit.


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2 things the box stores selling firearms do... First is keeping pricing in check, second it allows people who work odd hours access.. Now your assuption that everyone standing behind the counter at a gunshop is knowlegable, and the old guy at the counter at walmart is clueless is a bit shortsighted. Some of the worst customer service Ive received is from a small gunshop, and some of the best advice ive had was from an older gentleman who before retirement was gunsmith at Dan Wesson, and worked pt time at walmart for something to do.

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[chrisw]

What I call foolish is having to listen to the water heads behind the counter at these box stores. I will never buy a gun from a box store, never have never will and I average 3 gun purchases a month.


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"water heads" are on both sides of the counter, to say otherwise is obsurd. Shop where you want but I've seen my share of guys who knew everything about nothing come in too... Owning a lot of firearms doesn't make one knowledgeable about them.

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[steve863]

2 hours ago, philoshop said:

I went head-to-head and side-by-side with a bump-fire guy a few years ago. The bet involved 15 seconds of sustained fire with half the score involving amount of ammo fired, and half involving scores on target. It took us six tries before he could even get through the 15 second drill without a malfunction, and he put 3 of his 100 shots on target. I only shot about 40 rounds with my finger, but 75% of them were on target.

Focus on the steak, not the beans.

 

If his rifles grouped 15 inches at 100 yards,  and if several of them jammed along the way he still would have done the same amount of damage.  He had enough guns up there with him.  All he had to do was aim at the general direction of the crowd and he was bound to hit people.  Absolutely NO marksmanship involved in what he did.  All he had to do was pull the trigger and the weapons did the rest of the work.

. 

[Buckmaster7600]

"water heads" are on both sides of the counter, to say otherwise is obsurd. Shop where you want but I've seen my share of guys who knew everything about nothing come in too... Owning a lot of firearms doesn't make one knowledgeable about them.

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I agree with there being people buying guns that shouldn't be just as there are people selling them that shouldn't. In my experience gun shops tend to have more knowledgeable staff than big box stores, your mileage may be different.


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[Buckmaster7600]

2 things the box stores selling firearms do... First is keeping pricing in check, second it allows people who work odd hours access.. Now your assuption that everyone standing behind the counter at a gunshop is knowlegable, and the old guy at the counter at walmart is clueless is a bit shortsighted. Some of the worst customer service Ive received is from a small gunshop, and some of the best advice ive had was from an older gentleman who before retirement was gunsmith at Dan Wesson, and worked pt time at walmart for something to do.

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I don't see box stores keeping prices in check but I'm only going of the Flyers I get in the mail because I don't go in them. My your assumption that that I meant every one is incorrect, it was a generalization from my experiences. Never would I say that every person that stands at a gun counter of a box store is incompetent but unfortunately from my experiences at them the majority are. Your example is an exception and not the norm.


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[Doc]

It appears that the main target for new gun laws regards the "bump stock". I have no problem with that and it appears that the NRA has no serious concerns with looking closely at restrictions on those.

Since the 1934 National Firearms Act, we have had heavy restrictions on fully automatic firearms regarding possession, transfer and transport.  The bump stock is simply a loophole that has now officially been used in a criminal act. Close the loophole!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It appears that the main target for new gun laws regards the "bump stock". I have no problem with that and it appears that the NRA has no serious concerns with looking closely at restrictions on those.
Since the 1934 National Firearms Act, we have had heavy restrictions on fully automatic firearms regarding possession, transfer and transport.  The bump stock is simply a loophole that has now officially been used in a criminal act. Close the loophole!

I agree Doc but I wonder.
Since it technically only operates as a semi automatic, one round for each trigger pull. What's the over under on when the first anti suggests that since it's really a semi, why not pass a ban on semis

[chas0218]

14 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Increase the target size to a footprint occupied by hundreds or thousands of people and I can see the evil draw to using one

Basically all he was doing was spray and pray. Not hard to hit the side of the barn when you're standing 10' from it.

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

first anti suggests that since it's really a semi, why not pass a ban on semis

This is exactly what I'm worried about.

[Five Seasons]

14 hours ago, tuckersdaddy said:

2 things the box stores selling firearms do... First is keeping pricing in check, second it allows people who work odd hours access.. Now your assuption that everyone standing behind the counter at a gunshop is knowlegable, and the old guy at the counter at walmart is clueless is a bit shortsighted. Some of the worst customer service Ive received is from a small gunshop, and some of the best advice ive had was from an older gentleman who before retirement was gunsmith at Dan Wesson, and worked pt time at walmart for something to do.

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I'd say that's not the norm though. I've overheard some kids at dicks trying to sell compounds. it's scary.

[Five Seasons]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

It appears that the main target for new gun laws regards the "bump stock". I have no problem with that and it appears that the NRA has no serious concerns with looking closely at restrictions on those.

Since the 1934 National Firearms Act, we have had heavy restrictions on fully automatic firearms regarding possession, transfer and transport.  The bump stock is simply a loophole that has now officially been used in a criminal act. Close the loophole!

if there needs to be a sacrifice i'm not sure any real gun guy will care too much about the bump stock. 

[Buckmaster7600]

if there needs to be a sacrifice i'm not sure any real gun guy will care too much about the bump stock. 

In the political world you have to pick your fights, the left is all bent out of shape on these stupid things, frig it give it to them.

President Trump should make a big deal about it with a news conference where he says something like " today we fixed a bad deal, very bad deal very Very very very bad deal that President Obama allowed while he was in office... Make the left think they win and make them look stupid in the process.


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[The_Field_Ager]

The NYT pulls no punches

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/guns-second-amendment-nra.html

[The_Field_Ager]

'Bump stock' ban opposed by GOA

https://gunowners.org/bump-stock-ban-opposed-by-gun-owners-group-despite-nra-stance.htm

[The_Field_Ager]

 

[Doc]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 5:35 AM, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I agree Doc but I wonder.
Since it technically only operates as a semi automatic, one round for each trigger pull. What's the over under on when the first anti suggests that since it's really a semi, why not pass a ban on semis

The bump stock is not a semi automatic weapon. It is an accessory that in effect creates the function of a conversion to full auto. That for me is not a difficult thing to get behind eliminating.

[Doc]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:31 PM, Papist said:

 

I have to wonder if people like this also advocate the decriminalization of full auto weapons? Where do they draw the line? This guy didn't talk about that. Sorry but I'm on the NRA side of this. Full auto weapons have long been heavily restricted and controlled, and I think that full auto wannabes should be too.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The bump stock is not a semi automatic weapon. It is an accessory that in effect creates the function of a conversion to full auto. That for me is not a difficult thing to get behind eliminating.

I agree with restricting them. lol hey we're an end around move but you are wrong. They ARE semi automatic. One round fired for one trigger squeeze. That is why the ATF gave hem a pass.

[The_Field_Ager]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I have to wonder if people like this also advocate the decriminalization of full auto weapons? Where do they draw the line? 

And why not? The 2nd amendment is designed to protect the people from government tyranny. If the government has full auto weapons, so then should the people. There was a time when private armies, well equipped, were part of the American landscape. I would like to see that day again

Edited October 8, 2017 by Papist

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Papist said:

And why not? The 2nd amendment is designed to protect the people from government tyranny. If the government has full auto weapons, so then should the people. There was a time when private armies, well equipped, were part of the American landscape. I would like to see that day again

Well, I think I saw and heard enough in those videos of the Las Vegas attack to convince me that I don't really want to see full auto rifles on the street, or even anything that mimics full auto. I guess we all draw the line at different places. Some may want to stop at grenade launchers or flame throwers or bazookas or maybe small personal nukes ..... lol. I draw the line at full auto.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Doc

[The_Field_Ager]

Doc, there is nothing to prevent full autos on the street. Especially in a world where our own government is happy to sell them to violent foreign drug gangs. Reality bites hard at times. Chicago gangs have been using full auto weapons for decades

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-10/chicago-gangs-reportedly-agree-use-snipers-and-automatic-weapons-against-police

Edited October 8, 2017 by Papist

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Papist said:

Doc, there is nothing to prevent full autos on the street.......

And yet there seems to have been enough difficulty actually making the threat a reality such that they have not been a significant threat or presence since the late 30's. In fact even with this latest deal in Las Vegas, Paddock had to resort to an auto-wannabe instead of the real thing. This cobbled-up news story sounds a lot like someone creating their own news..... again. Anything for a headline .....eh?

[philoshop]

My earlier response regarding the head-to-head competition I had was perhaps irrelevant. If the target is several acres of human beings, spray-and-pray is probably an effective technique. Mea Culpa for bringing it up. However, it doesn't take a slide-fire device to do that.

On the other hand authorities are saying he had ballistics notes. If the bump-fire devices were being used with a spray-and-pray technique, ballistics tables wouldn't even come into play.

[Doc]

20 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I agree with restricting them. lol hey we're an end around move but you are wrong. They ARE semi automatic. One round fired for one trigger squeeze. That is why the ATF gave hem a pass.

Ok, I get the distinction you are making. It is a bit of a stretch but I get it.