The future of deer hunting

[goosifer]

3 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

Its doomed now at even the young school children level.  Teachers in schools downplay gun's and the killing of animals. For every new child hunter that is into it there are 100 that are totally against it. That is why it will be a landowner only kinda thing and you will either pay for the land, Pay the other guy for use of the land or go hook up at your local hunting ranch in the future.

This has an aristocratic vibe to it. Or may a Robin Hood era "the king's forest" vibe. I understand what you are saying, and you may be right, but it's a bit disheartening. At a bigger picture level, I guess it relates to the idea that young kids just know that food comes from a grocery store, and have no idea what a farm or ranch is. 

[DirtTime]

7 hours ago, goosifer said:

I was inspired to start this thread based upon an exchange I had with Four Seasons Whitetails in the "Wonderful quote from the late Charlie Alsheimer" thread. See Post 1 and Post 2.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but I am not in a position to comment on the veracity of his statements. I've started doing some further research on the subject, and will share my findings here for further discussion and debate. From my perspective, it will be a work in progress/diary of sorts, as I add more links and information.

- - - - - - - -

One article I've come across so far is a Q&A with Gordon Wittingdon, the Editor of North American Whitetails magazine for 8/21/17. Some of his comments were similar to what 4SW said:

The full article is here: HOW DEER HUNTING HAS CHANGED AND ITS FUTURE - A Q&A WITH GORDON WHITTINGTON

- - - - - - - -

This view of the future saddens me. It seems to me that a lot of potential future hunters will get priced out of the market (reminds me of the housing market) or get frustrated and quit when they can't get the big buck like they see on TV. But if that is what they are taught to value . . . .

I hope I'm wrong.

Not another one of these threads!

America is the land of lazy parents and even lazier kids more or less. Not most of the folks on this site, but take a look around. Yeah, some outdoors minded parents teach their kids how to fish, hunt, and camp, but those parents are growing thin. Technology is killing being outdoors! So is fast food! 

Camping ( real camping in a tent ) was on a downward trend, but it's picking up again. I am hopeful that hunting takes the same turn.

If the only reason you hunt is for the antlers, good for you, hope you get a B&C every year!

If you hunt just to put food in the freezer, then you know what hunting is supposed to be about. 

 

 

EDIT: FSW, the new user name doesn't fit. A "Real World Hunter" doesn't hunt inside a fence, and isn't afraid to hunt deep in unknown territory. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Rob...

[gjs4]

gjs4, any thoughts on to what extent the issues you raise are specific to NYS? Might there be other states that aren't as affected by these factors, for whatever reason? (Just looking for a ray of hope.)

We don’t have it- however no one knows how to manage it. Put Biologist Supreme thinks urine is the issue. Come on- why are elk and mulies dropping like flies out west? It doesn’t have much more than a toe in the door here now.... but it won’t be long.

I totally agree w fsw posts too. Everything outdoors movie/show wise has the evil hunter and the good woods creatures. If you have kids that tone is non stop. I also got into a gun debate with the kids pediatrician in a rural area over her asking if there are guns in the home on the questionnaire.

It’s us and them..... and many of us are worse than them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeGuy]

Its doomed now at even the young school children level.  Teachers in schools downplay gun's and the killing of animals. For every new child hunter that is into it there are 100 that are totally against it. That is why it will be a landowner only kinda thing and you will either pay for the land, Pay the other guy for use of the land or go hook up at your local hunting ranch in the future.
Funny 186 views and very few comments?  Where are all the big dogs comments over here that post so freely on Charlies thread?    Typical !!!

Not necessarily true. My son is in pre-K in an area that should fall in the typical anti area. Last week he took an shed antler in for show and tell. There's actually a few other parents that hunt. His teacher has no hunters in the family but thought it was awesome he had the horn. He supposedly told the class that bucks grow new antlers every year and drop the old ones... I got no flak and was proud he decided he wanted to take the antler in. He's not even 4 yet. I think as parents / hunters / sportsman / gun owners we cannot be scared about the "what ifs". That's why that one QDMA article says to follow laws, because if we do everything according to the laws created for us, we are good. Now,if my son went in with a BB and said my dad loves to KILL tender little baby bucks, that might not go over well. Again, back to my suggestion of "mentoring" will go a long way for our favourite sport.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[goosifer]

8 hours ago, Rob... said:

Not another one of these threads!

America is the land of lazy parents and even lazier kids more or less. Not most of the folks on this site, but take a look around. Yeah, some outdoors minded parents teach their kids how to fish, hunt, and camp, but those parents are growing thin. Technology is killing being outdoors! So is fast food! 

Camping ( real camping in a tent ) was on a downward trend, but it's picking up again. I am hopeful that hunting takes the same turn.

If the only reason you hunt is for the antlers, good for you, hope you get a B&C every year!

If you hunt just to put food in the freezer, then you know what hunting is supposed to be about. 

 

 

EDIT: FSW, the new user name doesn't fit. A "Real World Hunter" doesn't hunt inside a fence, and isn't afraid to hunt deep in unknown territory. 

Rob, this thread isn't about hunting for antlers vs. hunting for meat. There are plenty of other threads and posts about that. This thread is about will there be anyone in the next generation hunting, and if so, under what conditions/circumstances. There have been some responses that have basically said that due to lack of access to hunting land in the future, the only hunting done will be hunting on private land at a cost, and futhermore, those future hunters will be hunting for horns. But that is not the same thing as what FSW usually says, that all hunting [today] is motivated by antlers. So I think you misinterpreted what this thread is intended to be about. Yeah, there are some posters that have strayed from the thread's topic, but I can't moderate that. Just look at the posts I've written in this thread to see my intentions for it.

[Robhuntandfish]

i think that parents dont mentor or get their kids into it as much cause there are less of us to mentor.  And back in the old days kids were more exposed to the outdoors cause they were going regardless.   Now most kids right from the beginning are less into hunting as they have so many other options and parents will let kids do and get into what interests them.  There are so many things available at a kids fingertips to do these days.  All the people i know that are parents are just on the run for extra curricular acitivities.  Then add in the computer abilities and next flix and games and texting and ..........  Back in the day if you told youre parents you were bored - they said go outside and do something..... so you did.  Just the cultural change alone will continue to drive down numbers of people interested in the shooting sports. One good trend has been that there are more girls interested in hunting these days.  But we cant mentor people that at such a your age arent already into hunting too often. Lets face it 90% of us got the interest from our fathers, i have several hunting buddies that have kids and they have taken them out , but they just arent interested cause they are into so many other things and have so many options.  Overall it might not be a bad thing for kids to have so many options in the world but it will continue to see a drop in interest in hunting .  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

5 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Rob, this thread isn't about hunting for antlers vs. hunting for meat. There are plenty of other threads and posts about that. This thread is about will there be anyone in the next generation hunting, and if so, under what conditions/circumstances. There have been some responses that have basically said that due to lack of access to hunting land in the future, the only hunting done will be hunting on private land at a cost, and futhermore, those future hunters will be hunting for horns. But that is not the same thing as what FSW usually says, that all hunting [today] is motivated by antlers. So I think you misinterpreted what this thread is intended to be about. Yeah, there are some posters that have strayed from the thread's topic, but I can't moderate that. Just look at the posts I've written in this thread to see my intentions for it.

No FSW said that hunters are drivin by antlers. Most every hunter hopes for the biggest beast in the woods to step out while they are sitting on watch! Period.

Goose you put up a great question that demands a true honest answer.  I am sure you see there are only like 8-10 guys with replies? Kinda makes ya wonder where all those other posters are that have viewed this  and failed to give a response?  

[goosifer]

2 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

No FSW said that hunters are drivin by antlers. Most every hunter hopes for the biggest beast in the woods to step out while they are sitting on watch! Period.

Goose you put up a great question that demands a true honest answer.  I am sure you see there are only like 8-10 guys with replies? Kinda makes ya wonder where all those other posters are that have viewed this  and failed to give a response?  

Sorry for the misquote. Thank you for correcting me.

It's a complicated subject, and my writing style is very verbose. This thread in particular, has an almost academic style to it. I'm sure there are many readers who start to read it, and then their eyes start to glaze over. It's OK. Like I said, it will be diary or journal of sorts, with links to related articles and web pages. Even with just the few articles I have posted and the responses I have recieved so far, I am learning more about the issue.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Sorry for the misquote. Thank you for correcting me.

It's a complicated subject, and my writing style is very verbose. This thread in particular, has an almost academic style to it. I'm sure there are many readers who start to read it, and then their eyes start to glaze over. It's OK. Like I said, it will be diary or journal of sorts, with links to related articles and web pages. Even with just the few articles I have posted and the responses I have recieved so far, I am learning more about the issue.

Yeah and a few on here that have posted crap on other threads wont touch this question with a 10 foot pole. Good thing because they would have to answer this question with an honest answer and when they did they would then get their responses on others threads shoved up their ---.    They know who they are and you can see all the names missing from this post.  Pretty funny to say the least. pushing 300 views.

I would also guess the more research you do you will find how much big antlers drive the hunting world. More so in other better hunting states that have DEC/DNR folks that know how to manage a herd and set seasons and harvest limits.

[goosifer]

17 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

. . . .I would also guess the more research you do you will find how much big antlers drive the hunting world. More so in other better hunting states that have DEC/DNR folks that know how to manage a herd and set seasons and harvest limits.

With regards to the future of hunting, will hunting for big antlers be a cause and/or an effect? If the supply of hunting land gets really tight and people will have to pay (one way or another) for access to hunting land, the antler hunters may be the only one's left as the meat and social hunters will be priced out of the market whereas antler hunters are willing to pay up. On the other hand, it could happen that antler hunters will be the one's restricting access to hunting land, either by buying it up or supporting ARs. So it seems like antler hunters, either as a cause and or consequence of decreased access to hunting land, could cause the number of hunters overall to decline. You may be OK with that, maybe even prefer that, but I can't help but feel that, as a whole, all deer hunters are worse off under those circumstances, if they were to come to pass in the future.

Edited January 16, 2018 by goosifer

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, goosifer said:

With regards to the future of hunting, will hunting for big antlers be a cause and/or an effect? If the supply of hunting land gets really tight and people will have to pay (one way or another) for access to hunting land, the antler hunters may be the only one's left as the meat hunters will be priced out of the market whereas antler hunters are willing to pay up. On the other hand, it could happen that antler hunters will be the one's restricting access to hunting land, either by buying it up or supporting ARs. So it seems like antler hunters, either as a cause and or consequence of decreased access to hunting land, could cause the number of hunters overall to decline. You may be OK with that, maybe even prefer that, but I can't help but feel that, as a whole, all deer hunters are worse off under those circumstances, if they were to come to pass in the future.

Money talks in todays world and if a meat hunter wanted to pay the price on one of my properties i would not care. Everyone will have the same chance as the other i am sure.  But...I would have to say you would be right that it will be the drive for bigger deer that will drive hunting whichever way it goes.  

Thats because the numbers are and will continue to be swayed to the side of inches over meat.  The hunters that are driven for antlers get just as much meat or more because big mature deer own lots of meat.

[Uncle Nicky]

I don't think deer hunting is doomed. I am sure it will be different within the next 20 or 30 years, antlers and competition for prime spots will be the major drivers.

We (being residents of fairly crowded states on the East Coast) see the changes in society and kids differently than those in less crowded parts of the country. There are still places in the US. where there really is very little for kids to do, beside hunt and fish, and those areas won't be changing much any time soon.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Uncle Nicky

[goosifer]

8 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

Money talks in todays world and if a meat hunter wanted to pay the price on one of my properties i would not care. Everyone will have the same chance as the other i am sure.  But...I would have to say you would be right that it will be the drive for bigger deer that will drive hunting whichever way it goes.  

Thats because the numbers are and will continue to be swayed to the side of inches over meat.  The hunters that are driven for antlers get just as much meat or more because big mature deer own lots of meat.

If so, it would be addition by subtraction. Antler hunters as a percentage of total hunters will go up, but the number of total hunters will go down. It's like why the unemployment rate is so low. There are a lot of good people who are hunters who may no longer be able to hunt/be the one's who get priced out. And there are a lot of potential future hunters that would benefit from hunting, but won't be given the opportunity to start because the people who would have been their hunting mentors can't afford to hunt. As a whole, it just seems like the population of hunters and/or society as a whole will be worse off. Maybe these trends are inevitable, and the industry-related business that are properly positioned to take advantage of these trends will benefit economically, and not worry so much about the impact on priced-out non-antler hunters.

[goosifer]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

I don't think deer hunting is doomed. I am sure it will be different within the next 20 years, antlers and competition for prime spots will be the major drivers.

We (being residents of fairly crowded states on the East Coast) see the changes in society and kids differently than those in less crowded parts of the country. There are still places in the US. where there really is very little for kids to do, beside hunt and fish, and those areas won't be changing much any time soon.

Don't underestimate the impact of technology/internet/social media on society, especially younger folks. It's really a mixed blessing.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

4 minutes ago, goosifer said:

If so, it would be addition by subtraction. Antler hunters as a percentage of total hunters will go up, but the number of total hunters will go down. It's like why the unemployment rate is so low. There are a lot of good people who are hunters who may no longer be able to hunt/be the one's who get priced out. And there are a lot of potential future hunters that would benefit from hunting, but won't be given the opportunity to start because the people who would have been their hunting mentors can't afford to hunt. As a whole, it just seems like the population of hunters and/or society as a whole will be worse off. Maybe these trends are inevitable, and the industry-related business that are properly positioned to take advantage of these trends will benefit economically, and not worry so much about the impact on priced-out non-antler hunters.

Very well possible. But such is life. There are winners and losers in everything in life, As long as the playing field started out fair the chips will fall where they shall. 

In business the ones that can see the future trends and be ready for that change will always be on top of the cutting edge and will profit from such. 

[Uncle Nicky]

2 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Don't underestimate the impact of technology/internet/social media on society, especially younger folks. It's really a mixed blessing.

Yes, but even the internet, Facebook, and video games get boring after a while. People need real life experiences, and there will always be a certain amount of folks who will want to get closer to the food chain. I'm thinking the biggest problem down the road won't be lack of interest, but severe gun restrictions if we allow the wrong politicians to get in control. I guess that alarms me more than anything else.

[turkeyfeathers]

Any statistics in how many hunting licenses were sold in 2017? Years past ? Betting very little difference. If not we can lock up the thread. 

[goosifer]

7 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

Very well possible. But such is life. There are winners and losers in everything in life, As long as the playing field started out fair the chips will fall where they shall. 

In business the ones that can see the future trends and be ready for that change will always be on top of the cutting edge and will profit from such. 

I can't argue with those statements. I think they are truisms that apply to anything/everything.

[goosifer]

post deleted. misunderstanding

Edited January 16, 2018 by goosifer
post deleted. misunderstanding

[turkeyfeathers]

2 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Why do you want to lock up the thread? Have I violated forum rules?

lol. No. I’m just curious to hunting doomed and # of licenses sold over the years by comparison 

[rob-c]

Land to hunt on is going to be the biggest battle or affording it. Second is not getting the  instant gratification, setting in a tree stand for hours and hours only to see one deer will not cut it for the younger generation . Even though there’s tons of critters and things to observe when passing the time. 

My oldest likes to hunt but my youngest could care less, he liked to shoot but hunting he says is boring. My oldest herd him say that and he gets it , he says it’s all about the excitement of  when you will see a deer..

Edited January 16, 2018 by rob-c

[moog5050]

Everyone that mentioned the impact of technology and resulting immediate gratification as harming hunting in the future is on the mark in my opinion.  I don't know whether access will be an issue (for some), but I don't think it will be primary reason that we see less hunters in the future.  Living in a non-rural environment, access always seems difficult, but if you want to find land to hunt, be it public or private, a motivated person will find a way.  Lack of motivation, however, due to what many of the younger generation see as a boring endeavor is much more difficult to overcome.  I have introduced both of my children to shooting, archery, fishing and hunting.  My son shows very little interest in anything but fishing (and even then he has to be doing something, can't just troll).  My daughter, on the other hand, is ready to hunt and fish at a moment's notice.  So not all kids are the same. 

In the end, its tough to beat the impact that technology has on a society as a whole.  As an example, when is the last time people had the patience to correspond by a letter.  Now its texts face time.  People expect and even demand an immediate response.  Same is true for entertainment.  It better be fast and furious or no one pays attention.  Unfortunately, hunting just doesn't fit that bill of expectations. 

Interest in hunting has diminished because expectations of today's youth are different now than they were only 20 years ago.  My daughter actually asked me what a home phone was yesterday.  Talk about feeling old all of a sudden.  lol  All we can do is try our best to show our children and others the joys of nature, peaceful quiet and even patient anticipation (whether it ever comes to fruition or not).  Hopefully it takes hold.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

lol. No. I’m just curious to hunting doomed and # of licenses sold over the years by comparison 

. One could say a hit was taken.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goosifer]

6 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

lol. No. I’m just curious to hunting doomed and # of licenses sold over the years by comparison 

I will try to get some data on hunting license sales. I will say though that there are trends in play that might not yet be reflected in recent hunting license sales, but that could be a factor in the future like CWD.

[turkeyfeathers]

3 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

. One could say a hit was taken.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for finding that. Interesting numbers that stagger from year to year