Argument Over Shortening Gun Season

[gjs4]

And for the love of God- please stop posting that BS data from the DEC. Jeremy is the epitome of “numbers don’t lie only, liars use numbers” expression. The population here doesn’t have that age structure, let alone the harvest.


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[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, gjs4 said:

And for the love of God- please stop posting that BS data from the DEC. Jeremy is the epitome of “numbers don’t lie only, liars use numbers” expression. The population here doesn’t have that age structure, let alone the harvest.


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Do  you hunt private land or public because if you  hunt private  you have nothing to complain about .

And if you hunt public learn how to find them or just enjoy The Great Outdoors. Its called hunting for a reason .

You sound like you want to farm them .

 

 

[phade]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

Well if those guys are so fanatic about horn hunting they can just high fence there property and only shoot the big ones in it if horn is all they are looking for with out limiting other Hunters season  .

I don't buy the idea that guys that are shooting big bucks now would want a shorter season unless they  are shooting fenced deer and think a shorter season is going to some how make the wild deer grow into the fenced deer you see in some of those hunting shows . More then likely the guys who think like that are still going to be disappointed. Even if you shorten the season I would be willing to bet.

You seem to have a hard time with coming to terms with a lot of posts on this forum. Whether access or season related, etc. it seems understanding them is difficult to believe for you. Are you a new hunter?

Managing a resource at the macro and even micro level for the state is not "farming" as you put it. I don't know, maybe I have it all wrong or something. Maybe I am looking at it backwards. You worry about the human element; I tend to look at the resource first, and then back into what works for people and the resource.

I'll say this though, there's not many 23+ day regular seasons in the NE quadrant of the US. Two of them exist in NY.

Edited December 26, 2017 by phade

[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, phade said:

You seem to have a hard time with coming to terms with a lot of posts on this forum. Whether access or season related, etc. it seems understanding them is difficult to believe for you. Are you a new hunter?

Managing a resource at the macro and even micro level for the state is not "farming" as you put it. I don't know, maybe I have it all wrong or something. Maybe I am looking at it backwards. You worry about the human element; I tend to look at the resource first, and then back into what works for people and the resource.

I'll say this though, there's not many 23+ day regular seasons in the NE quadrant of the US. Two of them exist in NY.

Don't talk to  me about other states those other states you are talking about  deer hunting is big business they  live off the tropey hunting and guid hunting  business  in a lot of those states . And beside that they have very little population to  begin with.

It's like comparing apples to oranges. 

But what do I know only been hunting  for 35 years .

Besides you go and shorten the season your going to get more guys in the woods all at once potentially that means more chance for hunting accidents i dont think it will change anything for the good .

 

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Storm914

[phade]

3 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Don't talk to  me about other states those other states you are talking about  deer hunting is big business they  live off the tropey hunting and guid hunting  business  in a lot of those states . And beside that they have very little population to  begin with.

It's like comparing apples to oranges. 

But what do I know only been hunting  for 35 years .

 

 

In the NE US, there's not a lot of trophy deer hunting business going on, comparatively. The NE US is the most densely populated (human) portion of the whitetail range.

Not sure where you spent those 35 years, but it clearly wasn't in the sunshine.

 

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, phade said:

In the NE US, there's not a lot of trophy deer hunting business going on, comparatively. The NE US is the most densely populated (human) portion of the whitetail range.

Not sure where you spent those 35 years, but it clearly wasn't in the sunshine.

 

Was not talking about the NE 

[phade]

1 minute ago, Storm914 said:

Was not talking about the NE 

You just proved my point. You have a hard time understanding posts in this forum.

Best of luck to you.

[Hunter007]

13 minutes ago, phade said:

You just proved my point. You have a hard time understanding posts in this forum.

Best of luck to you.

What other states do has no relevance to what we do in this state the terrain is different the climate is different the population is  different the  genetics of the deer is difference. And the distribution of hunters is different.

Get a clue guy .  I guess you dont travel much .

Edited December 26, 2017 by Storm914

[nyantler]

On 12/8/2017 at 7:36 PM, Four Season Whitetails said:

The North needs a season like the South. 8-9-10 weeks of Gun season is way to much. People dont hunt later in the season because the deer disappear after heavy pressure the first few weeks.

I wonder sometimes where you guys come up with this stuff... most of the guys I know that hunt north do the exact opposite because of the chance of snow that time of year being greater. Do you even hunt the Northern Tier? Seems to me people like to make claims about places they don't even hunt.

[Robhuntandfish]

The states that have so called trophy hunting would prob love our long season as well. They have better trophies due to genetics, habitat and private land management. They could sell more hunting trips.  It has nothing to do with a shortened season.  I don't think we really care about the business part of hunting. At least I don't. Would speak for the everyday hunter and more options is always better.  

So if it's harder to catch bass in August we should close season....no. The deer numbers in NY show it supports the long season..... then keep it.  There isnt an argument that makes hunting better to have less of it!  

[nyantler]

On 12/8/2017 at 3:52 PM, Doc said:

I have to laugh when those arguments start about shortening the gun season (or not). Things have gone nearly completely quiet around here for the last couple of weeks. State parking lots are nearly deserted. Very few cars parked along side of the road. And almost no shooting at all going on. The whole argument is a joke from both sides. We are arguing over is a period deer hunting time that is virtually unused. The handful of deer that are taken in the later times of deer season, are not even significant. I wish that one year, the DEC would publish exact numbers per date. I think hunters on both sides of the issue of season length would see that the whole controversy means nothing at all.

HMMM so you're saying it won't put a big buck on every wall and bring an end to all deer conservation concerns ?????

[Four Season Whitetail's]

50 minutes ago, nyantler said:

I wonder sometimes where you guys come up with this stuff... most of the guys I know that hunt north do the exact opposite because of the chance of snow that time of year being greater. Do you even hunt the Northern Tier? Seems to me people like to make claims about places they don't even hunt.

Nah..own 900 acres but never step foot on it.  The snow excuse is weak at best as we hardly ever get any amount until December anyways and gun has already been open for 6-7 weeks by then.  Shorter season would help the herds in many ways with stress just being one of them.

If it takes a guy 6-7 weeks to fill a couple tags they need to either find another hunting area or take up golf.

[gjs4]

Do  you hunt private land or public because if you  hunt private  you have nothing to complain about .
And if you hunt public learn how to find them or just enjoy The Great Outdoors. Its called hunting for a reason .
You sound like you want to farm them .
 
 

Both.

I don’t know you, and obliviously you don’t know me....but finding them may be something I have a lot more skill than you at.

Point in being- your lack of self control and ability leaves the remainder of us cleaning the mess. Might as well say you can afford a doctor, I can’t- let’s have free healthcare kind of argument based on your comment on private.

I’m truly sorry about your lack of ability and success. Keep ruling the forum... we all look up to you.


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[gjs4]

One thing that jumps out at me is the relative size of our hunting population. Most states do not have this. Our public land opportunities are limited (unless you lump in the adk, Catskills) or areas w low hunter density.

Let’s face it that a large portion of the nz is nothing like the sz. We have multiple urban areas and hunter density in wNY, Syr, etc that is some of the highest in the country. Genetics, ag, soul quality all do matter BUT nothing trumps the age of our harvest. The college interns aging deer for the dec are clueless and the data reflects that. Remember a mature whitetail deer is 5. That doesn’t vary by region. That doesn’t stop w winter or any other factor beyond a lack of trigger control.

The only people that support a longer GUN season are those that don’t take off time or those that kill all they can. Here management is not what the state cares about, or even knows about (population census anyone?)... license sales. You can see the grass roots shift w habitat management but the majority of gun guys in the south want to expend little effort and maximum lead.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

The states that have so called trophy hunting would prob love our long season as well. They have better trophies due to genetics, habitat and private land management. They could sell more hunting trips.  It has nothing to do with a shortened season.  I don't think we really care about the business part of hunting. At least I don't. Would speak for the everyday hunter and more options is always better.  

So if it's harder to catch bass in August we should close season....no. The deer numbers in NY show it supports the long season..... then keep it.  There isnt an argument that makes hunting better to have less of it!  

 

One of the largest parts of private land management is managing the pressure that you put on the deer. You could have a bunch of nice bucks with perfect genetics, food and water sources coming out of your ears, prime bedding, funnels, etc as you want and still kill a very low number of those "trophy bucks" each year if you are pressuring them too much. That is what many people just dont understand.

For example, why do so many people have good luck with deer sightings during the last weekend of gun season and muzzle loader season? Because most people stopped going out hunting a week or two before that, so the deer are less pressured and feel safe moving during daylight again. Same goes for bow season, on average, hunters see more deer during daylight hours during early bow than during gun. Its all about pressure.

The advantage to short, broken up gun seasons is that it gives deer a break, and time to calm down and go back to their usual habits in between the seasons (aka pressure).

[Just Lucky]

I like the seasons the way they are in the southern zone. I hunt bow from oct. 1rst till first week end in Nov. I then switch to crossbow, starting this year till erd saturday in Nov.  I hunt gun till muzzloader then hunting season ends. I dont think its broke. I have good success. Oh and i take off time and pass on alot of deer till I decide to kill

[phade]

2 hours ago, Storm914 said:

What other states do has no relevance to what we do in this state the terrain is different the climate is different the population is  different the  genetics of the deer is difference. And the distribution of hunters is different.

Get a clue guy .  I guess you dont travel much .

Apparently NY is an Enigma that forces the state into some other dimension where the basic tenets of managing a resource are somehow different than the rest of the world. The DEC can't even make the most simple of changes without legislature approval; you are right, maybe NY is an enigma after all with deer management.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you about getting a clue; I genuinely thought you were having trouble understanding what people were saying on here. Now I just know you do.

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, gjs4 said:

Both.

I don’t know you, and obliviously you don’t know me....but finding them may be something I have a lot more skill than you at.

Point in being- your lack of self control and ability leaves the remainder of us cleaning the mess. Might as well say you can afford a doctor, I can’t- let’s have free healthcare kind of argument based on your comment on private.

I’m truly sorry about your lack of ability and success. Keep ruling the forum... we all look up to you.


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 your the one complaining about not having  any big deer to shoot not me. 

Maybe you should learn to be a better hunter or spend more time hunting .

That is the solution to your problem  not playing around with the season .

Bet you anything if they shorten it you would still be complaining anyway.

 

[Hunter007]

4 minutes ago, phade said:

Apparently NY is an Enigma that forces the state into some other dimension where the basic tenets of managing a resource are somehow different than the rest of the world. The DEC can't even make the most simple of changes without legislature approval; you are right, maybe NY is an enigma after all with deer management.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you about getting a clue; I genuinely thought you were having trouble understanding what people were saying on here. Now I just know you do.

Name exact states and what exactly they do that makes a difference in the size of bucks there . If you want to make a point 

[phade]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Name exact states and what exactly they do that makes a difference in the size of bucks there . If you want to make a point 

I'm done conversing with you. You can't read and understand - hell you couldn't even follow my post about the NE US. You still seem to have dyslexia when it comes to herd health being translated precisely to big bucks.

Enjoy.

[moog5050]

Storm

just so you know, both gjs4 and phade (and a few others on this thread advocating a shorter gun season) are pretty darn good at knocking down big bucks.  I realize you may not have the history on this site to know that.   You may disagree with their position on season length but don’t assume they can’t get it done in either a shorter or longer season.  Just an FYI.   

[Hunter007]

1 minute ago, phade said:

I'm done conversing with you. You can't read and understand - hell you couldn't even follow my post about the NE US. You still seem to have dyslexia when it comes to herd health being translated precisely to big bucks.

Enjoy.

North East is not a state .

Name a state please 

Don't just generalize

If you going to try and make a point 

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Storm

just so you know, both gjs4 and phade (and a few others on this thread advocating a shorter gun season) are pretty darn good at knocking down big bucks.  I realize you may not have the history on this site to know that.   You may disagree with their position on season length but don’t assume they can’t get it done in either a shorter or longer season.  Just an FYI.   

You take a poll how many guys  would want a shorter season

Most would say NO  

So does not matter what I or they think 

Most guys will be against it .

It is what it is .

And soon you will have full inclusion with crossbows .

Do you think that's going to help those bucks live to  get bigger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

21 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

You take a poll how many guys  would want a shorter season

Most would say NO  

So does not matter what I or they think 

Most guys will be against it .

It is what it is .

And soon you will have full inclusion with crossbows .

Do you think that's going to help those bucks live to  get bigger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

But look at the bright side   In 35 years of hunting I  see less and less hunters every year it seems like   . So the deer are going to get older here more then likely with out doing anything . 

So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season shorter 

Is that going to help license sales I doubt it.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Storm914

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

But look at the bright side   In 35 years of hunting I  see less and less hunters every year it seems like   . So the deer are going to get older here more then likely with out doing anything . 

So why would the state that already is losing money because of less hunting licenses being sold make the season sorter ?

Is that going to help license sales I doubt it.

Always good to check facts before assuming (second time recommended on this thread):

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

Hunting license sales are up not down over the past 10 years.  

And since you asked, no I don’t think crossbow inclusion will have any significant impact on the number of mature bucks in NY.  Just my opinion.