coyotes

[Cabin Fever]

AHHHH... Deer hunters porn!! Now that's what I like to see!! Dead coyotes!! LOL

nycoyotehounds - I hope the date was just wrong in the bottom pic. Don't recall that much snow on 8/2/09!! LOL  Nice job taking them out! How many do you usually get in a season?

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

Well we do get alot of snow around here....I never can figure the dang date thing out on the camera

[gutpile]

Cabin Fever you want to see the research results go on line and search its there. Fact is in the west the coyote was probably the most persecuted animal ever poison baits set guns you name it they used it for decades to kill coyotes. Guess what it didn't work.

What is interesting in that article is the chicago Quiznos incident. By the time they got a wildlife specialist on scene the coyote had been in the store several hours. It just came in and took a nap near the coolers it never ate anything. Now knowing the dietary habits of coyotes you have to ask yourself: Do I really want to eat food rejected by a coyote?

[burmjohn]

I don't want to eat food a yote doesn't reject either

[132 eight pointer]

Spring turkey hunting this year, my cousin and I came across 5 dead coyote pups.Strewn around within 50 yds of each other.Some were chewed on but none were eaten.Kind of made the hair on my neck stand up as the smell of death was strong. ??? Still heard turkeys gobbling.

[burmjohn]

What would have done that?

[wztirem]

What would have done that?

A Turkey? ;D

[132 eight pointer]

I was wondering that myself. Are coyotes territorial?

[gutpile]

There could be several reasons those pups were dead. One could be that there was an insufficient food supply for the mother and she abandoned them. They could have had fatal birth defects in which case momma would kill them just like a cat will do with kittens. It could have been a first litter for the bitch many times as a Vey Tech I've heard stories of dogs and cats abandoning a first litter in those cases usually owners take over momma's duties but coyotes have no such help. A large hawk may have knocked them off as they compete for the same food sources. There are a bunch of other things that could be the cause but without a necropsy (called autopsy in humans aut coming from the latin autus meaning self).

I'd tell you what I've learned as a scientist about coyotes and their biology, habits, and preferred foods but my experience shows most hunters vehemently reject them. And insist they be eradicated which history shows is next to immpossible. Coyotes are noble animals man almost caused the extinction of wolves but their efforts at eradicating coyotes was and will continue to be a dismal failure. Population control on the other hand is possible and practical. One little tidbit I would share with you. when coyotes move into an area red fox (a non native species) populations drop like a stone but after a number of years the survivors the ones that learned to avoid coyotes repopulate. I can attest to this as in the last five years I'm catching increasing numbers of reds on the trap line. To the point over the last two years doubles and triples on reds have increased dramatically on my trap line. Even though i'm still catching the same number of coyotes. Grey fox populations (a native species) have a unique advantage from coyote predation. Anybody know what their secret is?

[growalot]

Bear...fox...    real small pups?      fox ....marten...ferrets....raccoon.... domestic dogs....wild pigs???

[nyslowhand]

Grey fox populations (a native species) have a unique advantage from coyote predation. Anybody know what their secret is?

They think they are other young yotes or their cousins???

Come on tell me, can't stand the suspense!

[Pygmy]

Because they can climb trees and coyotes can't..

Or perhaps they just don't TASTE good... .....

Actually, I have heard lots of tales regarding coyote depredation on red foxes... When coyotes first became common here, rumor was that the red fox population would plummet...

They may eat them if they catch them, but I don't think foxes are very easy to catch...

It seems that in the last 20 years or so, since coyotes have become more numerous here in the southern tier, red foxes have also become more numerous.. A friend of mine who traps typically catches about 30 coyotes and about 80 red foxes per year.. Doesn't sound like the 'yotes are putting much of a dent in the fox population..

The animal that HAS become more scarce is the woodchuck, at least the ones that den in hayfields...There are still woodchucks around, but most of them are living in road ditches or people's yards..I think that coyotes are more efficient at catching woodchucks that den in open fields than at catching foxes..

[gutpile]

Pygmy you hit the nail on the head Greyfox can climb trees.

[nyslowhand]

Ohh crap, I lost!

Pygmy you're a dawg.

[Doc]

I would suspect that a larger impact on the fox population from coyotes would come more in the form of additional canine diseases because of the extra canine population. Also, the additional pressure put on food sources may impact fox populations.

I'll say one thing, I have seen how fast and agile a fox is, and I think a coyote has it's work cut out for it when it comes to them trying to make a meal out of a fox. I won't say it can't be done, but I think a coyote has a whole lot of other easier meals to catch. I had a little episode with a fox "jumping the string" at about 7 yards. I've seen flies with slower reflexes. He jumped straight up and the arrow went under him, and he hit the ground running like a streak. I don't think there is anything that could have caught him (not even a coyote), certainly not my arrow....lol.

Doc

[sweet old bill]

it use to be that rabbits had a cycle of about 7 years from a low amount to the high amount and then mange would get into the rabbit population and that would kill them off. This would get into the fox as well and cause them to also be on the low side. After reading about the yotes it sure seems that nothing will kill them off. Out west for years they would bate, posion, have a open season and yes now they do have I think a major impact on NY. I sure would like to see NY have a true open season on them...

[nyslowhand]

Don't know about the mange part, but small game & predators do share population cycle trends.

Your suggestion for an open season on coyotes is probably the best option, but will never happen.

Imagine hunting state land and letting loose with a shotgun or rifle and having campers within hearing distance?

Wouldn't be too long before you hear the sirens. May not get a summons, but will have some very upset people.

I've hunted state land for turkeys in the past. Fact of life - have to deal with the campers, hikers, their dogs, horeback riders, etc.

So what's the solution? Restrict lawful firearm, restrict available public land hunting, combination of both?

Open season entire state, shotgun/bow only state land & all other areas unrestricted firearm from Oct. - Apr.

Then Apr. - Oct., private land only with unrest firearm. Gotta be a happy medium to keep their population under control.

IMHO -Not too crazy about allowing rifle hunting for coyotes in areas that don't allow them for big game.

The potential for the disregard for the safety of others in semi-densely populated rural areas is too high.

Assumption is the universal 5% rule of thumb will prevail. 95% will hunt safely and the remainder......

[Doc]

It's interesting to note that just about all animals in nature have some form of predator that plays a role in population control except for the coyote here in the east. About the only thing that will keep any kind of control on them is disease or starvation, oh and perhaps the occasional car or two....lol. But in the big scheme of things, it appears that in order to keep their existance healthy through population thinning, it is kind of left up to humans to step in and perform that activity as the next higher life-form on the food chain. It really does not make a whole lot of sense to keep us from doing that job by closing the season for a good portion of the year. I don't know how effective a year around season would really wind up being in terms of population control, but I can't picture any particular harm that removing the protected status of coyotes would really do either and it just might help us perform the role of population control just a little bit better.

Doc

[Doc]

Imagine hunting state land and letting loose with a shotgun or rifle and having campers within hearing distance?

Wouldn't be too long before you hear the sirens. May not get a summons, but will have some very upset people.

I've hunted state land for turkeys in the past. Fact of life - have to deal with the campers, hikers, their dogs, horeback riders, etc.......

Actually, the state land next to me is alive with gunfire throughout the summer months. I haven't a clue what they are shooting at ...... probably each other. But there really doesn't seem to be any actual "shooting free" times of the year on state land around here. It's amazing, some of those guys get on their semi-autos and it sounds like they simply have a mission to burn up ammo.

Now, so far I have not seen any campers there or horseback riders. I'm not sure those activities are even allowed. But we do have a constant parade of hikers and mountain bikers crawling all over the hill That seem to accept co-existance with the summertime gunslingers.

So anyway, long story short, non-hunters already put up with shooting on state land, so I doubt that the occasional and rare shot at a coyote would really bother anybody.

Doc

[Landowner]

Good morning all.

My wife went to West Point yesterday for my son’s football game. On their way home on 218 they saw a very large coyote, my son said they seen a jogger on the opposite side of the road at the same time they saw the coyote. My son had said this was as tall as the guys waist. I have never heard of one being so big.

Could this have been a WOLF?

Landowner

(

[gutpile]

I know the NY record for coyote is a bit over 80lbs so they can get pretty large I've trapped several that topped fifty. I once had a guy tell me he saw a forty pound red fox on his farm; during the trapping season I caught a yote that was as red as any redfox I've ever seen.

As to shooting year round on state land there is an area not to far from me where there is an area that is an unofficial target range. The only thing they get really upset over is people using things like glass bottles, old dishes, and etc as targets. And campers, hikers, and etc avoid the area like the plague. What worries me about a year round hunting season is that some hiker or biker could possibly move undetected into the line of fire just as you squeeze off at a yote. There are rules in effect to take care of the problem yote the ones attacking livestock or in residential areas where they may become aggressive to people.

One thing I've found is at different times a lot of the yotes I catch have mange but the fox are clean. Mange is spread through direct contact. All animals including man have some mange mites (there are 2 sarcoptes and demodex) usually they only present a problem when the immune system is suppressed by other factors like poor nutrition etc. Most are species specific you don't find dog fleas on cats.

Funny story: One year while deer hunting i came on a pond that had a skin of ice on it covered in snow. I could see tracks on the ice and went to have a look see. They were red fox tracks and there was an area where the ice was broke up along the shore a little more looking turned up coyote tracks leading to the spot and circling around the pond. Conclusion fox was being hunted by a coyote and the ice on the pond was thick enough to support the fox but not the yote. Question is was the fox that smart or that lucky? As the tracks left the pond in opposite directions.

[nyslowhand]

WOW, neat story.

Must have been a lengthy standoff!

Bet the fox was nervous to say the least!!

Would have made a great video.