Meat or Antlers

[moog5050]

12 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Moog, turn around in your chair and start typing on the wall you’ll get more comprehension, even on that 1 day meat isn’t more important because even though you’re going out for meat if a small buck walks by your not going to shoot it because then you won’t have a tag to chase ANTLERS.

 

 

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You know you may be right.  I don't consider myself a pure trophy hunter, but maybe I am.  lol

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Steuben Jerry said:

 

So hunt for what you like, meat, antlers, or experience, and respect other's choices as long as they're legal and ethical.

 

 

as long as it's not with a crossbow 

[Buckmaster7600]

You know you may be right.  I don't consider myself a pure trophy hunter, but maybe I am.  lol

See you’ve seen the light unlike some people.


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[Nomad]

I gotta say meat .

Ive taken from one to four deer a year,  every year since idk mid ‘80s, there have been years I did not take a buck , and it did not bother me as much as a couple years it seemed like I wasn’t going to kill anything . I gotta grill some back straps and have Tony make me slim sticks !

I’ve given most of my antlers away, and just sawed them off last years, the other day, the dog chews on them in the driveway .

Edited May 3, 2018 by Stay at home Nomad

[dbHunterNY]

not as Wolc would simply understand it but my answer is antlers.  i've never gone a season without harvesting deer and putting meat in the freezer, but if i don't take a good buck i feel the season was a bit unfulfilled.  i won't take a small buck just for meat. there's somewhere in this state that doe need to be taken.  I've gone some years without any antlers and can still be happy and call it a success. still, more would be left to desire i guess.  if it weren't for antlers i wouldn't be driven to fill the freezer so soon. i also probably wouldn't be as proficient as i am at filling the freezer if i didn't hunt for antlers, but instead took advantage of the easiest opportunity for meat that presents itself. also our hunting industry, that i'm thankful for to give me abundant options, is largely driven by antlers. also antlers give me time shared with others in the form of camp fire stories to tell and to listen to. tag me with whatever label you'd like, but those are reasons that come to mind.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

not as Wolc would simply understand it but my answer is antlers.  i've never gone a season without harvesting deer and putting meat in the freezer, but if i don't take a good buck i feel the season was a bit unfulfilled.  i won't take a small buck just for meat. there's somewhere in this state that doe need to be taken.  I've gone some years without any antlers and can still be happy and call it a success. still, more would be left to desire i guess.  if it weren't for antlers i wouldn't be driven to fill the freezer so soon. i also probably wouldn't be as proficient as i am at filling the freezer if i didn't hunt for antlers, but instead took advantage of the easiest opportunity for meat that presents itself. also our hunting industry, that i'm thankful for to give me abundant options, is largely driven by antlers. also antlers give me time shared with others in the form of camp fire stories to tell and to listen to. tag me with whatever label you'd like, but those are reasons that come to mind.

Bingo!! Just like the other 95%. Hell even Wolc wishes he could kill a real buck every morning but that love of that 30lbs of milk saturated button buck meat overpowers him.


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[dbHunterNY]

6 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Bingo!! Just like the other 95%. Hell even Wolc wishes he could kill a real buck every morning but that love of that 30lbs of milk saturated button buck meat overpowers him.


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i had to pick one or the other. if he asked why i hunt, both would be toward the bottom of a very long list. all of it is intertwined and relative to one another though. not sure why the need to segregate us into different groups based on some kind of subjective worth. each morning we all hope to hunt during some season that year and would like to ensure we can in the future years to come. that's about as simplified as you could make it regarding what's important as a hunter. antlers will be there in some degree that part of a bigger picture.

[wolc123]

7 hours ago, moog5050 said:

You know you may be right.  I don't consider myself a pure trophy hunter, but maybe I am.  lol

Thanks, I am now able to decipher what way you lean, without any assumptions or advanced math .  I will take you out of the "undecided" category and put you in with the (7) others who have clearly stated that antlers are MORE important than meat to them as deer hunters.  That brings the "antler" total to 19 % , Dom brings the "meat" total to 45 %, and just 36 % of those polled are still undecided.   The total number polled now stands at 42.    

I have often said how much I appreciate the trophy hunters, and that includes those who lean that way, but I think it is worth repeating.  The "baby" bucks you pass on may end up saving me a few trips to the store to buy chicken and turkey (neither of which I care for).   While you are not a "pure" trophy hunter, I may be a "pure" meat hunter, at this stage of my life.  I leaned a bit more towards antlers before the kids and their growing appetites.  I have passed a few smaller-antlered bucks (it has been about 7 years since I killed one without at least three points on a side), but the only reason for that is because the larger-antlered ones usually come with more meat.  I have yet to kill a buck of any size, and later regret it, because a larger one shows up later and I had no tag.  I will admit that my effort drops way off after our year's supply of meat is secured, and I no longer have a buck tag. 

I do most of my own processing and that is the primary reason why I much prefer killing bucks over does.  I can always get thru the bucks faster, because they always have less fat to trim.  Getting that fat out makes the meat taste and keep better.  I consider any season to be completely successful, only if a year's supply of meat is secured (at this point that is about 200 pounds of boneless) and both buck tags are filled.    Button bucks are a nice bonus.      

As far as the button bucks go, the last one I shot myself was 6 years ago (on the same morning when I killed my second largest ever antlered buck in the afternoon), I also finished off a hit-and-run road-kill with a knife at the end of our driveway 4 years ago, and received a "gift" from a buddy 2 years ago, on opening day of gun season.  At least we have been able to eat a couple thru the drought.  We have been blessed with one about every other year for 36 years, so I am due for another this season.   Good luck to you this season, regardless of what your motivation to hunt is.      

Edited May 3, 2018 by wolc123

[Dinsdale]

11 hours ago, Belo said:

 

I'd also add that while yes we're out shooting deer for venison, I think some also use the fact that they eat what they kill as justification for horn hunting. "It's ok I shoot bucks, because I eat them". Probably a small percentage, but still some do. Think of the elephant hunter. He's not eating it, but justifies it because the village will... meanwhile all he takes home is a head.

If I substitute "trophy hunter" for "elephant" you'd be surprised I think at the myriad of answers that folks would give as to why they are willing to hunt without being able to bring home anything but the "head" ( in full disclosure I'm one of them, no secret there).

I always am and the answers are all over the place, and it generates interesting and often heated debate on forums that are skewed to those type of hunts. 

And for some reason there's always someone who wants to put it a quantitative number set. Worthless there too other than generating some discussion. LOL

 

 

[Doc]

You know, my reasons for hunting go much farther than just deer. I mean, really, my hunting interests began with pigeons, squirrels and rabbits. It had nothing to do with antlers. I'm not even sure that getting into hunting had a lot to do with the meat, because I always sat down to a real meal of whatever our farm produced, and there was no need to feed ourselves from the woods. So for me, my hunting has nothing to do with antlers or meat. In fact some of the things that I have hunted had neither antlers or anything that I would care to eat. I ran a trapline for a bunch of years, and again it wasn't about antlers or meat. So, perhaps the choices are bogus. Maybe there is really something else at work when I step out the door to go hunting.

[erussell]

16 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Bingo!! Just like the other 95%. Hell even Wolc wishes he could kill a real buck every morning but that love of that 30lbs of milk saturated button buck meat overpowers him.


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I honestly can't tell the difference between the taste of a button buck and a 3 yr old. I think it's all in the handling.  My 3 ur old's are just as tender as any button or doe. In fact ive had a few doe that were way gameier and tougher than any 3 yr old bucks ive shot.

Edited May 4, 2018 by erussell

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I honestly can't tell the difference between the taste of a button buck and a 3 yr old. I think it's all in the handling.  My 3 ur old's are just as tender as any button or doe. In fact ive had a few doe that were way gameier and tougher than any 3 yr old bucks ive shot.

True That. Don't ask him how a 3 year old deer tastes. Well I guess someone could have givin him a steak or two to try.


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[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

If I substitute "trophy hunter" for "elephant" you'd be surprised I think at the myriad of answers that folks would give as to why they are willing to hunt without being able to bring home anything but the "head" ( in full disclosure I'm one of them, no secret there).

I always am and the answers are all over the place, and it generates interesting and often heated debate on forums that are skewed to those type of hunts. 

And for some reason there's always someone who wants to put it a quantitative number set. Worthless there too other than generating some discussion. LOL

 

 

i agree. I honestly don't even know how I feel about "trophy hunting". There are many benefits for the economy, also much of the revenue goes to breed and protect the animals. I think if there's any detractor for me, it's that some ignorant folks group the lion killer in with the guy who shoots a few doe to feed his family lean organic meat. Overall, I'm obviously pro hunting, and this is an interesting civil discussion we've had (for once). 

I honestly am not sure I would deer hunt if I couldn't eat the meat... but I also don't think I'm a "meat hunter". i still reside with the group who doesn't believe there has to be a choice. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

It's May and I just spent $150 on a clearance set of snow camo from midway. I might be lucky to use it 2 or 3 times a year. I can promise you I wouldn't have made that purchase if I was only worried about putting meat in the freezer

[Five Seasons]

19 hours ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

it did not bother me as much as a couple years it seemed like I wasn’t going to kill anything . I gotta grill some back straps and have Tony make me slim sticks !

 

100% agree with that. Have had some tough "antler" years, but nothing is worse than thinking you might have an empty freezer. Especially if you were all picky choosy during the early season.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, erussell said:

I honestly can't tell the difference between the taste of a button buck and a 3 yr old. I think it's all in the handling.  My 3 ur old's are just as tender as any button or doe. In fact ive had a few doe that were way gameier and tougher than any 3 yr old bucks ive shot.

for some cuts like chops yes it's about the same. but I think the steaks on a 1.5 will always be better than a 3.5. I dont care how you handle it.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Belo

[wolc123]

13 hours ago, Belo said:

for some cuts like chops yes it's about the same. but I think the steaks on a 1.5 will always be better than a 3.5. I dont care how you handle it.

 

15 hours ago, erussell said:

I honestly can't tell the difference between the taste of a button buck and a 3 yr old. I think it's all in the handling.  My 3 ur old's are just as tender as any button or doe. In fact ive had a few doe that were way gameier and tougher than any 3 yr old bucks ive shot.

Everbody's tastes are different, if they were not then there would only be one kind of beer.   I don't notice any difference in the taste of venison, but I do notice a big difference in texture.    It is all about allowing adequate time for the rigor mortis to come out of the meat before freezing it.   Rigor mortis starts as soon as the carcass begins to cool and within 8 hours, it reaches it's max.   If you freeze the deer then, it will be very tough to chew, but not taste any different   How long it takes to come out depends on the temperature of the surroundings and the age of the deer.  Freezing will lock it in, and higher temperature will allow it to come out faster.  The older the deer, the longer it takes to come out.    Temperatures over 50 are bad because bacteria will grow.   

Most of the deer I have processed were 1-1/2 years old, however there have been a fair number of 2-1/2' s and a few 3-1/2's.   The 1-1/2's take about a week at 33-50 F for the rigor mortis to come out, the 2-1/2's & 3-1/2's about 10 days.  I can not tell the difference in taste or texture of any of the cuts of 1-1/2 thru 3-1/2 year old deer if they are aged this way.  6 month olds are definitely in a different class when it comes to texture.   With them, the rigor mortis is minimal.  I usually process them after only a day of hanging and they still melt in your mouth.    

Hanging deer with the hide off in an open area for extended periods is a bad idea because the outer layer will dry up and need to be cut off before processing, costing you lots of meat and time.  Leaving the hide on will eliminate that, and also insulate against minor temperature swings.   That said, I usually remove the hide the day prior to processing and never had them dry out much after just 24 hours without the hide on.   That splits up the work load a little better and allows more time for trimming off all the fat (especially important on does).   

The internet is a great tool for all this stuff and probably explains why meat is starting to gain so much compared to antlers in what drives folks to hunt deer.   5 years ago, the number of those who said antlers were more important may have been higher.  Times change though, and more and more people are realizing just what a fine source of "organic" meat, the free-range whitetail deer provides.  The results of this poll just might indicate that the days of "antler worship" are behind us.      

[Four Season Whitetail's]

8 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 

Everbody's tastes are different, if they were not then there would only be one kind of beer.   I don't notice any difference in the taste of venison, but I do notice a big difference in texture.    It is all about allowing adequate time for the rigor mortis to come out of the meat before freezing it.   Rigor mortis starts as soon as the carcass begins to cool and within 8 hours, it reaches it's max.   If you freeze the deer then, it will be very tough to chew, but not taste any different   How long it takes to come out depends on the temperature of the surroundings and the age of the deer.  Freezing will lock it in, and higher temperature will allow it to come out faster.  The older the deer, the longer it takes to come out.    Temperatures over 50 are bad because bacteria will grow.   

Most of the deer I have processed were 1-1/2 years old, however there have been a fair number of 2-1/2' s and a few 3-1/2's.   The 1-1/2's take about a week at 33-50 F for the rigor mortis to come out, the 2-1/2's & 3-1/2's about 10 days.  I can not tell the difference in taste or texture of any of the cuts of 1-1/2 thru 3-1/2 year old deer if they are aged this way.  6 month olds are definitely in a different class when it comes to texture.   With them, the rigor mortis is minimal.  I usually process them after only a day of hanging and they still melt in your mouth.    

Hanging deer with the hide off in an open area for extended periods is a bad idea because the outer layer will dry up and need to be cut off before processing, costing you lots of meat and time.  Leaving the hide on will eliminate that, and also insulate against minor temperature swings.   That said, I usually remove the hide the day prior to processing and never had them dry out much after just 24 hours without the hide on.   That splits up the work load a little better and allows more time for trimming off all the fat (especially important on does).   

The internet is a great tool for all this stuff and probably explains why meat is starting to gain so much compared to antlers in what drives folks to hunt deer.   5 years ago, the number of those who said antlers were more important may have been higher.  Times change though, and more and more people are realizing just what a fine source of "organic" meat, the free-range whitetail deer provides.  The results of this poll just might indicate that the days of "antler worship" are behind us.      

31/2 ??  Doe's i take it?

[wolc123]

12 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

31/2 ??  Doe's i take it?

With does, I assume any with fawns are are at least 2-1/2 but with bucks I go by the size of the skull.  The 8-point on the left is a typical free-range 3-1/2 for this area while the 9-point on the right is a typical 2-1/2.   Note the difference in the width and length of the skulls.  I do not do euros of the 1-1/2's, but they are about the same amount smaller than the 2-1/2, as the 2-1/2 are than the 3-1/2.   Inside your fence, I am sure you exceed the proportions of these two bucks at 2-1/2 and 1-1/2 years, but not without some heavy investment in food and upkeep.   A hunting licence and a  $1.00 foster slugs is a lot cheaper for me.   

[Four Season Whitetail's]

4 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

With does, I assume any with fawns are are at least 2-1/2 but with bucks I go by the size of the skull.  The 8-point on the left is a typical free-range 3-1/2 for this area while the 9-point on the right is a typical 2-1/2.   Note the difference in the width and length of the skulls.  I do not do euros of the 1-1/2's, but they are about the same amount smaller than the 2-1/2, as the 2-1/2 are than the 3-1/2.   Inside your fence, I am sure you exceed the proportions of these two bucks at 2-1/2 and 1-1/2 years, but not without some heavy investment in food and upkeep.   A hunting licence and a  $1.00 foster slugs is a lot cheaper for me.   

What no pic with you in them? With the kill?  I mean come on now, You throw pics up of these Pa chest measured 120 pounders and does but none with your top deer ever?

[wolc123]

3 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

What no pic with you in them? With the kill?  I mean come on now, You throw pics up of these Pa chest measured 120 pounders and does but none with your top deer ever?

It is hard to be humble, but I try my best.  I notice you do not post too many pictures of yourself either.  Do you notice the increasing importance of meat with deer hunters lately ?  Has your business been effected by that ?  We use to have folks dropping off deer all the time, that they did not want to eat, but the last few years, it has been almost all on me to keep the family fed.   I think it is the internet, smart-phones, and the "organic" food movement that has caused the change.     

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

It is hard to be humble, but I try my best.  I notice you do not post too many pictures of yourself either.  Do you notice the increasing importance of meat with deer hunters lately ?  Has your business been effected by that ?  We use to have folks dropping off deer all the time, that they did not want to eat, but the last few years, it has been almost all on me to keep the family fed.   I think it is the internet, smart-phones, and the "organic" food movement that has caused the change.     

Yeah...Kinda the reply i figured i would get. 

[wolc123]

14 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

What no pic with you in them? 

I gave you my right arm, how much more do you need ?

[DirtTime]

5 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 I think it is the internet, smart-phones, and the "organic" food movement that has caused the change.     

Yet here you are using the WWW to promote your propaganda. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Yet here you are using the WWW to promote your propaganda. 

LOL...And no doubt pic's of Grandpa.Dad;s or uncle Al's bucks from years gone past.  To quick to throw up all those baby bucks not to have kill pic;s of the biggest ever.