Putting in new food plots

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Any thing that cuts into the soil can disrput the fungal community and soil integrity. Yes it just rolls over the soil, but it also has to cut down into it first in order to roll it over. the fungal community surrounds roots and old root structures commonly, and when you plough a feild, it disrupts these. Rot structures also play an important roll in soil integrity. If you'd like I think I can still find a number of studies outlining the impacts of ploughing. 

So then wouldnt discing or using a harrow do the same thing as well? I dont have the $ to buy a no till drill, so what other option would I have? These areas are never going to be anything other than food plots or allowed to go back to brush/woods, so what would it really be harming?

[ATbuckhunter]

7 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

So then wouldnt discing or using a harrow do the same thing as well? I dont have the $ to buy a no till drill, so what other option would I have? These areas are never going to be anything other than food plots or allowed to go back to brush/woods, so what would it really be harming?

There are different levels of impact with differnt impliments. Discing will impact what I wrote earlier, but not nearly as much as a plough. Unfortunately you are correct a no till drill is expensive which is keeping a lot of people from utilizing it. Depending on what you want to plant, I would just use the disc and harrow along with some glyphosate aplications some years. I personally will be buying a no till drill when i buy a piece of property, but it is a large chunk of money so I can understand being hesitant to buy it. Its not the end of the world to use a plough, especially since you arent a farmer looking to increase his yield. Use what you have on you and then you can decide what you'd like to do in the future. It can how ever help out in times od drought. Dr. Grant woods of growingdeertv does a great job in explaining the benefits of not ploughing. 

[stubborn1VT]

I agree that there are advantages to not-till.  I get a kick out of the idea that plowing is horrible, but spraying with glyph is A-ok. 

I know there is no perfect solution, but the current no-till program in the U.S. will do much more harm than decades of mortar board plowing.  Just my opinion.

[ATbuckhunter]

33 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

I agree that there are advantages to not-till.  I get a kick out of the idea that plowing is horrible, but spraying with glyph is A-ok. 

I know there is no perfect solution, but the current no-till program in the U.S. will do much more harm than decades of mortar board plowing.  Just my opinion.

I personally hate the idea of using any spray, but sometimes it is needed. Tilling isnt the end of the world, but it can be very damaging in certain instances. Especially when used in hilly/mountanous areas with little top soil.

I do however respectfully disagree with you saying it is more damaging. Farmers end up using pre-mergents anyway so the fields are being sprayed either way. Glyphosate is safer than pre-mergents. Thankfully there are very effective methods for hunters to use a notill programs and not have to use glyphosate or only use it once every few years.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I also agree that there are some benefits of going no till, but I am making no money off of anything I plant, and if I have a bad year due to drought its not going to sink my ship, so it quickly becomes a cost/benefit thing, and just for a couple of small food plots, it would never even out financially. Now, I could buy a no-till setup and start a business putting in food plots, but that not something I am interested in doing.

[stubborn1VT]

We'll see what the long term effects and unintended consequences of thousands (millions?) of acres of Roundup ready crops are.  I don't see how it can compare to the "damage" done by plowing.  I grew up in hill country.  If we were "killing the soil", then how did we grow corn, potatoes, sudan grass etc?

[G-Man]

mouldboard plowing when done in conjuntion with crop.rotation is fine especially in our area..now doing hundreds of thousands of acres allowing moisture to leave and create a dustbowl. an acre or. 2 or plowing isnt going to disrupt the soil enough to worry about in a food plot setting

[ATbuckhunter]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I also agree that there are some benefits of going no till, but I am making no money off of anything I plant, and if I have a bad year due to drought its not going to sink my ship, so it quickly becomes a cost/benefit thing, and just for a couple of small food plots, it would never even out financially. Now, I could buy a no-till setup and start a business putting in food plots, but that not something I am interested in doing.

All fair points. It does cost a lot to get into it and if you don't necissarily care for the benefits of it, then it might not be for you. Like you said its cost vs benefits thing so I compltely understand where you're coming from. Im not talking down to anyone who chooses to plant the traditional way, just presenting some facts and food for thought

[ATbuckhunter]

58 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

We'll see what the long term effects and unintended consequences of thousands (millions?) of acres of Roundup ready crops are.  I don't see how it can compare to the "damage" done by plowing.  I grew up in hill country.  If we were "killing the soil", then how did we grow corn, potatoes, sudan grass etc?

I definitely would like to see what kind of effects it will have long term, but I just cant see it being even close to many of the herbicides we use today. Ill explain a little about the damaging effects of ploughing. Before I get into it, just know im not saying that ploughing causes some irreversable damage or even enough damage to stop plants from growing. It just makes the plants work harder and take longer to grow

Plants naurally try to attract natural fungi to their roots, because they work in a symbiotic relationship. The fungi drastically increases the amount of water the plant can retain (many plants can not surive with out these fungal communities or have a harder time surviving with out it). In return the plants return the favor by providing carbohydrates and sugars it makes from photosynthesis. When you plough, you destroy  many of the fungal communities that are present in the soil naturally. This means it takes longer for the community to grow around the roots which is not good for the plant obviously. 

Ploughing also destroyes the root system left by the previous years crop and any other weeds in the area which is what helps keep soil integrity. This is why soil erosion orrurs in many places...especially in hilly areas. It also exposes soil to the sun which causes nutrients and moister to be evaporated from the soil which also makes it harder on the plant. It also removes a lot of the biodegreading organic material from the soil which acts as some of the best slow release nutrients the plants can get, which forces us to add fertalizer to the fields. 

Like i said before, ploughing wont cause you to have no growth, but the benefits of a no till system are clearly evident when looking at the facts. Not trying to pick on you or anything, but im just trying to present the things we have learned over countless studies. 

[stubborn1VT]

I'm tracking with all that.  Thanks for providing the info.  I'm hoping there is countless studies to show the unplanned side effects of spraying as much as we do in this day and age.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Spraying is all done. Put a heavy coat of gly and 2-4D down this afternoon. I’m gonna let it set for 2 weeks and then get the seed in the ground. Stopped at Turners yesterday and picked up fertilizer, winter rye, Ladino clover, rape, purple top turnips and Daikon radish. I also ended up with an extra 30lbs of Ladino clover seed that my buddy had left over from last year, so I’m going to seed all of my trails with that as well. 

When I do the tilling, my buddy offered to let me use his tiller, so I’m going to try that and see how it goes. Hopefully there won’t be too many rocks down there. I do T want to spend the day replacing shear pins lol. 

[NYBowhunter]

On 7/14/2018 at 4:17 PM, WNYBuckHunter said:

Just picked up the brush hog. Man that thing looks big on there lol. Gonna start mowing after dinner. 

Damn that mower looks bigger then the tractor. Nice rig.

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, NYBowhunter said:

Damn that mower looks bigger then the tractor. Nice rig.

Camera angle, looks like some of the fish pictures we see posted on here.

Edited July 28, 2018 by wolc123

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:18 AM, NYBowhunter said:

Damn that mower looks bigger then the tractor. Nice rig.

Thanks. Yeah it was just the angle the pic was taken from. It is a pretty long brush hog though.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Just got back from Nashville. Plots are looking ready to till. 

[LET EM GROW]

Man those are pretty pics, and there isn't even any groceries growing in them yet! lol 

[dbHunterNY]

in the farming community the choice to go to no-till is based on cost savings. you burn less fuel, no longer need a tractor with more HP required for plowing, and a bigger one in my mind is you don't have to pick rocks.  you work a field deep only the first time when it's sod.  for my whole life time i've seen plantings grow plenty well enough without no-till.  i'm with stubborn1vt when we should be more concerned about all the chemicals we use than tilling up dirt too much. that's the reason we have all these issues like gluten free needs, celiac, and others.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, LET EM GROW said:

Man those are pretty pics, and there isn't even any groceries growing in them yet! lol 

They really are gorgeous settings. We have alot of silver birch around them, which makes for nice scenery. I cant wait to spend some days in the stand back there.

[LET EM GROW]

46 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

They really are gorgeous settings. We have alot of silver birch around them, which makes for nice scenery. I cant wait to spend some days in the stand back there.

I cant wait to see more pictures when its green and lush.  Especially when Bullwinkle is standing in the mix, and or laying on his side, retired!! lol 

Idk what it is about most food plot pics, i just love em lol I have a few white birch around one of mine too, sure are pretty trees.

Edited August 1, 2018 by LET EM GROW

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

I cant wait to see more pictures when its green and lush.  Especially when Bullwinkle is standing in the mix, and or laying on his side, retired!! lol 

Idk what it is about most food plot pics, i just love em lol I have a few white birch around one of mine too, sure are pretty trees.

I captured a trail cam pic of what looks to be bullwinkle on the edge of the large plot. It was a long distance shot from my Spypoint cell cam, and with the relatively low resolution on it, its impossible to see exactly what he is. Looked like lots of mass and out past the ears though. The bucks in this area typically get lots of mass and good height, just not alot of width.

My gf's ex hunts a couple of properties over, heres his buck from last year on opening day of gun. The one he took the year before that was a 130s 8 point IIRC.

[LET EM GROW]

Beauty!

That is nice to see, your month in, improving grounds, and a stud shows up! Im sure he'll be back with an appetite soon!  I know you dont put your live bucks on here much, same with me. But feel free to post up them plot pics lol. 

I just won a Spypoint cell cam few months ago, just got it setup.. will put it out today i think.. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

39 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

Beauty!

That is nice to see, your month in, improving grounds, and a stud shows up! Im sure he'll be back with an appetite soon!  I know you dont put your live bucks on here much, same with me. But feel free to post up them plot pics lol. 

I just won a Spypoint cell cam few months ago, just got it setup.. will put it out today i think.. 

Yeah I dont post em till they are dead, but my plot pics will continue!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ground has been broken

[stubborn1VT]

Nice to see the pics. Looking forward to the "after" pics.  Looks like the tractor pulled those plows alright.

[WNYBuckHunter]

25 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Nice to see the pics. Looking forward to the "after" pics.  Looks like the tractor pulled those plows alright.

Yeah it didn’t do too bad. Only went through 5 shear pins. Not bad for never broke ground. The ground is actually quite a bit wetter than I thought It would be, so I’m letting it sit tonight and then I’ll disc tomorrow morning. Not a ton of rocks but I’ll do some picking before I start With the disc. What rocks there are, are pretty big. Don’t want to bust up my buddy’s equipment.